Ibanez 2024 NAMM

[nightsprinter]

Speaking on those newer 7421s - I haven't picked one up in forever, probably not since they were 7321s. Are the newer Indo 7421s still really solid mod platforms? Been wanting a simple 7 that is just all business, no bullshit, but I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on these because I have zero experience with them at this point. I don't mind doing basic work - fret ends/level/spot level, etc - and I fully intend on pickup swapping and some better pots/switch. But I don't wanna wade in if the chance is too high I'm gonna get a dud.

Or I'm just being pedantic

From what I've been told, Ibanez doesn't give the Indonesian factory the budget to do things correctly- and it isn't just Ibanez. It's like hiring a contractor who remodels your bathroom but doesn't do any painting or caulking because he or she doesn't do finish work. The rule of thumb in my experience is that 95% of the time, If you buy an Indonesian Ibanez, Jackson, or LTD, you may as well take it out of the box and put it right on the bench because it's going to need a fret level/crown/polish unless you like 6 or 7/64" minimum bass side action. So I haven't played the newer 7421's but I've purchased 3 Indo Ibanez in the past year or so and I've had to remediate each one for it to take a good setup. And it sucks because the laborers CAN do the work well, but they just aren't budgeted the time. Then there's the whole latitude/longitude sea travel thing further exercising the fingerboard. Blah blah blah. I'm sure they're just fine if you don't mind quirks and want to do the work.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Ah that will be good news. I think a nicely specced 2 hum RG in a sick colour will be on my to-buy list to be honest.

So a green, yellow & orange swirl with chunks in it?

 

[gh0styboi]

From what I've been told, Ibanez doesn't give the Indonesian factory the budget to do things correctly- and it isn't just Ibanez. It's like hiring a contractor who remodels your bathroom but doesn't do any painting or caulking because he or she doesn't do finish work. The rule of thumb in my experience is that 95% of the time, If you buy an Indonesian Ibanez, Jackson, or LTD, you may as well take it out of the box and put it right on the bench because it's going to need a fret level/crown/polish unless you like 6 or 7/64" minimum bass side action. So I haven't played the newer 7421's but I've purchased 3 Indo Ibanez in the past year or so and I've had to remediate each one for it to take a good setup. And it sucks because the laborers CAN do the work well, but they just aren't budgeted the time. Then there's the whole latitude/longitude sea travel thing further exercising the fingerboard. Blah blah blah. I'm sure they're just fine if you don't mind quirks and want to do the work.

This is kinda what I figured. Even for their more costly stuff, this has held true for me. I got an RGD Axion Label that I love now, but I had to fix the nut, file it, and do a handful of spot leveling on frets before I could even get an actual feel for whether I liked the guitar or not. This is pretty much what I figured, though, and I can do the basic bench work, so no worries there.

But you're right and I agree - it's a shame that these massive companies don't allot a bit more to the factoires for this sort of stuff. It's not like it'd break their bottom line to send out instruments that don't need hundreds of dollars of work to hit potential. Especially on a cheaper guitar. If I'm paying $400 for the guitar, and I have to take it to a tech and spend several hundred to fix the shitty fretwork, it's gonna deter me from the guitar altogether.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I'll probably hit up Reverb and snag a used one though. No sense paying factory new price for something I'm gonna have to do a bunch of aftermarket shit on.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

From what I've been told, Ibanez doesn't give the Indonesian factory the budget to do things correctly- and it isn't just Ibanez. It's like hiring a contractor who remodels your bathroom but doesn't do any painting or caulking because he or she doesn't do finish work. The rule of thumb in my experience is that 95% of the time, If you buy an Indonesian Ibanez, Jackson, or LTD, you may as well take it out of the box and put it right on the bench because it's going to need a fret level/crown/polish unless you like 6 or 7/64" minimum bass side action. So I haven't played the newer 7421's but I've purchased 3 Indo Ibanez in the past year or so and I've had to remediate each one for it to take a good setup. And it sucks because the laborers CAN do the work well, but they just aren't budgeted the time. Then there's the whole latitude/longitude sea travel thing further exercising the fingerboard. Blah blah blah. I'm sure they're just fine if you don't mind quirks and want to do the work.

It's a shame, but I suppose an extra 1-2 hours spent on the frets is a significant expense for a guitar that retails for <£500 (if the total production cost of a £500 guitar is £250, an extra £25 spent on labour is 10% of their profit gone). Once you get to Premium level (or non-Ibanez equivalents), it seems reasonable to expect more time and effort to go into it considering the price, but it seems the extra spend goes into materials / finishes / components (i.e. specs) rather than labour (i.e. quality). At Prestige level, the extra cost is very much for the quality, but then people complain about the stock pickups / boring finishes...or that the price is too high if it's not lacking quality or their preferred specs. Basically, unless cost isn't really a factor to them, the customer has to choose what they want to compromise on.

I'm comfortable swapping pickups, but lack the tools and know-how for fretwork, so Prestige is a good option for me (particularly as cheaper lines don't have my preferred Super Wizard necks with 430mm fretboard radius). I have been really tempted by some Premium and Iron Label models over the years, but once I factor in the likely cost of getting fretwork done, I may as well cough up for a Prestige model instead (I can't recoup money on nickel filed off the frets, but I can on any stock pickups that I replace).

 

[gh0styboi]

It's a shame, but I suppose an extra 1-2 hours spent on the frets is a significant expense for a guitar that retails for <£500 (if the total production cost of a £500 guitar is £250, an extra £25 spent on labour is 10% of their profit gone). Once you get to Premium level (or non-Ibanez equivalents), it seems reasonable to expect more time and effort to go into it considering the price, but it seems the extra spend goes into materials / finishes / components (i.e. specs) rather than labour (i.e. quality). At Prestige level, the extra cost is very much for the quality, but then people complain about the stock pickups / boring finishes...or that the price is too high if it's not lacking quality or their preferred specs. Basically, unless cost isn't really a factor to them, the customer has to choose what they want to compromise on.

I'm comfortable swapping pickups, but lack the tools and know-how for fretwork, so Prestige is a good option for me (particularly as cheaper lines don't have my preferred Super Wizard necks with 430mm fretboard radius). I have been really tempted by some Premium and Iron Label models over the years, but once I factor in the likely cost of getting fretwork done, I may as well cough up for a Prestige model instead (I can't recoup money on nickel filed off the frets, but I can on any stock pickups that I replace).

Is this a problem for the Premium line as well? I have no personal experience with them, but those are ~$1500 guitars, give or take. If I spent that kinda cash on a guitar and I had to level the frets, I'd be beyond pissed off...

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Is this a problem for the Premium line as well? I have no personal experience with them, but those are ~$1500 guitars, give or take. If I spent that kinda cash on a guitar and I had to level the frets, I'd be beyond pissed off...

I'm not sure tbh, but they're Indonesian. They supposedly get "Premium fret treatment" (rather than "Prestige fret treatment" or minimal fret work), but I don't really know what that means. I believe Rich (Ibanez Rules!!) has tended to avoid stocking Premium models due to a lack of confidence in the quality control.

Premium tends to have more exotic woods, fancier finishes and more expensive stock pickups than Prestige, yet is cheaper.

A typical Premium model with a burst finish on a figured top and DiMarzio TZ/TV/AN pickups:




A typical Prestige model with a plain finish and less desirable DiMarzio Fusion Edge pickups:

 

[nightsprinter]

Is this a problem for the Premium line as well? I have no personal experience with them, but those are ~$1500 guitars, give or take. If I spent that kinda cash on a guitar and I had to level the frets, I'd be beyond pissed off...

Premiums need help too.

And sometimes they have a heck of a time getting those monorail bridges aligned correctly

 

[gh0styboi]

I'm not sure tbh, but they're Indonesian. They supposedly get "Premium fret treatment" (rather than "Prestige fret treatment" or minimal fret work), but I don't really know what that means. I believe Rich (Ibanez Rules!!) has tended to avoid stocking Premium models due to a lack of confidence in the quality control.

Premium tends to have more exotic woods, fancier finishes and more expensive stock pickups than Prestige, yet is cheaper.

A typical Premium model with a burst finish on a figured top and DiMarzio TZ/TV/AN pickups:

View attachment 143497


A typical Prestige model with a plain finish and less desirable DiMarzio Fusion Edge pickups:

View attachment 143498

Man, that's a shame - especially since those Fusions aren't that bad. Not incredible, but definitely an improvement over the old QMs in my opinion. I guess the writing on the wall is - at the risk of sounding like an SSO parody - just buy a used Prestige

Premiums need help too.

And sometimes they have a heck of a time getting those monorail bridges aligned correctly

Damn. Selling guitars for over a grand that have even a moderate propensity for misaligned bridges is insane to me.

 

[nightsprinter]

Man, that's a shame - especially since those Fusions aren't that bad. Not incredible, but definitely an improvement over the old QMs in my opinion. I guess the writing on the wall is - at the risk of sounding like an SSO parody - just buy a used Prestige


Damn. Selling guitars for over a grand that have even a moderate propensity for misaligned bridges is insane to me.

"Tolerance"

 

[Seabeast2000]

So a green, yellow & orange swirl with chunks in it?

DnA series with actual puke.

 

[Crungy]

DnA series with actual puke.

They really missed the mark by not doing a couple DNA series with puke and dook

 

[gh0styboi]

They really missed the mark by not doing a couple DNA series with puke and dook

You mean Cosmic Brown Nebula finish?

 

[Crungy]

You mean Cosmic Brown Nebula finish?

Steve's Special Swirl and maybe color names inspired by his song names like Sick Horsie or
Tender Surrender (you know, from eating some bad chicken tenders)

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Man, that's a shame - especially since those Fusions aren't that bad. Not incredible, but definitely an improvement over the old QMs in my opinion.

I very much consider Fusion Edge pickups to be "real" DiMarzios...because they are...and I don't actually prefer Tone Zone / Air Norton. I would be replacing - but not upgrading - either of those sets, with something more to my personal tastes (e.g. D Activators). The big downside to Fusion Edges is that the perception of them being inferior to other DiMarzios limits the resale value.

 

[Seabeast2000]

They really missed the mark by not doing a couple DNA series with puke and dook

NARRATOR: The new DNA promotional factory clips did not go over well.

 

[Perge]

Really hoping they go 26.5 if this becomes a production run

 

[l1ll1]

View attachment 143884
Really hoping they go 26.5 if this becomes a production run

God. This with a fixed bridge would have me in debt.

 

[RevelGTR]

I very much consider Fusion Edge pickups to be "real" DiMarzios...because they are...and I don't actually prefer Tone Zone / Air Norton. I would be replacing - but not upgrading - either of those sets, with something more to my personal tastes (e.g. D Activators). The big downside to Fusion Edges is that the perception of them being inferior to other DiMarzios limits the resale value.

I’m 99% certain the most recent Erra, Knocked Loose and Invent/Animate albums were recorded with Fusion Edge’s. Wait until they’re discontinued and people will want them.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Folks just hate stock pickups. The second something goes from a bespoke boutique add-on to just "stock" it tends to lose its charm.

The various trendy Duncan and DiMarzio sets, BKP, Lundgren, etc. were all seen as something special until you could grab them stock in a ~$1k Korean something or other.

This has been the way of things forever and comes with the territory.

 

[crushingpetal]

I’m 99% certain the most recent Erra, Knocked Loose and Invent/Animate albums were recorded with Fusion Edge’s. Wait until they’re discontinued and people will want them.

If I recall, Isaac from KL ripped his Fusion Edges from his RGD to put in his new custom Iceman.