Ibanez Edge series trem arm question

[Drew]

BTW here's Jemsite on the bar around the time it came out. they have their biases, but generally the tecnical info is good, and this is WAY lighter, 1/3 the weight of the regular. It's not just a sleeve around a regular bar.

Carbon Fiber Tremolo Bar

www.jemsite.com

Honestly, if you prefer the allen-key tension adjustment style... yeah, it's a lot of work up front and it costs more money than just running down your collection of bushings, but how often do you play?
Realistically, is the $20 per bar THAT expensive, amortized across the hundreds of hours you'll be playing a guitar? For me, small upgrades like this that make a material difference to the playing experience are a no-brainer.

 

[odibrom]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it right away.

@Drew I'm not sure if you're replying to me or not, personally, I'd prefer if these trems came with a tightness adjustment for the bar, but I won't go for the upgrade for now nor anytime soon... priorities are elsewhere and for the time being, the bushings serve their purpose well and for good time, it's a not a problem to think about.

Regarding the difference in the bar itself, I'm not sure if the newer / lighter version of it would be significant to my play, so I'll keep with the trusty old style. Maybe someday if I'll have nothing else to spend on...

 

[Alberto7]

The carbon fiber bar is not a sleeve. It is a hollow carbon tube that is built in two halves and then glued onto the metal piece, given there'sa length-wise glue line.


The cf bar is VERY noticeably lighter, and the numbers show it. Not quite 1/3 of the weight, but less than half.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it right away.

@Drew I'm not sure if you're replying to me or not, personally, I'd prefer if these trems came with a tightness adjustment for the bar, but I won't go for the upgrade for now nor anytime soon... priorities are elsewhere and for the time being, the bushings serve their purpose well and for good time, it's a not a problem to think about.

Regarding the difference in the bar itself, I'm not sure if the newer / lighter version of it would be significant to my play, so I'll keep with the trusty old style. Maybe someday if I'll have nothing else to spend on...

You mean like the Edge Zero and ZR?

 

[odibrom]

The carbon fiber bar is not a sleeve. It is a hollow carbon tube that is built in two halves and then glued onto the metal piece, given there'sa length-wise glue line.
View attachment 145377

The cf bar is VERY noticeably lighter, and the numbers show it. Not quite 1/3 of the weight, but less than half.
View attachment 145375
View attachment 145376

Now that's what I call an informative reply. I'm sure many of us will appreciate as much as I do. Thank you very much. How sturdy is it, does it feels like it will break in the carbon fiber part? In its joint with the metal that inserts into the arm socket?

You mean like the Edge Zero and ZR?

I've never messed with those trems, but eventually, yes... Those still have a plastic bushing that wears of in time if I'm not mistaken, right?

 

[Alberto7]

Now that's what I call an informative reply. I'm sure many of us will appreciate as much as I do. Thank you very much. How sturdy is it, does it feels like it will break in the carbon fiber part? In its joint with the metal that inserts into the arm socket?

No worries! Figured I had the ability to provide numbers, so there
It feels very sturdy tbh. It is light, which can be off-putting for some people, but carbon fiber is super stiff. When I play my Pia I use the trem quite a bit, and I don't feel any less confident in this bar than I do the regular one. You *probably* could snap it if you were strong enough and tried hard enough, but I cannot imagine it breaking under normal use and abuse, even if your name is Steve Vai. It also doesn't feel like the carbon will slip out of the metal section any time soon. I cannot confirm, but other than glue, I am pretty sure the metal is grooved and the carbon fits into these grooves at the joint so that it doesn't slip. At least, that's what I would do.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I've never messed with those trems, but eventually, yes... Those still have a plastic bushing that wears of in time if I'm not mistaken, right?

No!

 

[Drew]

Now that's what I call an informative reply. I'm sure many of us will appreciate as much as I do. Thank you very much. How sturdy is it, does it feels like it will break in the carbon fiber part? In its joint with the metal that inserts into the arm socket?


I've never messed with those trems, but eventually, yes... Those still have a plastic bushing that wears of in time if I'm not mistaken, right?

Yes, that was exactly what I told you, and the Jemsite thread I also followed up with had someone who weighed it and came to the same conclusion. I told you it wasn't a sleeve, regardless of what it looked like.

You mean like the Edge Zero and ZR?

Not sure which of us you were referring to... but if you've never seen a Gotoh arm holder, IMO this is the gold standard:


By tightening or loosening that screw, you increase or decrease the amount of friction from that rubber bushing on a bar that otherwise pushes or screws (depending on model) into the arm holder.

Floyd Rose now offers a push-in bar as an option for their trems, and it's hands down better than the screw-on tension collar that's either very tight, or rattles loosely.

 

[odibrom]

Yes, that was exactly what I told you, and the Jemsite thread I also followed up with had someone who weighed it and came to the same conclusion. I told you it wasn't a sleeve, regardless of what it looked like.


Not sure which of us you were referring to... but if you've never seen a Gotoh arm holder, IMO this is the gold standard:

View attachment 145641
By tightening or loosening that screw, you increase or decrease the amount of friction from that rubber bushing on a bar that otherwise pushes or screws (depending on model) into the arm holder.

Floyd Rose now offers a push-in bar as an option for their trems, and it's hands down better than the screw-on tension collar that's either very tight, or rattles loosely.

The FRX Floyd Rose has a system similar to that one from Gotoh's arm holder.

 

[Alberto7]

Floyd Rose now offers a push-in bar as an option for their trems, and it's hands down better than the screw-on tension collar that's either very tight, or rattles loosely.

Got that on my Edwards. I wanna get another guitar with a FR, but then I remember the push-in option is not default and I get a little turned off. Not only does it make the tension much easier to adjust but I feel like it also grabs the trem bar much more tightly and flutters last longer.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Yes, that was exactly what I told you, and the Jemsite thread I also followed up with had someone who weighed it and came to the same conclusion. I told you it wasn't a sleeve, regardless of what it looked like.


Not sure which of us you were referring to... but if you've never seen a Gotoh arm holder, IMO this is the gold standard:

View attachment 145641
By tightening or loosening that screw, you increase or decrease the amount of friction from that rubber bushing on a bar that otherwise pushes or screws (depending on model) into the arm holder.

Floyd Rose now offers a push-in bar as an option for their trems, and it's hands down better than the screw-on tension collar that's either very tight, or rattles loosely.

My comment was directed to Odibrom, but your reply is interesting nonetheless.

My only non-Ibanez guitar is a Cort strat with a Wilkinson bridge with that same style of arm holder. I believe it's a VS50II, which is a cheaper Korean version of the Gotoh-made Wilkinson VS100. From what I can tell, it's an identical design except for the block material (steel vs zinc), so the arm holder is the Gotoh design rather than just similar.

Having become accustomed to both the Gotoh style and ZR / Edge Zero arm holders, I find the Ibanez pop-in design with plastic bushings that don't really work to be a glaring design flaw.

 

[Drew]

The FRX Floyd Rose has a system similar to that one from Gotoh's arm holder.

I'm not familiar with that specific model, but I suspect it's the same arm holder they sell as an aftermarket upgrade for existing Floyds. I have one on my main player 7 string, a Suhr Modern, and it's great.

Got that on my Edwards. I wanna get another guitar with a FR, but then I remember the push-in option is not default and I get a little turned off. Not only does it make the tension much easier to adjust but I feel like it also grabs the trem bar much more tightly and flutters last longer.

It 100% does. It's a little hard to find them in stock in Chrome (I'm using black on my Suhr, which makes it feel more Ibanez-like subsonsciously, haha), but it's like a $20 part so it's not too much of a barrier.

My only non-Ibanez guitar is a Cort strat with a Wilkinson bridge with that same style of arm holder. I believe it's a VS50II, which is a cheaper Korean version of the Gotoh-made Wilkinson VS100. From what I can tell, it's an identical design except for the block material (steel vs zinc), so the arm holder is the Gotoh design rather than just similar.

I first used this design on a VS100, before then seeing it on the Gotoh Floyd and the Gotoh 510 2-point Strat style which I now have in a couple guitars. It's awesome, and I agree - that's the biggest weakness in the Edge, though I'd say the Edge bar is still an improvement to the regular collar-style Floyd.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I first used this design on a VS100, before then seeing it on the Gotoh Floyd and the Gotoh 510 2-point Strat style which I now have in a couple guitars. It's awesome, and I agree - that's the biggest weakness in the Edge, though I'd say the Edge bar is still an improvement to the regular collar-style Floyd.

Have you tried the Edge Zero or ZR?

 

[Drew]

Have you tried the Edge Zero or ZR?

Ages ago and only briefly. I don't remember a thing about the arm holder, it was more the zero point stuff I was focused on.

 

[odibrom]

I'm not familiar with that specific model, but I suspect it's the same arm holder they sell as an aftermarket upgrade for existing Floyds. I have one on my main player 7 string, a Suhr Modern, and it's great.

It 100% does. It's a little hard to find them in stock in Chrome (I'm using black on my Suhr, which makes it feel more Ibanez-like subsonsciously, haha), but it's like a $20 part so it's not too much of a barrier.


I first used this design on a VS100, before then seeing it on the Gotoh Floyd and the Gotoh 510 2-point Strat style which I now have in a couple guitars. It's awesome, and I agree - that's the biggest weakness in the Edge, though I'd say the Edge bar is still an improvement to the regular collar-style Floyd.

The FRX has 2 screws to hold the arm in place or to better tighten it. These screws are, however, embedded in the trem's base-plate and not in a colar like you posted earlier. The FRX base-plate is thicker like the Ibanez Edge trems.

 

[Drew]

The FRX has 2 screws to hold the arm in place or to better tighten it. These screws are, however, embedded in the trem's base-plate and not in a colar like you posted earlier. The FRX base-plate is thicker like the Ibanez Edge trems.

I just googled the Floyd FRX. That surface-mount monstrosity for Les Pauls? I'd managed to repress all memory of that thing.

this was the design I was talking about:

Tremolo Arm Push-In Style

No more screwing around! This snug-fit arm and collar ensures total ease while spinning, diving, and removing from the bridge. Fits all authentic Floyd Rose tremolo systems including the Original, Special, 1000 Series, Non-Fine Tuner, and Pro, as well as a direct replacement for the 1500...

www.floydrose.com

 

[odibrom]

I just googled the Floyd FRX. That surface-mount monstrosity for Les Pauls? I'd managed to repress all memory of that thing.

this was the design I was talking about:

Tremolo Arm Push-In Style

No more screwing around! This snug-fit arm and collar ensures total ease while spinning, diving, and removing from the bridge. Fits all authentic Floyd Rose tremolo systems including the Original, Special, 1000 Series, Non-Fine Tuner, and Pro, as well as a direct replacement for the 1500...

www.floydrose.com

It's not only for LPs and it does work quite well, it's a smooth feeling trem and does all the others do. It also has soma clever solutions for common problems like finding the Neutral point for string changes and lock at the position...

 

[Drew]

It's not only for LPs and it does work quite well, it's a smooth feeling trem and does all the others do. It also has soma clever solutions for common problems like finding the Neutral point for string changes and lock at the position...

Yes. But, against all that, you also have to balance the fact it's HIDEOUS.

The Gotoh 510 is my current favorite trem these days.

 

[odibrom]

Yes. But, against all that, you also have to balance the fact it's HIDEOUS.
(...)

Fair enough I guess...

 

[Grindspine]

I did some work on my USA BC Rich Warlock that had an original Edge as factory hardware. I started to install the Red Bishiop Majik Arm, but realized how loose the original Edge arm mount was. After tightening the torque screw and making sure that the tension nut was tight, the original arm felt pretty damn good. Maybe I just don't get aggressive enough with the trem arm to wear out the bushings quickly. After tightening everything, the Original Edge with the stock push-in bar felt as good as the Edge Zero on my Prestige RG and RGD.

I can see why the Red Bishop design is an improvement; the lack of nylon washers that wear, the topside tension adjustment, and not requiring a hex wrench for the tension adjustment are all improvements over the original Edge and Gotoh designs. The only disadvantage I see is that the torque adjustment does sit rather high off the body of the original Edge, above the height of the saddles. My Lo-Pro Edge has the bar mounting collar much lower to the body of the trem though.

So, although I am a huge fan of the design of the Red Bishop Majik arm, this one is getting set aside for a different guitar for now. I expect the adjustments that I made will last quite a while with my playing being spaced out between multiple guitars.