Kicked out of my band, apparently :wallbash:

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WarriorOfMetal

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so, before i joined Summoning Hate, they recorded tracks for an album. i heard some of the rough mixes a couple months ago (which are posted on the myspace page still currently linked to in my signature, btw), and tonight at practice, we listened to a couple fully mixed songs that we'd been sent by the engineer to approve or comment on.

they had tracked the drums without using a click track, so the time wasn't perfect. also, the other guitarist doesn't have the best sense of time, so that didn't help. there are also a few parts where the guitar tracks are a little out of tune with each other, and it sounds like the bassist got studio nerves and hit some wrong notes. overall the whole thing sounds sloppy and unprofessional. the mix isn't that great, and that doesn't help matters, either (i think the guy doing it knows what he's doing, but doesn't have much experience with metal...plus he's working with less-than-great performances by everyone)...but in any case, i think that they're getting ripped off a bit on the price vs. product quality.

the band has had some label interest from a local-ish label (i think they have national distribution, though), and they were planning on shopping this album to labels.

after listening at practice tonight, i stated that i was not happy with the way it sounded, and that i would be embarrassed to release this. i believe what i said was something to the effect of, "if you release this, people are going to listen to it and think the band sucks"....yes, a bit blunt, and perhaps a bit harsher than i'd intended. the thing is, i really think it's true, and i was only trying to be helpful. anyway, the bassist had left before we started talking about this, but the other guitarist, the drummer, and i talked about it for a while, and i'd thought we'd left it at "well, do what you want with it, but i would prefer not to have my name attached to this recording" (which i think is perfectly reasonable, seeing as i had nothing to do with it).

when i came home, i checked my myspace and saw that i had a message from the bassist, from the band's account, saying that he thought what i'd said was "very fucked up" and that i was lucky he wasn't there, and that i should return the keys to the practice space. he'd also removed me from the band's myspace page and friends list.

i replied saying that i was really sorry, and realized that what i'd said had come off harsher than i'd intended, and that i'm more than willing to compromise, if they're willing to discuss things in a reasonable, civil manner. if not, i'll go pick up my gear later this week and leave the keys. i've really enjoyed playing with this band, even though they're not the most professional people or best musicians i've ever played with (far from it, in fact, but i know they can do better than what these recordings show).

i'm really bothered by this whole thing :noway:
 

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Zepp88

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Wow, sounds like they're too full of themselves to realized that their performances are sub-par. I don't think what you said was harsh, just truthful.

If it really is a sloppy recording I would think they'd be willing to work hard to re-record it and get it to the best possible level before shopping for a label.

Their loss I suppose...
 

WarriorOfMetal

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basically what the drummer and guitarist said, was that they'd put a lot of time and money into recording this stuff, and that they're worried that the label will lose interest if they don't hurry up and get it done...plus, they can't afford to have the money they spent on tracking be a waste, and then spend more money and take more time to re-record it.

thing is, we did the first RVG album at nate's house, and the whole thing cost us like $250, and it at least sounds decent. that's about 1/10 of what they've put into this recording.
 

Zepp88

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Yeah, and he would probably have no problem doing a recording for Summoning Hate with out charging them a rediculous amount :shrug:

My old band did the same shit though, we had our first demo recorded in some studio that costed way too much, we sucked, the recording sucked, we ended up at Nates about a year later to re-record it.
 

WarriorOfMetal

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Yeah, and he would probably have no problem doing a recording for Summoning Hate with out charging them a rediculous amount :shrug:

My old band did the same shit though, we had our first demo recorded in some studio that costed way too much, we sucked, the recording sucked, we ended up at Nates about a year later to re-record it.

yeah, but going to VA to do it would get expensive, even if he gave us the same deal he gave tim 4 years ago :lol:
 

Zepp88

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yeah, but going to VA to do it would get expensive, even if he gave us the same deal he gave tim 4 years ago :lol:

Yep that's certainly true, just seems kind of pompous to me that they don't want to look at it critically, granted I don't know them so I'm kinda talking out of my ass. But kicking you out for that? Stupid.
 

ibznorange

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Fuck em. if theyre that absurd about stuff, i dont care how well they play. The band is going nowhere
 

InTheRavensName

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^+1, labels aren't going to be interested in a band that don't sound professional. Style and songwriting skill is down really to personal taste, but timing is something that is either right or wrong, and if they're not playing in time they're not going to get anywhere
 

Ryan

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Is this the same drummer that was in that clip you posted of the mystery amp? Cause if it is, I think they're doing you a favor ;p
 

Naren

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Fuck em. if theyre that absurd about stuff, i dont care how well they play. The band is going nowhere

:agreed:

I can't even imagine being in a band like that. Well... there was a band I was in for about 3 months that I quit because that bass player was a control freak and he might have responded like that, but I can't imagine any of the bands I've been serious about reacting like that.

It's called "constructive criticism." I always tell people in my band to say whatever their thinking, even if it sounds harsh. Don't worry about hurting my feelings. Everything has to be done with the purpose of improving the music. Improving the performance. Improving the writing. Improving the sound (tone, overall balance, etc.). And so on.

And they sound like they don't want to accept the truth that you were telling them.

Fuck them. They don't seem to have any real desire to get better and sound better. :noplease: A band like that most likely won't go anywhere important.
 

drmosh

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To me it sounds like the bassist (and the others?) know it sounds like shit, but are too afraid to admit it. That's why they react like that, they are scared of facing the fact that they wasted the cash
 

Zepp88

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To me it sounds like the bassist (and the others?) know it sounds like shit, but are too afraid to admit it. That's why they react like that, they are scared of facing the fact that they wasted the cash

It's a lesson learned, and nothing to be ashamed of, but if it sucks why send it to labels?

The problem with the cost of recording studios is that many charge hourly rates, and unless you've got your shit together, and can nail great performances on the spot, it can get very expensive.

I could understand having frustration from this, but that's how things go.
 

El Caco

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:agreed:

I can't even imagine being in a band like that. Well... there was a band I was in for about 3 months that I quit because that bass player was a control freak and he might have responded like that, but I can't imagine any of the bands I've been serious about reacting like that.

It's called "constructive criticism." I always tell people in my band to say whatever their thinking, even if it sounds harsh. Don't worry about hurting my feelings. Everything has to be done with the purpose of improving the music. Improving the performance. Improving the writing. Improving the sound (tone, overall balance, etc.). And so on.

And they sound like they don't want to accept the truth that you were telling them.

Fuck them. They don't seem to have any real desire to get better and sound better. :noplease: A band like that most likely won't go anywhere important.

I totally agree with that attitude.

If you don't want to be the best you can what's the fucking point?
 

dpm

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Valid points from everyone :agreed:

IME the most effective way to get things happening is honesty. There's no point if the result isn't worthwhile, and the world of metal is very different to how it used to be with regard to quality. You need a tight, quality recording to have any chance at all.

Another point to consider - if this is the reaction to well meant criticism I don't think these guys stand a chance of lasting on the road. The shit will really hit the fan when everyone is tired as fuck and crammed in a van together for a few weeks. :2c:
 

The Dark Wolf

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It's called "constructive criticism." I always tell people in my band to say whatever their thinking, even if it sounds harsh. Don't worry about hurting my feelings. Everything has to be done with the purpose of improving the music. Improving the performance. Improving the writing. Improving the sound (tone, overall balance, etc.). And so on.
This is why I loved being in a band with you. Terrific to work with.


As for Ari... well, mayhaps his personality had something to do with it. Always two sides, and I'm betting those guys may have something different to say. The truth? Likely in the middle, as usual.

Although I've been on the egregious end a few times, rarely, but enough to stick in my craw, where I've done absolutely jack-shit to merit someone's angst. Eh, who knows.
 

JJ Rodriguez

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I think it's perfectly reasonable to not want your name attached to it, especially if you weren't on any of the recordings.
 

InTheRavensName

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^ I think that is the crux, Ari's going to be dragged in as part of what 'was'. Nevermind how good the band gets or how capable a guitarist he is, prospective record labels and even other bands will listen and think "neither of those dudes can perform in a studio situation-let's find someone who can"
 

Mattmc74

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Sometimes the truth hurts, but I would not want my name on the recording if it was a sub-par recording. I think the others just want to hurry up and get the recordings out so they might have a chance at getting signed.But having a bad recording will NOT help get a record deal! Sucks that they kicked you out! Go on to bigger and better things.
 

Rommel

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I don't think your "critique" was harsh. If it didn't sound good to you, I don't think it'll sound better to the folks at the label. Whatever interest they had will have been lost.
 
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