Low volume, and speaker efficiency ?

[Akkush]

Hi

I don't understand the science behind this...

If I only practice, and record on a guitar cab, on a moderate volume, which gives a "better" tone?

With a 4x12 300W cab, or with a 2x12 120W cab?

If I know it right, low frequancy require more power to be generated by the speakers, which it means... that If I only use them on lower volumes, it would be better to use lower wattage speakers, since they will be pushed more harder, which means they will be more efficient?

Sorry if I wrote a lot of nonsence...

Under low volumes, I mean master and channel volume around 3.

Thank you for your input!

 

[diagrammatiks]

if you're close miccing then you are only miccing one speaker. The total number of speakers is mostly irrelevant depending on how close you are miccing.

Secondly the wattage handle and speaker efficiency are two different speaker characteristics. The efficiency is how much wattage the speaker requires to achieve a given spl level. The wattage is much power the speaker can take before blowing up.

While it's often the case, especially with newer designs that speakers that are higher wattage are also more efficient this is not necessarily the case.

so you need to double check the actual speaker characteristics.

 

[c7spheres]

- If you can get a frequency response chart for your speakers that will get you close. It won't take into account what the cab and room is doing but it will tell you the frequency and db level it outputs and you can see the curve. So if you have an SPL meter and run white noise through the speaker you can measure the spl and see what actually comes out the speaker.
- After placing the mic you can use a spetrum analyzer and see what the mic is actually picking up to the daw system too. These tools can tell you what is actually happening at whatever volume you're playing at so you can also get a rough idea of how to compensate if you want to flat out the eq and get a balance, but this is also a variable and an art too depending on how you want to work with the actual track in the mix. So you will end up varying it to fit better anyways so life is easier when balancing the mix.
- Basically just set everything at the volume you want get levels and record then mix by ear is the best way. If it sounds good then it is good. The analyzer tools will help you to offset anything to the recorded track so it's easier to work with. The track will be better because you can only correct things so much with eq's and compressors before you find out the track just isn't usable. The goal is to get a good track to work with. It will probably take dozens of tries before you start to get comfortable and a feel for it but it's well worth learning this skill. It will stay with you and become a tool you use forever and hone over time. Finding the optimal level for recording to any system is all about efficiency vs what you're going for. I try to stick with a unity gain type concept and use the gear at their sweet spots.
- What is a better tone is all subjective. Good tone can be achieved at high an low volumes. It's how you place it and blend it in the mix. Some huge guitar sounds isolated might sound thin but huge with everything else supporting it. It's an art and takes a lot of dedication. There's always something to try. Literally try everything you can think of and compare the results . Different volumes, cabs, levels eq etc.. Some stuff you assume aren't going to work out wlll be good. The better you can match your assumptions to the result the better you're getting at the skill.

 

[Lindmann]

And to add to that...since the question was which one would give the better tone...the answer is that the wattage of the cab doesn't matter in terms of tone (the reason is explained above)
As long as you don't overload it of course.

 

[budda]

Which cab sounds better? That one gives you the better tone.

 

[laxu]

Wattage is mostly irrelevant as it is power handling, though the construction details to achieve that power handling will matter. But for the sake of the conversation let's just ignore power handling here as all you really want for that is at minimum equal or higher than your amp's rated output.

I have a 1x12 cab with an Eminence Maverick, which is a 100 dB sensitivity speaker. I also own a 4x10 cab with four 10" Greenbacks at 95 dB sensitivity. The respective volumes with 1W input for these would be 100 and 101 dB (95 + 3 dB + 3dB as number of speakers is doubled) so in terms of volume they are pretty much the same despite the big difference in number of speakers.

While the 1x12 goes lower in bass frequencies, the 4x10 has better low end. It stays tighter so the amp bass control is usable both ways instead of just cutting the amount of low end. It avoids the tubby, loose low end you can have with 4x12 cabs that you usually cut out with EQ when recording. The four speakers in general also make the 4x10 sound bigger and open vs closed back is a factor here of course. The 4x10's high end extends higher so it has a bit more sparkle to it.

I think for low volume use a lot of people have it backwards. You don't need low power amps and a single speaker, you want a high power amp with good volume control and a bigger cabinet. Put the cab on a stand to reduce boomy bass and avoid annoying the neighbors.

 

[diagrammatiks]

Wattage is mostly irrelevant as it is power handling, though the construction details to achieve that power handling will matter. But for the sake of the conversation let's just ignore power handling here as all you really want for that is at minimum equal or higher than your amp's rated output.

I have a 1x12 cab with an Eminence Maverick, which is a 100 dB sensitivity speaker. I also own a 4x10 cab with four 10" Greenbacks at 95 dB sensitivity. The respective volumes with 1W input for these would be 100 and 101 dB (95 + 3 dB + 3dB as number of speakers is doubled) so in terms of volume they are pretty much the same despite the big difference in number of speakers.

While the 1x12 goes lower in bass frequencies, the 4x10 has better low end. It stays tighter so the amp bass control is usable both ways instead of just cutting the amount of low end. It avoids the tubby, loose low end you can have with 4x12 cabs that you usually cut out with EQ when recording. The four speakers in general also make the 4x10 sound bigger and open vs closed back is a factor here of course. The 4x10's high end extends higher so it has a bit more sparkle to it.

I think for low volume use a lot of people have it backwards. You don't need low power amps and a single speaker, you want a high power amp with good volume control and a bigger cabinet. Put the cab on a stand to reduce boomy bass and avoid annoying the neighbors.

the 3db addition only applies to a specific point at a specific distance from the speakers. If you're close making it doesn't matter.

 

[OverTonez]

People often think speaker breakup changes with how much power you send into the speaker, this is a misconception. Speaker breakup has to do with the cone geometry, so breakup is basically the same whether you send 5W or 50W into the speaker.

 

[Lindmann]

Prior to a reamping session I once tried a couple of different volume settings in order to figure out the best one. It ranged from rather quiet and neighbor-friendly to tearing-down-the-fucking-building-loud.

6505 through mesa 4x12

Turns out that it didn't affect the recorded tone at all.
The percieved tone the room was way different but it appeared that this was just the overbearing volume.

When I compared the eq curves of the clips representing the different volumes it showed that only the mids got bumped juuust a tiny bit. But threre was no audible difference.

 

[OverTonez]

Prior to a reamping session I once tried a couple of different volume settings in order to figure out the best one. It ranged from rather quiet and neighbor-friendly to tearing-down-the-fucking-building-loud.

6505 through mesa 4x12

Turns out that it didn't affect the recorded tone at all.
The percieved tone the room was way different but it appeared that this was just the overbearing volume.

When I compared the eq curves of the clips representing the different volumes it showed that only the mids got bumped juuust a tiny bit. But threre was no audible difference.

Curious, how did you get the EQ curves of the clips?

 

[Lindmann]

Voxengo Curve EQ.
This is an EQ matching tool which easily shows you the difference between two or more captured EQ curves.