How do you make guitars punchy?

[Jahka]

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[Jahka]

I have been into death metal for a while, and I want to make my guitars sound punchy without going di. Right now they sound kinda sound anemic like so [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jahkadimension/multidimensional-antennaa-dissipating-romance[/SC]

And I would like to change that!!!!! Right now I amp my guitar with two condenser mics, then I add mono comps to each track to give it a slight boost, and add a de-esser and or a transient shaper so it doesn't sound too harsh. My ideal tone is soft and a mix of this guitar tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM4t-Jxq5_o

with vildhjarta's tone and the faceless's tone.

The goal in mind is to make the guitars punch, and have a nice soft tone for open strings to resonate without sounding muddy or evasive to the ears and without stealing the emotional quirks that come with playing (perfection is not my aim). If you have any ideas please share them! Thanks![/QUOTE]

 

[isispelican]

tight playing and a good kick drum sound

 

[PlumbTheDerps]

and add a de-esser and or a transient shaper so it doesn't sound too harsh

I would not do either of those things under any circumstances.

New strings, tight playing, screamer pedal, appropriate choice and/or blending of mics, good cab, good mic positioning, decent room, and careful tweaking of amp controls will get you there. Not necessarily the answer everyone wants to hear, but it's true. There's no magic. High pass filter at 80, low pass filter at 10000, maybe a small cut around 200-300 hz and a small boost around 1300 hz and that should be it.

Compression is only really useful (a) in miniscule amounts to tighten things up, or (b) to solve problems, like an overly boomy cab. De-esser and transient shapers make no sense and are not at all suited to high-gain guitars.

 

[Jahka]

I would not do either of those things under any circumstances.

New strings, tight playing, screamer pedal, appropriate choice and/or blending of mics, good cab, good mic positioning, decent room, and careful tweaking of amp controls will get you there. Not necessarily the answer everyone wants to hear, but it's true. There's no magic. High pass filter at 80, low pass filter at 10000, maybe a small cut around 200-300 hz and a small boost around 1300 hz and that should be it.

Compression is only really useful (a) in miniscule amounts to tighten things up, or (b) to solve problems, like an overly boomy cab. De-esser and transient shapers make no sense and are not at all suited to high-gain guitars.

Sweet thanks. What if the guitars are too harsh in the high end??? Or will the lowpass cover that?

 

[TedEH]

Sweet thanks. What if the guitars are too harsh in the high end??? Or will the lowpass cover that?

You want to try to get the signal coming in to sound as good as possible before having to do any processing. That means if your signal is too harsh, you need to dial that out from the amp, or possibly move the mics around so that you pick up a different balance of what comes out of your speaker. Processing is meant to make reasonable corrections, not to do any real tone-shaping.

It might be worth considering your mic choice as well. Maybe a 57 is better suited to the task than condensers. My favorite condenser at home sounds pretty terrible for high-gain guitar.

 

[PlumbTheDerps]

Sweet thanks. What if the guitars are too harsh in the high end??? Or will the lowpass cover that?

Exactly what TedEH ^^^ said above. Just buy an SM57 instead of a condenser mic; there's a reason they're the industry standard for guitars. Second, you need to play with the mic position and angle and amp settings until it sounds good. I will say I tend to leave a tiny bit more high-end hairiness in my tone than might sound ideal, because you're going to low-pass it out anyway and it adds to the crunchiness in the end product. But it should still sound balanced. Check out Ola Englund/Keith Merrow gear reviews and listen to what their isolated guitar tracks sound like. Find guitar-only sections in well-produced metal albums and clip them in your DAW as reference tracks.

 

[Jahka]

Thanks guys. I actually own a 58, however, I do not like the tone that it picks up from my amp. The condensers sound softer and more pleasing to my ears, and I haven't even used my od pedal on my signal so that should push things up. I guess I've been so obsessed with finding my own tone that I've been over processing the shit out of my guitars. I will try to perfect my amp tone before recording, the only problem is that my amp is next to my monitors so I can't hear live difference between the two... that's the part that pisses me off. Does anybody have any recommendations for my amp placement situation?

 

[Raindrop Collector]

Hey hey, someone else who mics up amps, I didn't know too many existed here!

To solve that amp situation, put it in a closet if you have one handy! You basically need to isolate yourself from the amp, and then test out different mic techniques/what have you to get to sound you like. A lot of it is an excruciatingly boring/monotonous process of trial and error, but when you get a sound you like you'll know it was worth the effort!

As far my two cents regarding guitar "tightness":

Cut the gain on your amp down-especially if you're planning on using a boost in front! I've found through experience that the heaviest tones come from super-clear, responsive, guitar tones at the source... coupled with a NASTY bass.

Along with the tight-tracking recommendation, I'd also recommend to look at what the bass and kick drum are doing. A great deal of that "punchiness" is a combination of well compressed kick-drum sounds, along with unison bass/guitar lines inhaling and exhaling at the same time. I'd also recommend refraining from any guitar compression till after the mixing stage, as the master buss compression used typically should provide enough of an effect to get that "punch" perceived.

For my own personal micing setups, I actually use an SM58 with the ball unscrewed for all of my guitar tones; mainly because that's all I have lying around. Since I mic up primarily my 4x12" cab (which can get boomy), my mic position is 8 inches from the dust cap, on axis to capture all the high-end I can. Then through my DAW I cut out a good deal of the low end, and a fair bit of the super high end, and put a less than 1dB boost/cut in a select few spots. It works OK for me, but it's nothing set in stone! Happy tone-hunting dude!

 

[Jahka]

Hey hey, someone else who mics up amps, I didn't know too many existed here!

To solve that amp situation, put it in a closet if you have one handy! You basically need to isolate yourself from the amp, and then test out different mic techniques/what have you to get to sound you like. A lot of it is an excruciatingly boring/monotonous process of trial and error, but when you get a sound you like you'll know it was worth the effort!

As far my two cents regarding guitar "tightness":

Cut the gain on your amp down-especially if you're planning on using a boost in front! I've found through experience that the heaviest tones come from super-clear, responsive, guitar tones at the source...

Thanks for the response man! What should I do if the tone is still harsh on the high end? And what if I don't want to cut out too much of the highs because I want to create a melody on a distorted guitar?

 

[TallestFiddle]

What should I do if the tone is still harsh on the high end? And what if I don't want to cut out too much of the highs because I want to create a melody on a distorted guitar?

You should have different tones for different parts of the song. So if you want a punchy tone that is going to be used for more low string rhythmic parts, you want to dial in a tone suited for that. Maybe more mids, and less treble/presence. But then if you're going to have a part with a melody on higher strings, you want to boost the treble/presence more. Then if you mix these tones (with two different guitar parts) you will get a more full sound. Just try to get the best tone you can out of the amp before you try to process anything.

Sometimes there will still be some harshness that you cant do anything about, so you can try to pinpoint it by sweeping a boost around where you think it is. Then you can cut out a little bit at that part. Guitars can take a few cuts like this because you will usually be mixing a few more tones in, just try not to cut too much out.

I use a POD which can have quite a bit of harshness around the higher frequencies, so recently I just dialed in the best tone I could, and then put in a cut around that area. It does take away a bit of the tone, but it makes it sound a lot less annoying. It gives more room for cymbals, vocals, or other background tones, so it doesn't seem like anything was cut out.

 

[JoeChugs]

sorry not answering your question, but i really like this song. Good luck with a better sounding mix I'd love to hear it.