Help required for new rig/setup

[Blind Faith]

I have recently sold my Mesa MK IV and cab, they were very rarely used as only play in the house now.
I was looking into using some of the money to change my set up.
£1000 or so for a simple yet decent home set up is that manageable these days?
I've seen a lot of people using neural dsp stuff these days, what is required for that? Monitors, interface and the plugin? Easy enough just to plug in and jam? Or lots of tinkering?
Or a kemper + cab or could this be used with monitors?
Finally a lunch box head and 1x12" cabinet to keep it simple.
If doing one of these anything special required for recording?
I don't know where to start coming from a tube head and cab for the past 15 years.
Cheers

 

[Shask]

I will just say that I doubt you will be happy with software or FRFR if you played a tube head and cab for many years. It sounds and feels very different. It is like you are listening to a recording of an amp, instead of an actual amp. I know this drives me crazy, and I can't do it.

 

[Chebax]

I will just say that I doubt you will be happy with software or FRFR if you played a tube head and cab for many years. It sounds and feels very different. It is like you are listening to a recording of an amp, instead of an actual amp. I know this drives me crazy, and I can't do it.

Exactly, Kemper, Axe FX, Neural plugins... they will all sound great through good studio monitors, but they will sound like a recording of an amp, not like an amp. Which may or may not work for you. You'll be missing the amp in the room feeling, but it will blend much better if you play with a backing tack, for example. Plus, you can use them with headphones.

Neural DSP plugins with some decent monitors is probably the cheapest option, and they sound great. Personally, my issue with plugins is that I can't get over the latency. This will change depending on your setup (mine is admittedly old), but in my case the feeling is not as good as my Kemper in terms of responsiveness. It's just a tiny little difference, bit it's there and it annoys me.

I was also going to say that the market is full with really nice load boxes nowadays, but I see you've already sold your mkIV so that might not be an option anymore.

 

[Blind Faith]

Thanks for the replies, still doing my research. Hard to test anything out without taking the plunge.

 

[Blind Faith]

Think I may go for a mini head + 1x10/12 cabinet, some pedals, monitors + replace my K240 headphones with the money from the MKiv
Quite like the look of the Peavey incentive MH or 5150 iii EL34, will update once things happen

 

[budda]

I went tube with digital fx to all digital, and the "recorded amp tone" has not been something I have really noticed. That said I have an axe fx 3, which was IMO an upgrade over my helix lt.

Can you try the mini heads first?

 

[c7spheres]

I went tube with digital fx to all digital, and the "recorded amp tone" has not been something I have really noticed. That said I have an axe fx 3, which was IMO an upgrade over my helix lt.

Can you try the mini heads first?

Sorry to hijack your thread, though what I ask might help.
- Hey budda, I ask your opinion on the AxeFx III and how you like it regarding feel and response while playing it. Does it feel like a tube amp setup, more solid state-like, or different? Are you missing anything regarding feel or breakup realated to dynamics etc? Where does it fall short compared to tube amp, if at all? _ I've been kicking tires on the AxeFxIII.

 

[vilk]

There's a lot of cool ~20w~ amps out there these days that have power scaling built in, so you can play at home or with a band. I have a Marshall Origin 20w head that I like, and they are cheap as dirt. But Orange has dozens, Marshall has a few other types, Peavey, EVH, ENGL, Victory, Mesa, Fortin, Egnater... it seems like everyone has a mini amp head selection these days. And that's definitely not a complaint!


There are lots of digital options. But I just hate menu diving and adjusting controls that aren't actually set on what they appear to be set at, my computer is iffy about even starting up and running basic programs... I'm just a caveman. Give me master, gain, 3-band eq, and a power switch. I don't even need two channels.

I'm always tempted by those Bluguitar amps... But they're 100 freaking watts. Is there any sort of power scaling built into that? I worry I'll be having to finesse the master volume by microns to try and dial in apartment volume.

 

[budda]

Hey budda, I ask your opinion on the AxeFx III and how you like it regarding feel and response while playing it. Does it feel like a tube amp setup, more solid state-like, or different? Are you missing anything regarding feel or breakup realated to dynamics etc? Where does it fall short compared to tube amp, if at all? _ I've been kicking tires on the AxeFxIII.

I love it. Really wish I had one for touring instead of a JCM800, twin and PPC412 .

I don't notice any different feel than when I play any amps in person. Some people talk about immediacy and sag and all that, and half of those are things you can adjust in the deeper editing functions. For me, it doesn't feel any different than when I plug into a 6505 at a store, or my 2203 or twin at jams (since sold). I run it into a powered cab, and have mackie CR4's for playback for tracking ideas. TL/DR at no point did I go "damn, this thing doesn't sound like the tube amps I'm used to".

I don't miss any of the amps I've had at all, because I have even more flexibility and routing options within the unit. My first personal preset was a clean fender, a plexi and a 6505 . When you know what you like already, it's pretty easy to get things going. There are some useful factory presets too. If I want roaring vintage marshall sounds, I can get them pretty easily. If I want pushed clean tones with a massive reverb, it takes minutes. None of the tones I've dialled in have gotten much tweaking afterwards - mostly levelling to not clip the DAW.

Really I just wish I had done it sooner, but circumstances dictated I couldn't. I've gone to one jam with my jazzmaster and was pleased to learn my preset translated to higher volumes pretty well. Once I join another band, I'll figure out what guitar(s) to use and build presets for that specifically. I liked my Helix LT, and had my brother as a resource for dialling in tones and borrowing patches, but the second I fired up the III it was the "aha!" moment.

Can't say I miss tube amps. I have as fine a digital recreation of them as it's possible to get, and I'm quite content. Add in the updates, the tutorials (Leon Todd videos help a great deal) and the usefulness of the FAS forum and it's a big win IMHO.

Edit: @vilk you can indeed set up the axe fx to be gain, volume and 3-band EQ - and run it globally. It can get pretty simple if that's how you want to use it.

 

[c7spheres]

^ @budda , Thanks for the good info. I really appreciate that. Now I'm even more tempted : ) I'm gonnna at some point break down and get one with that 15day money back option, just in case, but first I'm gonna learn the ins and outs of the unit, buy it and program it right off the bat and play it. That way I don't spend the 15 days figuring out how to use it. Thanks again.

 

[budda]

^ @budda , Thanks for the good info. I really appreciate that. Now I'm even more tempted : ) I'm gonnna at some point break down and get one with that 15day money back option, just in case, but first I'm gonna learn the ins and outs of the unit, buy it and program it right off the bat and play it. That way I don't spend the 15 days figuring out how to use it. Thanks again.

Read the manual before you order (twice if you can), and look for any videos pertaining to features or tones you like on Leon Todd's YT channel. That said, it is pretty easy to get going (I use axe edit III a ton).

 

[Shask]

^ @budda , Thanks for the good info. I really appreciate that. Now I'm even more tempted : ) I'm gonnna at some point break down and get one with that 15day money back option, just in case, but first I'm gonna learn the ins and outs of the unit, buy it and program it right off the bat and play it. That way I don't spend the 15 days figuring out how to use it. Thanks again.

Don't you have a bunch of older rack gear? The Fractal stuff is easy as can be compared to older rack units, even with every effect having like 50 parameters, lol.

 

[Shask]

Sorry to hijack your thread, though what I ask might help.
- Hey budda, I ask your opinion on the AxeFx III and how you like it regarding feel and response while playing it. Does it feel like a tube amp setup, more solid state-like, or different? Are you missing anything regarding feel or breakup realated to dynamics etc? Where does it fall short compared to tube amp, if at all? _ I've been kicking tires on the AxeFxIII.

I only have an Axe II, but I have always found that when I use it with a Matrix poweramp into guitar cabs, it is ALMOST there.... you can dial it in to have great feel and tone. The one thing I find it lacking is the low end response. There is something about the way a 5150 or Recto or something chugs with you. You just feel the low end move with you, and I find that very hard to duplicate on the Axe. Most other things I find I can dial in well. If anything, I think the Axe versions tend to be clearer and tighter than the real thing. Keep in mind I have had mine for 7 years now, and it took me many years before I found tiny subtleties that bugged me.

I never play mine FRFR though. I could never get into that. Maybe if I had a giant PA with high volume, but that kind of defeats the purpose for my needs.

The routing is, of course, second to none. The effects are awesome. I have actually started messing with mine lately in a new capacity... as an effects unit for my tube amps. I plan on messing with 4CM here sometime during this quarantine, lol.

 

[c7spheres]

Read the manual before you order (twice if you can), and look for any videos pertaining to features or tones you like on Leon Todd's YT channel. That said, it is pretty easy to get going (I use axe edit III a ton).

Oh yeah, I've been scanning it many times over now. I like Leon Todd vids and other people on there doing stuff too. Good info and nice to see it a bit beforehand.

Don't you have a bunch of older rack gear? The Fractal stuff is easy as can be compared to older rack units, even with every effect having like 50 parameters, lol.

- Yep, I gotta big rack thing goinig on. It's far more complex than an AxeFx setup for sure. I'm familiar with all the old Eventide, Lexicon, Tc etc. So this stuff really looks like a cake walk, which is sure a welcome sight. It should be pretty easy to get up and running with it I'd think. My current rack is crazy with mult-preamps and channel and loop switching and custom midi programming using Midi Solutions boxes etc. to make it work smoothly, and it works great. I just really like the idea of all the potential issues and cabling it eliminates. Not to mention the drastic space and weight saving aspects. We've always dreamed of the "magic box" for guitar and this is as close as it's ever been.
- I'm just getting a "vision" of what I really wanna do when/if I get it.

I only have an Axe II, but I have always found that when I use it with a Matrix poweramp into guitar cabs, it is ALMOST there.... you can dial it in to have great feel and tone. The one thing I find it lacking is the low end response. There is something about the way a 5150 or Recto or something chugs with you. You just feel the low end move with you, and I find that very hard to duplicate on the Axe. Most other things I find I can dial in well. If anything, I think the Axe versions tend to be clearer and tighter than the real thing. Keep in mind I have had mine for 7 years now, and it took me many years before I found tiny subtleties that bugged me.

I never play mine FRFR though. I could never get into that. Maybe if I had a giant PA with high volume, but that kind of defeats the purpose for my needs.

The routing is, of course, second to none. The effects are awesome. I have actually started messing with mine lately in a new capacity... as an effects unit for my tube amps. I plan on messing with 4CM here sometime during this quarantine, lol.

- I'm thinking I would likely use it with my VHT 2-50-2 and turn off the cab blocks and IR's. One massive overkill of a preamp. I would probably experiment with those more for recording and live sounds. Even then I have my MotherLoad Pro boxes which are damn nice, but If I ever get to playing shows or recording again in the future I'd likely bust out the IR's and cab blocks to experiment with,m Or even for headphone jamming so I don't have to power on the full rig and save elcetricity and tubes too.
- When I tried the XL+ for about 5-10 min one time, through my 2-50-2, I dialed in a Recto Tone that was very nice and surprising in that short time. The cab blocks were off too. I also noticed what you're talking about with it being tighter and the low end not the same, but it was so close I figured it could likely be perfected with some minimal tweaking. The thing is that the guy who was letting me try was there to try my 2-50-2 specifically with the Axe so he could tell if he wanted one. Before he tried it out he wanted to hear my full rig/Mesa setup. I let him plug his guitar in and only readjusted the Vht's Presence and Depth controls to get a quick balance. He was really blown away with it and didn't even care to try to adjust knobs. So he play on my rig for like an hour almost and I get 5 min on the AxeFx before he had to leave. It's funny because I was probably just as surprised with the Axe as he was with my rig : ) I would like more time on an Axe though. The convenience factor and lack of potential issues is so tempting. I'm also leaning towards other crazyness though like Skrydstrup or SoundSculpture switchers and some pedals. I'm just a mess this year with gas messing with me. I want an Aristides and other stuff too. I gotta think and choose carefully because I can't afford it all, just maybe one thing. I'll wait until I'm confident in my decisions for sure. Thanks for the input!

 

[Shask]

Oh yeah, I've been scanning it many times over now. I like Leon Todd vids and other people on there doing stuff too. Good info and nice to see it a bit beforehand.



- Yep, I gotta big rack thing goinig on. It's far more complex than an AxeFx setup for sure. I'm familiar with all the old Eventide, Lexicon, Tc etc. So this stuff really looks like a cake walk, which is sure a welcome sight. It should be pretty easy to get up and running with it I'd think. My current rack is crazy with mult-preamps and channel and loop switching and custom midi programming using Midi Solutions boxes etc. to make it work smoothly, and it works great. I just really like the idea of all the potential issues and cabling it eliminates. Not to mention the drastic space and weight saving aspects. We've always dreamed of the "magic box" for guitar and this is as close as it's ever been.
- I'm just getting a "vision" of what I really wanna do when/if I get it.



- I'm thinking I would likely use it with my VHT 2-50-2 and turn off the cab blocks and IR's. One massive overkill of a preamp. I would probably experiment with those more for recording and live sounds. Even then I have my MotherLoad Pro boxes which are damn nice, but If I ever get to playing shows or recording again in the future I'd likely bust out the IR's and cab blocks to experiment with,m Or even for headphone jamming so I don't have to power on the full rig and save elcetricity and tubes too.
- When I tried the XL+ for about 5-10 min one time, through my 2-50-2, I dialed in a Recto Tone that was very nice and surprising in that short time. The cab blocks were off too. I also noticed what you're talking about with it being tighter and the low end not the same, but it was so close I figured it could likely be perfected with some minimal tweaking. The thing is that the guy who was letting me try was there to try my 2-50-2 specifically with the Axe so he could tell if he wanted one. Before he tried it out he wanted to hear my full rig/Mesa setup. I let him plug his guitar in and only readjusted the Vht's Presence and Depth controls to get a quick balance. He was really blown away with it and didn't even care to try to adjust knobs. So he play on my rig for like an hour almost and I get 5 min on the AxeFx before he had to leave. It's funny because I was probably just as surprised with the Axe as he was with my rig : ) I would like more time on an Axe though. The convenience factor and lack of potential issues is so tempting. I'm also leaning towards other crazyness though like Skrydstrup or SoundSculpture switchers and some pedals. I'm just a mess this year with gas messing with me. I want an Aristides and other stuff too. I gotta think and choose carefully because I can't afford it all, just maybe one thing. I'll wait until I'm confident in my decisions for sure. Thanks for the input!

I have always considered getting a Mesa 2:90, or a Freyette LXII or something for mine. Some type of tube poweramp that has that proper dynamic impedance reaction to it that tubes have. Who knows, I may still do that one day, lol. I have tried it into the poweramps of my various tube amps, a Triple Recto, XXX, etc... and get some good results, but of course, you have to pick a rig and stick with it because you have to re-tweak for everything. I am bad at that, lol. I like to switch stuff around constantly just for the fun of it. Sometimes it gets old tweaking the Axe for every different guitar I use, or poweramp, or cab or whatever. Here lately I have been enjoying the simplicity of the 5150 III 50W. I got recently. I have been using it with a G Major 2, or Intellifex. I would say the biggest thing I miss when I don't use the Axe is the stereo aspect. It is easy to get huge sounds at low volumes with the Axe and 2 cabs.

The Axe is an amazing piece of gear. No doubt about that. I have considered trading up to a III also. I just think there is still something about just jamming on a big tube amp that the Axe can't duplicate yet. I like both, and go back and forth all the time.

 

[c7spheres]

I have always considered getting a Mesa 2:90, or a Freyette LXII or something for mine. Some type of tube poweramp that has that proper dynamic impedance reaction to it that tubes have. Who knows, I may still do that one day, lol. I have tried it into the poweramps of my various tube amps, a Triple Recto, XXX, etc... and get some good results, but of course, you have to pick a rig and stick with it because you have to re-tweak for everything. I am bad at that, lol. I like to switch stuff around constantly just for the fun of it. Sometimes it gets old tweaking the Axe for every different guitar I use, or poweramp, or cab or whatever. Here lately I have been enjoying the simplicity of the 5150 III 50W. I got recently. I have been using it with a G Major 2, or Intellifex. I would say the biggest thing I miss when I don't use the Axe is the stereo aspect. It is easy to get huge sounds at low volumes with the Axe and 2 cabs.

The Axe is an amazing piece of gear. No doubt about that. I have considered trading up to a III also. I just think there is still something about just jamming on a big tube amp that the Axe can't duplicate yet. I like both, and go back and forth all the time.

- What's odd to me is that even with the mighty AxeFx III, it doesn't have models of the preamp or power amp I use, or the type of speakers I use either, and it doesn't position effects between the virtual preamp and power amp sections either, which is where I put my effects too! : )
- It has stuff that's close to it, like a Recto, and it has VHT heads and routing abilitys and even an EVM speaker too, which are all very similar, but it can't decouple them and drive the VHT power sections with the Recto preamp or something like that. Accordinng to the Wiki pages it's possible but would take like 8x the procesing power to do this kind of stuff so it's not happening any time soon. - I've also heard that it might give away some secret how Fractal does their models if they made it possible or something. I dunno. I know it also says there's ways to simulate decoupling them too.
- Either way I know there's good tones in this AxeFx unit. I just find it kinda funny withall the stuff it has it doesn't have a single thing I use. I don't have my wah either : ) I'm running a stereo rig myself. If I want to switch to mono I can do summed mono setup in literally about 5 seconds via the Replifex internal global settings. handy dandy.
- Someday I'll bite the bullet and check it out. Program it and start the tests. I'm thinking buy then the IV will probably be out or something.

 

[Shask]

- What's odd to me is that even with the mighty AxeFx III, it doesn't have models of the preamp or power amp I use, or the type of speakers I use either, and it doesn't position effects between the virtual preamp and power amp sections either, which is where I put my effects too! : )
- It has stuff that's close to it, like a Recto, and it has VHT heads and routing abilitys and even an EVM speaker too, which are all very similar, but it can't decouple them and drive the VHT power sections with the Recto preamp or something like that. Accordinng to the Wiki pages it's possible but would take like 8x the procesing power to do this kind of stuff so it's not happening any time soon. - I've also heard that it might give away some secret how Fractal does their models if they made it possible or something. I dunno. I know it also says there's ways to simulate decoupling them too.
- Either way I know there's good tones in this AxeFx unit. I just find it kinda funny withall the stuff it has it doesn't have a single thing I use. I don't have my wah either : ) I'm running a stereo rig myself. If I want to switch to mono I can do summed mono setup in literally about 5 seconds via the Replifex internal global settings. handy dandy.
- Someday I'll bite the bullet and check it out. Program it and start the tests. I'm thinking buy then the IV will probably be out or something.

The III does have new impedance curves, and a "SS Poweramp mode", so between those, maybe the III is closer than the II that I have, but I am not sure.

You can change the power tube type in the amp, and all the settings that go along with it, so you might get something by doing that. Yeah, Fractal wont separate the preamp and poweramp modeling.

 

[c7spheres]

The III does have new impedance curves, and a "SS Poweramp mode", so between those, maybe the III is closer than the II that I have, but I am not sure.

You can change the power tube type in the amp, and all the settings that go along with it, so you might get something by doing that. Yeah, Fractal wont separate the preamp and poweramp modeling.

It's really cool stuff what they're doing with these new units. I'm not a stickler on getting my exact tone, just good stuff which I know is in there already. My interests got peaked again because of the improvements to the switching speeds and and the addtional looper time of over 5 min. I figured if I'm looking at loopers and want the high quality with the midi compatibility it's gonna cost at least half of what an AxeIII does after you add up all the extra stuff like parallel mixing, remote upgrades, cables etc. For the looper alone and extra silent jam and record features the AxeFxII is looking friendly. I was looking at the FM3 too but I dunno. I like alot of the extras the III has that the FM3 don't. I like that it's ineveitable the price will only come down on all this stuff, but then flip side of that coin is that your investment goes down too, which to me doens't matter that much with computer stuff, but the getting parts for repair is going to be an issue when that happens eventually. It's all part of the game. The trick is to not use features that only that unit has so you aren't left paralyzed if you lose the use of given unit. This is the appeal of a basic head and couple pedals setup for sure. I got my effects fill after owning the h7600 for a short time. It's funny how you can come full circle and just be a delay reverb guy who occasionally uses rotoary, wah and volume controls. I do like loopers though : )

 

[budda]

@c7spheres if you do get the III, get a cheaper FRFR setup and try it out as it was meant to be heard.

I was going to go power amp and use my 412, but between the lighter setup of a 112 and the fact that it was designed to run FRFR, I opted for the power cab.

99% of guitar tones that people covet is the sound of a mic'd speaker. Even a live record is still a mic'd sound. The whole "it doesn't nail the amp in the room sound" argument is lost on me .

I suggest getting one and seeing how you gel.