Help me build a rig (prog metal project)

[progmetalhead]

Hello,

Over the past several years, I've been cobbling together ideas for a progressive metal album (so it's not just a clever name, I'm sure you're thinking). It's now time to piece together the appropriate rig for the job. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a gearhead, although I do know the sound I'm after (yes, this is where you come in).

I currently have no gear of any value. Consequently, I will be starting anew and I will be needing a new guitar & pickups, new amp, and the appropriate effects. Cost isn't much of an issue for me; I'm willing to pay extra to get the right timbres.

The tone I'm looking for is a modern progressive metal tone. I need the low-end riffs to be reasonably tight, but I also need the ability to unleash huge, elemental power chords. A keyword in describing the tone I want is "organic". I want to stay away from over synthetic tones as much as possible.

Here are some songs I feel that close in on the tone I want:

To-mera’s “Glory of a New Day”
This song is probably the closest approximation to what I envision my rig to sound like.

Linear Sphere’s “From Space to Time”.
I unfortunately can’t find a youtube link for this. However if you own this mp3, 2:08-2:45 is some of the sickest sounding riffing I’ve ever heard.

Power of Omens’ “Toast to Mankind”
Here’s another song I really like the rhythm tone of, although I wouldn't use that much compression in my project.

Ok, hopefully you get the gist of the aesthetic I'm trying to achieve. If you have any insight or suggestion to get tones like this please let me know (from strings, to guitar models, to wood selection, to pickups, to amps, to mics, to whatever).

I have another minor concern. I want to get a saturated sound at low volumes (I'll probably be recording the demo at home). Any thoughts here?

Thank you.

 

[Andromalia]

I'll spare you the 'get an axe fx' tirade if you're not very familiar with how amps work for now.

I'd say get either a Mark 5 or road king if you really have serious cash. Keep in mind however that versatile equipment comes with a downside: you must knwo what you're doing to get the tones because there are so many options. A less versatile amp will be simpler to dial.

As to guitars, practically anything can be used, it's more a matter of personal taste and guitar use history than a rule of thumb. You can do prog with an Ibanez, with a Gibson and with whatever you want. And with a JP, too, of course.

Now the problem with the aforementioned amps will be getting good sounds at low volume, the mark will probably be better for this but you won't be able to record an album with good quality playing at bedroom levels without resorting to impulses and computer tricks.

You could also scrounge a mesa studio preamp paired with a 20:20 power amp but it would need some boost to achieve modern tones, and the power amp saturates quite early, you like it or not, matter of taste. That's gear I've had and it's hard to beat for the money. (Guess you can have both for 800ish$ in the US) Addup a Gmajor and you're set, with an additional noise gate if you plan to gig, but will be unnecessary at bedroom levels as the gmajor gate will be up to it.

 

[Adari]

In terms of guitars, go and try out as many as possible until you find a piece of wood that feels right in your hands. Once you have the right guitar, you can alter its sound to suit your style of music, by upgrading pickups etc.

Try as many amps as you can, and watch all of Ola Englund's Youtube videos (YouTube - fearedse's Channel), as he demonstrates amps to their full capability and shows how they fit in a mix.

To record at lower volumes, either buy an attenuator or turn down the preamp volume, while cranking the poweramp volume. This will give you nice tube saturation without damaging your ears.

 

[JPhoenix19]

...watch all of Ola Englund's Youtube videos (YouTube - fearedse's Channel), as he demonstrates amps to their full capability and shows how they fit in a mix.

Ola's videos are good, but he pretty much goes for one sound. So really, you're catching a glimpse at how each amp can handle 'his' sound.

From what I listened to of the clips you included, and based on your description, I'm going to recommend Mesa/Boogie as your amp of choice. IMO, there's no better choice for huge, blooming rhythm tones. Where you go from there depends on your budget. What tuning are you planning on using?

You mentioned wanting something that can do quiet, though, which is the problem with Mesa. As mentioned already an attenuator is probably your best bet for this since Mesas really need to be opened up to sound their best. Without regard to that, the Mark V is a great choice for rhythm and lead tones. It also has low power modes which can help you achieve great tones at lower volumes.

Ultimately, I'd recommend this if money is no object:

-Guitar with mahogany body and maple top for any tuning above B, and a basswood guitar for anything lower than B
-Mesa Mark V head
-a transparent overdrive pedal to focus the mid-range and control the low end.
-A transparent multi-fx unit for all your effects
-An oversize 2x12 cab with V30's for any tuning above C#, and a regular-sized 2x12 with V30's for anything lower than C#

 

[progmetalhead]

From what I listened to of the clips you included, and based on your description, I'm going to recommend Mesa/Boogie as your amp of choice. IMO, there's no better choice for huge, blooming rhythm tones. Where you go from there depends on your budget. What tuning are you planning on using?

I've been playing a 7 in standard tuning, although I have recently been thinking of tuning lower.

 

[adadglgmut]

+1 for the Mark V. It excells at prog stuff.
Actually, if you're already looking around that price range, see if you can get your hands on an invader. It definitely has a more organic quality.

 

[renzoip]

Have you checket out Marcel Coenen from Sun Caged??

He got great tone from his old rig which consisted in a Marshall JMP-1 preamp, a Mesa 2:95 power amp, and a Marshall 1960 Cab.

My old guitarist had the same exact set up and the tone was fantastic for what we were doing (Progressive Power Metal).

 

[Rook]

Here's a vote for the Mesa Roadster, I play exactly what you're describing with it. It'll do better with some fairly hot pickups in a reasonably bright guitar for the extra clarity.

PRS CE24 with DiMarzio Air Zone or D-Sonic (depending how aggressive you want it) and a PAF Pro in the neck would be awesome.

Seriously though, I play exactly what you want to with my Roadster. I use a 1991 Ibanez Universe, which tbh isn't ideal, it's not got a lot of midrange 'push', but when the volume gets up it starts getting pretty good.

 

[el_thwatez]

I need the low-end riffs to be reasonably tight, but I also need the ability to unleash huge, elemental power chords. A keyword in describing the tone I want is "organic". I want to stay away from over synthetic tones as much as possible.

Get a decent hi-gain amp such as Mesa suggested or a Randall (one of the modular ones) and don't put a tubescreamer in front of it

 

[teqnick]

I know you want organic, and what i'm about to suggest may sound whack as fuck, but check this:

ENGL Powerball v2.
Xotic BB pre
ISP Decimator

I know the powerball is extremely compressed , but it has a tight bottom and excels in clarity. Think about this, Scale the Summit has gotten an awesome proggy tone out of the Powerballs, so I'm sure that with some tweaking, anyone can. It's been shit on time after time, but I enjoyed it when I owned one. Consequently, i've also gotten my favorite axe-fx tones using the powerball.

Some guitars i'd look at are:

Used EBMM JP's(awesome guitar overall)

RGD 2127( What I currently have and LOVE. The baritone scale also helps with some tightness and clarity)

Ibanez J-Custom 8327, 8427, or 8527. They're harder to find, and a bit pricier, but I can't think of another production 7 that has this kind of quality, other than a BFR. I had the 6 string version of the 8427 and it was amazing in all aspects, the vine inlay just didn't work well with me. Definitely distracting, although pretty as fuck.


The Xotic BB as an overdrive allows for plenty of tone shaping. It has a gain, volume, treble, and bass control which is versatile. You can focus on certain frequencies and do a lot of tightening. From my personal experience, the bass knob adds a lot more thump , without muddying up your tone. The treble knob adds a bit of brightness, but doesn't make it harsh or overly honkey. It's my favorite OD thus far and comes at a reasonable price.

Lastly comes pickups. The stock JP pickups are rad no matter what, but If you end up with something else and want to do a swap, here's are my recommendations.

BKP Ceramic Nailbomb is by far my favorite pickup for all sorts of things. It isn't as upper-mid focused as the Painkiller, but can get there if need be. It's extremely organic and clear with a bottom end that is also plenty tight. Again, it's not as tight as a painkiller or lundgren for that matter, but it's far more organic and versatile in my opinion. The PK can sound harsh and brittle in some guitars, and while I don't have experience with it in basswood, I didn't like it in walnut at all.

You could also see if Jim at WCR could wind you a 7 string pickup. I had the 6 string Godwood in my Horus HGS, and it was a very warm articulate pickup with tightness similar to the C-bomb. It's a low output alnico pickup, but I was thoroughly impressed. It is about 50 more than a BKP, but an often overlooked contender.

Another factor would be the cab you run through, but that doesn't seem to be of a concern to you at this point, but I can come back and chime in on that later

Good luck!

 

[dickandsmithh]

PRS all the way. They sound good tuned low and high. Never played one that couldn't play multiple genres. Just my two cents

 

[goldsteinat0r]

PRS all the way. They sound good tuned low and high. Never played one that couldn't play multiple genres. Just my two cents

BTBAM uses these, along with tons of other prog guitar greats.

Run it through a Mesa Dual rec with an oversized cab and you have a starting point for the tone you're after.