Intonation, Harmonics or Fretted?

[BIGRIGG]

Just wondering your thoughts on setting Intonation. Using a natural harmonic at the 12 th fret is very standard. Also, fretting the string at the 12th fret. I find fretting gives me a better tuned guitar for notes and chords vs harmonic. Harmonic seems to leave the intonation a bit sharp when you fret the notes. Agreed?
Any opinions or advise is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Mordacain]

Just wondering your thoughts on setting Intonation. Using a natural harmonic at the 12 th fret is very standard. Also, fretting the string at the 12th fret. I find fretting gives me a better tuned guitar for notes and chords vs harmonic. Harmonic seems to leave the intonation a bit sharp when you fret the notes. Agreed?
Any opinions or advise is appreciated. Thanks.

The standard method for intonating a non 24-fret guitar is to tune the harmonic to the fretted note until they are as close as possible to each other and the open note.

Though I'm told you can just fret a 24 fret, I still get better result using the standard method.

 

[rippedflesh89]

i usually intonate my guitars to the 24 th fret... and if i only have 22 frets, then i would transpose the note... so im working on a low E string, ill check the open E note w/a high D note at the 22nd fret...

another method that i just recently discovered that works even better than the 24th fret method is to check the 19th fret harmonic against the 19th fretted.... if the fretted note is flat, move the saddle towards the nut and vice versa

 

[Explorer]

It's impossible for me to remember the harmonic or fretted note precisely, so I use a tuner.

I'll set intonation, first tuning the note to pitch, then seeing how far out the 12th fret is, and in what direction. I'll remove tension from the string (no unnecessary downwards pressure on the bridge saddle to scrape the metal beneath, thank you!), move the saddle, and the tune up again and repeat.

Once that's set precisely, I will then check the 1st fret compared to the 13th fret, at least the first time I set up an instrument, because that will tell me if the nut height might be too high, forcing me to slightly bend the string just in the act of pushing it to the fretboard at the 1st fret. If there is a discrepancy between the intonation of nut-to-12th and 1st-to-13th, I know there's likely a nut problem.

----

How do you guys know that you've gotten your intonation perfect just by remembering the pitch? Do you have perfect pitch or something? I'm impressed!

 

[Quitty]

How do you guys know that you've gotten your intonation perfect just by remembering the pitch? Do you have perfect pitch or something? I'm impressed!

It's easier than you think - since one note is an overtone on an open string and thus rings 'till you run out of sustain, the next (fretted) note is immediate -
you can hear the difference just as you can hear yourself bending a string. No need to remember anything.

 

[Greatoliver]

I use a tuner and just check all the frets from 12-24. If they are all spot on, then the intonation is good.

 

[titan amps]

Fretted at the twelfth fret works for me.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Depends on what part of the fretboard I'll be playing in the most on the given string.

For instance on my 8-string I intonate the F# string at the 3rd or 5th fret, the B and E at around the 4th or 6th fret, the A at the 6th fret, and the D, G, B, E all from around the 8th fret to the 12th fret. The reasoning is that I typically use those frets on those strings.

See, on traditionally fretted instruments you're never going to get perfect intonation. That's why you have stuff like Ervana Compensated Nuts and True Temperment frets.

Granted, that's for when I play stuff that's not full of a lot of chords, when I play chord heavy pieces I tend to intonate at either the same fret (still close to where I'll be playing) or a single fret adjacent on some strings.

 

[BIGRIGG]

Whew! That's a ton of good advice. Of course, it will make me insane if I apply it all. I suppose it's all just a matter of taste and not right or wrong. Some good ideas for different applications though. Thanks to all.
When the stars align, perfect intonation will be had by all.

 

[titan amps]

guitars are tempered scale instruments. there isn't one that's perfectly in tune all the way up the neck. that's part of their magic, IMO...that little bit of dissonance is what gives it so much character.

 

[TelosHedge]

i think using one fret is crazy - what if that one fret is a little fucked up?

i usually start at the 12th and 24th frets. then i'll move to some other trouble spots that seem to be unique to certain guitars of mine. case in point, i will never intonate my guitars to only one fret.

 

[titan amps]

uh...if you intonate on multiple frets, how do you know which one is right? like, if it's a couple cents sharp on the 7th, but dead on at the 12th? what then?

no guitar is perfectly intonated on every fret.

 

[SirMyghin]

i think using one fret is crazy - what if that one fret is a little fucked up?

i usually start at the 12th and 24th frets. then i'll move to some other trouble spots that seem to be unique to certain guitars of mine. case in point, i will never intonate my guitars to only one fret.

What Titan said, you can't intonate at every fret. It isn't possible. If you check a 'trouble spot' and change the intonation, the 12th fret will then be off, and if you move to another spot, the first trouble spot will be off. You should really do some reading up on what intonation is, and how it works with respect to the instruments with linear frets.

 

[TelosHedge]

ugh. no. sorry, that post didn't come out right.

i don't intonate exactly to 0cents every fret. i merely check around the neck to make sure things are where they should be. not all frets are in tune, no, but my guitars tend to have their own tendencies for how they intonate across the fingerboard. THAT's what i check. just like how rich from ibanez rules has his own preset measurements for moving stock saddles around on a brand new guitar, i have a few points written down for certain guitars of mine to double check if things are where they should be.

just because i'm checking over the spectrum of a few frets does not mean that i'm going to intonate them all to absolute pitch.

everyone happy now?

 

[titan amps]

i'm happy. are you happy?


in reality, if you have a decent tuner you only have to intonate at one fret. my preference is the twelfth, since it's halfway between the nut & bridge. whatever is going on at other points on the neck is what it is. that's what works for me, YMMV

 

[TelosHedge]

i am quite dandy

for me, i intonate a lot. i have a lot of instruments here so i'm fortunately able to experiment on many of them at once to see what kind of differences/trends show up.

most notably, i have experimented with re-intonating for different keys. if you write a song in something like Bb, the 12th fret isn't necessarily going to be my starting point. i admit that sometimes my experiments have led me far away from a good result, but by checking certain areas of my guitars i can keep track of trends that work for different scale lengths, string gauges, and certain keys.

not trying to come off badly, i just didn't want you guys to think i was just babbling wildly about yanking all of my guitars out of tune

what i want to know, however, is how the damn peterson tuners work. mine has a guitar 'temperment' setting to it which does wacky things. anybody know???

 

[titan amps]

Google turned up this: Peterson Strobe Tuners - What is the deal with the GTR® temperament?

and this: Peterson Strobe Tuners - What are temperaments and Sweeteners and why should I care?

Hope that helps.

 

[BIGRIGG]

Worst part of learning to intonate properly....self realization that it's me who plays sharp and flat