Hmmm... Musical education...

[subscorpion94]

Hey all, so on my journey to high five dimebags beautiful spirit through the power of guitar, I've come a fork in a road.

Im turning 20 in a week, and while ive taken the past two years off to help keep the house up (built myself a nice little fine dining resumee too!) I think I'm finally ready to go to school. But between the two choices, I can never stick to an answer i give myself. The choices are as follows:

1) Attend a college of jazz studies. leave my school of choice with the power of guthrie govans right testicle or maybe tosin abasis turd (but still... ). I've always been jazz trained, back in high school I was in the jazz band for guitar and was voted musician of they year. So it would make sense, right? I love jazz, and i truly see the stylistics of jazz and just the whole mentality (as opposed to someone who composes, say, classically) better suited to me.

pros: Id leave school 4 years later, a badass. and ill meet some sick bandmates!
cons: ill be around 30k in debt, so ill be a broke badass.

2) attend a recording and producing school. A local, and reputable school (the IAR, in mid-downtown manhattan) is offering courses not only in basic theory, but of course in recording and production, while at the same time offering music business classes.

pros: ill have a much more wide understanding about the different aspects of music, professional self-production, maybe (?) meet bandmates. I make enough money to pay as I go here, so ill leave with my money in my pocket! Its also only 2 years.
cons: i wont be super frickin' sweet at jazz improv. Credits dont transfer to other colleges (from what I understand)

also note that with option 2, during my years of study I will also be taking guitar lessons, something I havent done all my life (im self tought). And after both options, I plan on travelling the states and eventually the world, working restaurant to restaurant, learning guitar from masters around the world, and on the everlasting quest for bandmates.

sometimes I feel one option is the obvious choice, and sometimes its the other... to the point where i sent out applications for both and decided to let them race it out! but now i have the last few months to think about what i did ;D.

What would Misha do?

 

[stevexc]

Here's my advice. I went through jazz college, and have a number of friends that did recording in school.

Unless you have some other scheme for making money, or are fine working hourly jobs and living off of ramen, jazz school isn't going to leave with with any real world marketable skills. Sure, you'll come out a better musician, but that doesn't pay the bills.

From all my bros in recording studios, I've learned that there's not a huge benefit to going to school for it. You're much better off going to a recording studio and interning, you'll get to the same point but minus the debt.

In all honesty, I wouldn't do either. But that's just me and my experience.

 

[abandonist]

I agree, they're both bad choices.

Learn a trade.

 

[7stg]

They are both bad choices. Go to school for something that can make money that you like, then you can buy all the music gear and education you want later. Start at the junior college, it is less expensive, and English 101 is English 101 regardless of how much you pay for it. Controlling the cost of college and the quality of education are the 2 biggest objectives in pursuing learning.

I always recommend taking business classes because you are going to be working for a business or running a business. Fill your electives with music classes or get a minor or 2nd major in music.

 

[Svava]

It is necessary to make good money to have a comfortable living these days, but I have decided that it is not worth sacrificing happiness for comfort/success whatever.


I'd rather be a human being than a human doing any day. Do what you love and do it well, the rest will sort itself out.

 

[Nats]

3) become an electrician

 

[stevexc]

It is necessary to make good money to have a comfortable living these days, but I have decided that it is not worth sacrificing happiness for comfort/success whatever.


I'd rather be a human being than a human doing any day. Do what you love and do it well, the rest will sort itself out.

What I wound up doing is I found something I enjoy doing that pays the bills, allowing me to do all the other stuff I love - like music.

Either way, the point isn't to do what makes you money, the point is if you're going to invest, invest in something that pays off.

 

[subscorpion94]

Hey all, thanks for the replies .

I am a michelin fine dining waiter by trade, on which i make good money and I can only make more and more moving up. One of the reasons I decided to do so was to be able to travel anywhere in the world and, provided I have a grasp of the local language, confidently assume I'll get a job (I've already worked with some big culinary names and such, its pretty cool ) This of course, was to embark on my spiritual guitar journey learning tour of the planet mentioned in the original post hehe.

Of course this is all for the meanwhile, as my true dreams and my life is committed to break in the music business, ultimately a touring musician. Friends in the business tell me, It's a bitch, but if there's a will, there's a way and in this case there's a plan and a certain amount of connections too, so I'm pretty confident throwing my eggs collection in this basket

My next moves were interning at a label, or a studio, and just engrossing myself in the business

I do feel as I need some certification though, it's a nice notch on the resumee and its professional education, of which whichever can provide proper connections, facilities. It's certified credibility, and can put some doubt for whoever wants to hire me, for whatever aspect i can get into, which only leads to more connections and more experience, and it seems ill be going in circles if i keep typing

the true question here is: would i be better off with recording school and private lessons or college jazz? I'll roll the dice, knowing it might just all be for s..t but either would only make me happier

 

[7stg]

Clarify a college of jazz studies. Would that be a formal university like this- Jazz Studies | MSU College of Music.

If so, do that and minor in business. Start at the junior college then transfer into the university, same classes less money and you get what you put into it.

 

[subscorpion94]

well, to clarify, ive applied to about 5 or 6

Hunter college
queens college
city college

and so forth... all have their own, well respected music programs

the actual designated jazz school here in the city seems to be the manhattan academy of music, which i can neither afford with or without help, and probobly cant get into it at this point in my playing, ive taken some classes there and while I walked away with some understanding, the thing i understood the most was that these kids are on another level of jazz haha

 

[abandonist]

Hey all, thanks for the replies .

I am a michelin fine dining waiter by trade, on which i make good money and I can only make more and more moving up. One of the reasons I decided to do so was to be able to travel anywhere in the world and, provided I have a grasp of the local language, confidently assume I'll get a job (I've already worked with some big culinary names and such, its pretty cool )

Serving at high levels without being a native is extremely unlikely in other countries. Where do/have you worked?

I'm a chef and I may know some of your bosses.

 

[wankerness]

Be a jazz major and get teaching certification at the same time. You won't be "rich" but you probably wouldn't be no matter what you majored in, and being able to teach music will at least be able to land you jobs right out of college, even if it's just sub jobs for a while, plus you'd actually be playing music, which would be far less likely to make you want to kill yourself than if you major in business or something and thus spend 8+ hours a day doing something you don't care about +commute +meals = maybe 4 hours a day you could possibly spend on music if you aren't exhausted from your crappy job and don't have a family you have to care for. With music education you'd actually be doing something you enjoy plus you'd be able to share your enthusiasm with students, even if they're not the greatest students in the world that's going to be a lot more fulfilling than working some desk job to fund a bunch of amps that mostly end up gathering dust.

Being a touring musician is a pretty rough goal, especially as a guitarist, but music education is very attainable and at least would be something of a stepping stone instead of a blatant impediment like most other jobs.

I'm sort of surprised at all the advice "MAJOR IN SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE YOU MONEY LIKE BUSINESS," countless meatheads major in business and thus due to major inflation it's barely better than one in the humanities at this point. Getting a decent job in "business" is mostly about what connections you have instead of what you majored in.

 

[7stg]

My advise to minor in business is because it will bring an understanding of how and why a business operates. In music there is an entrepreneurial side of things that one will benefit knowing how to manage everything from their books to their marketing campaign, basically everything that goes along with playing music that's not playing music. Also, in teaching it can help with understanding things at the administration, principals, and district office levels. As I see it, business is not the best first major but a great minor or 2nd major to go along with a primary major as the above ideas can be applied to any other field.

In a more idealistic sense, what I would consider money making degrees would be typically science and math related like engineering, technical design, computer science, medical trades nursing, trades like electrical, plumbing, hvac, other technical repair type jobs, and mechanics are all good. There are more options than these to choose from, just got to find one you like.

National Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates United States here is the data in a spreadsheet here is a deeper look with spreadsheets that break it down by Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Areas here.

 

[wankerness]

My advise to minor in business is because it will bring an understanding of how and why a business operates. In music there is an entrepreneurial side of things that one will benefit knowing how to manage everything from their books to their marketing campaign, basically everything that goes along with playing music that's not playing music. Also, in teaching it can help with understanding things at the administration, principals, and district office levels. As I see it, business is not the best first major but a great minor or 2nd major to go along with a primary major as the above ideas can be applied to any other field.

In a more idealistic sense, what I would consider money making degrees would be typically science and math related like engineering, technical design, computer science, medical trades nursing, trades like electrical, plumbing, hvac, other technical repair type jobs, and mechanics are all good. There are more options than these to choose from, just got to find one you like.

National Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates United States here is the data in a spreadsheet here is a deeper look with spreadsheets that break it down by Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Areas here.

Yes, this is good advice.

 

[subscorpion94]

Serving at high levels without being a native is extremely unlikely in other countries. Where do/have you worked?

I'm a chef and I may know some of your bosses.

The most notable names i've worked with are David Bouley, John Fraser, and Nick Pfannerstill.

on that note, for a good decade or so, my quest will have me all around the states, canada, Poland (my native country) and then probobly France (already speak a bit of it, its all a matter of expanding my vocabulary by now)

 

[GunpointMetal]

Here's my advice. I went through jazz college, and have a number of friends that did recording in school.

Unless you have some other scheme for making money, or are fine working hourly jobs and living off of ramen, jazz school isn't going to leave with with any real world marketable skills. Sure, you'll come out a better musician, but that doesn't pay the bills.

From all my bros in recording studios, I've learned that there's not a huge benefit to going to school for it. You're much better off going to a recording studio and interning, you'll get to the same point but minus the debt.

In all honesty, I wouldn't do either. But that's just me and my experience.

As someone who went to audio engineering school I can tell from my instructors that you're just as likely to end up making money recording by setting up and running a home studio as you are going to school and trying to a find a job in the field, and even then your first five "jobs" will probably cleaning up rockstar puke and making coffee in some commercial studio facility (according to my then instructors)

 

[ElectricEelChair]

I studied music in college, was "jazz trained" I guess you could say (although I really only cared about metal <3). I was even pretty good, one of the more advanced students there. I expected all kinds of opportunities in music to open up while I was going to school but nothing happened. I graduated thinking "well I wont make $infinitykrillion/year in music but at least ill be doing what I love". How right I was! But I didn't fully realize the depth of the consequences until I struggled finding a job and had to work at fkn taco bell. Now im going back to school for nursing cause I KNOW there will be a good, well paying job waiting for me. Yes, I have an extensive knowledge in music theory and all that, but that doesnt mean ill find a decent job. And guess what, your music isn't going anywhere. You can ALWAYS play and learn more without going to a fancy music school.
-my recommendation: minor in music and take lessons. You'll get all the useful theory knowledge you need to be a better player. You wont make the connections you think you will, unless you're at Berklee. Study something that will pay the bills!

 

[ElectricEelChair]

Haha thanks for the spelling catch!

 

[Coma Cluster Void]

Study contemporary music privately, avoid class rooms, listening is a good start: https://www.facebook.com/DissonanceIsAwesome

 

[fps]

I would get a degree in something that can be used to have a career, and study music and recording in your spare time.