Muddy 7th string

[Crianduil]

Hey guys,

I had a 7 string for some time but only now I finally started to really play that guitar. It's Chapman ML7-S (26.5 scale with stock pickups) and I really like it but I have a little problem with muddy 7th string. Tuned to standard tuning. Before you post any suggestions here are things that I already tried:

- tried to lower the pickup height as some guys suggested (helped a little but ultimately didn't solve the thing)
- also tried to play with pickup's poles (tried to lower it down a little so the volume of the low B isn't as promiment) - didn't really help, just lost a little bit of clarity for the string
- tried to play with EQ (made some cuts at 120 Hz and also experimented with other frequencies) - still nothing
- lowered the Bass in the Amp - didn't help
- tried a different gauge of the 7th string (.056 - this was quite good, .057, .058, .060, .062, .064, even .066) - but as I expected it was just more bass so NOT less muddy

Combined together these little experiments helped a little but I am still not satisfied with the result.
Currently I have ELIXIR Optiweb 7-String Medium strings (.011, .014, .018, .028, .038, .049, .059) but with .058 for the low B but it isn't so good either.
I also tried to take a .054 string from my older 6-string set (just for curiosity) and with that the guitar sounded absolutely amazing. The thing is that it's been really loose. So I tried to mount .056 for low B and it still sounded quite good but still the string was pretty loose and it's hard to play some riffs with that. So from my tests I can't go higher than .056 because after that my low B starts to loose clarity and sounds muddier but I would really want to be able to have 0.60 or 0.62 for low B with more clarity than I had with my tests.


So my question is what else can I possibly try to make it work. Maybe someone has some experience with the same guitar ? Maybe it's the pickups. I don't know really.

Sorry for the long story guys Better to write it all just from the start

Thanks

 

[mnemonic]

Thinner strings tend to be snappier and brighter sounding, so that could explain why you like the 56 more. Sometimes it can be hard to find a balance between thick enough to feel good and take abuse, thin enough to sound good. Especially with low tunings or 8 strings.

What’s the action like on the guitar? Low action I think sounds weaker, and also tends to feel floppier. You can try raising it a bit, and see if that sounds better.

What amp are you using? Are you using a boost pedal (tubescreamer/overdrive or EQ) before the amp?

 

[ImNotAhab]

What amp are you using? Are you using a boost pedal (tubescreamer/overdrive or EQ) before the amp?

Curious to know this aspect too. Some combinations can give a boosted bass/low mid effect that really cranks the mud.

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

As mnemonic stated above, signal chain can play a big part (amp, od, cab). Also, the height of the string can help as well, lifting the string height can also make the string feel like it has more tension. So you can try that with your 56 gauge.

As was said, thinner strings will have less bass and will help with your tone, but you may not be able to get the tension you want--as is your case.

I think your only choice at this point is to replace the pickup with something less bassy. I did the same with my PRS SE 7 string which had stock pickups that sounded great on the first 6 strings but was awful on the 7th and nothing I did could remedy the issue aside from pickup replacement.

I find the majority of 'stock' pickups (even the one's made by G&B Pickups in Korea like as in your guitar) are pretty bassy and on 7-strings it's usually extremely difficult to dial out without negatively impacting the other strings/overall sound.

If I were you I'd look up some tight 7-string pickups (at least the bridge) and throw them in the guitar. Dimarzio Titan is tight and doesn't have much bass at all, same goes for the Duncan Omega. There are lots of other options out there as well of course.

 

[Crianduil]

Thanks for quick response guys.
Honestly I didn't really think that action would have a bigger impact so I didn't play with it. But I will definitely try it tomorrow to see if it helps. Can be the case that it's pretty low.
Regarding the amp and my signal chain. I should mention earlier that Currently I use Overloud TH3 as I used to get some killer tones with my 6 string there. Loaded into Reaper DAW. Normally my signal chain look like this:

Tube Screamer (not too much gain) --- Amp (Heavy 51 Lead is my favorite) --- Guitar Cab (tried a lot of them) --- Parametric EQ (to shape final sound a little, nothing too drastic) --- Delay (just sometimes when I play Lead parts)

Also I tried to cut bass frequencies by placing AmpEQ at the start but the change wasn't as big as I would hope for. Maybe I am doing something wrong but with my old Schecter Damien 6 (stock passive pickups) I was able to get some nice sounds.

I will see if the action change helps tomorrow and I will post the results.

Thanks for now guys

 

[Lorcan Ward]

Download the demo for The fortin nameless Suite on Neural DSPs site and see how that works, it's one of the best amp sims for low tunings and might solve your problem before you have to look at replacing pickups. If that doesn't work then it's the bridge pickup not handling the bass from strings thicker than 56.

 

[KailM]

I would think a .056 on a 26.5” scale shouldn’t feel too bad in B. Maybe just get used to it? I tune to C# Standard/Drop B on my 25.5 scale 6-string with a .012-.056 set and while the low B is a little noodly, I don’t have any trouble riffing.

Otherwise, I think you’ve explored all the free options— time to look at pickup replacement.

This is kind of a polarizing recommendation, but I’d look at the Duncan Nazgul before considering the Omega. The Nazgul has tight, controlled low end, but it does still have some low end. The mids are very forward and present, but it looks like you’ve got the EQ tools to tailor that area just right. Output is high but not ridiculous; I find myself still using a boost, but a clean boost ie — no added gain.

To my ears, the Omega sounds similar to what SD was going for with the Nazgul, only they took it to the extreme and carved away all the remaining bass, leaving only that metallic, honky quack that people seem to love so much. If that describes you, then maybe consider that pickup.

 

[TedEH]

Chapman ML7-S

I've got one of these (see my picture to the left!), with the stock pickups and I don't find it particularly muddy - not any more than other guitars I've had. Maybe you're just not a fan of those pickups, or they don't gel with the gear you're using.

 

[Crianduil]

Hi guys,
thank you all for the tips. So basically played a little with action. Tried to raise it a bit but the effect was almost the same as when I tried to lower pickup height. Helped but not too much. I also wanted to try Fortin Nameless Suite which Lorcan suggested. Downloaded the trial but for some reason Reaper couldn't load the plugin for me. But I would still rather use TH3 because I like the software since I bought it 2 years ago.
Now, I thought about trying another pickups for some time and I usually ended at Nazgul / Sentient set when I tried to choose something. Usually I see them in nearly all of the guitars today. From what I heard and read about them they are solid, especially for low strings since they are pretty tight. Most bad comments I saw about them were that they aren't so good for clean and that they tend to be really good just for metal (which I basically want but little versatility isn't bad too). But I think that it's nothing that can't be done with some EQ. So I really think about buying the Nazgul / Sentient set. Don't get me wrong I think that stock pickups in ML7-S are good but I know it can be better with low string there.

So what are your thoughts ? Seems that I would like to try Nazgul / Sentient set but now I honestly can't decide if Pegasus / Sentient wouldn't be a better choice. Watched some videos, read some reviews and a lot of people like Pegasus more because of it's versatility, balanced and less fizzy sound apparently. So now I am between these and don't know what to choose

Any ideas what would be better ? Maybe someone who tried Pegasus pickup ?

Thanks for help guys

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

Hi guys,
thank you all for the tips. So basically played a little with action. Tried to raise it a bit but the effect was almost the same as when I tried to lower pickup height. Helped but not too much. I also wanted to try Fortin Nameless Suite which Lorcan suggested. Downloaded the trial but for some reason Reaper couldn't load the plugin for me. But I would still rather use TH3 because I like the software since I bought it 2 years ago.
Now, I thought about trying another pickups for some time and I usually ended at Nazgul / Sentient set when I tried to choose something. Usually I see them in nearly all of the guitars today. From what I heard and read about them they are solid, especially for low strings since they are pretty tight. Most bad comments I saw about them were that they aren't so good for clean and that they tend to be really good just for metal (which I basically want but little versatility isn't bad too). But I think that it's nothing that can't be done with some EQ. So I really think about buying the Nazgul / Sentient set. Don't get me wrong I think that stock pickups in ML7-S are good but I know it can be better with low string there.

So what are your thoughts ? Seems that I would like to try Nazgul / Sentient set but now I honestly can't decide if Pegasus / Sentient wouldn't be a better choice. Watched some videos, read some reviews and a lot of people like Pegasus more because of it's versatility, balanced and less fizzy sound apparently. So now I am between these and don't know what to choose

Any ideas what would be better ? Maybe someone who tried Pegasus pickup ?

Thanks for help guys

I have a 7-string Pegasus/Sentient in my PRS SE 7 (25" scale) and really like it. The Pegasus is actually quite tame, and is great for Prog-style and is overall quite versatile. It isn't naturally aggressive so that has to come from the amp/od (etc.). Most people think the Pegasus is some 'metal-machine' or something but this is not at all the case, it's moderate output with great string/note clarity.

Pegasus can be a little 'round' in the low-end, nothing excessive, but it doesn't have that super-tight and forward-present low-end punch you'd get from a Nazgul. So again, the Pegasus needs a little 'shaping' to give it the super-tight low end and aggression for aggressive metal tones.

The Pegasus is probably my overall fave pickup, because it sounds great and works in any tuning (E-standard to drop Ab).

 

[Synllip]

Pick it harder closer to the neck pickup, you'll hear it pop with sharpness and the mud will be gone. Try it.

 

[Crianduil]

Okay,
after a much consideration I decided to go with Nazgul / Sentient set. Tried to go over all informations that I could and was satisfied with what I found. Pegasus was my second choice but it seems to have more bass in the low frequencies. Although it sounded really good there I still chose Nazgul because with that I know the low end will be tight (maybe too much, but I can live with that). Hard to judge the audio character of the pickups by some videos but I was happy with the sound. Also saw Lorcan's video of the pickups
and that sound was great. Not to mention that it's similar stuff that I will play

I will post the results after I swap the pickups. Until then thanks a lot for your ideas guys.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

^Thanks! In that video I'm using a neutral patch thats a little thin to try and make the drums/bass cut through. With a regular signal chain it will be thicker and more aggressive sounding.

The Nazgul is an odd pickup, it depends massively on the guitar woods, more so than any other pickup I've come across going from harsh to smooth depending on the body, the EQ changes massively where other pickups will have a typical EQ whatever the guitar. Its a perfect pair for Mahogany since it will tame the high end, it has a big bottom end but responds well to overdrives and EQ adjustments to tighten it up. I think you'll like it.

 

[Crianduil]

Done.
Today I finally swapped the pickups but god it was more work than I expected. Thought that the new pickups will fit nicely in pickup area of my Chapman but I was wrong. I had to widen the area with file which I was not so happy about. Screws also didn't fit so well but I managed to fix that too by using another screws. Chapman also used different color scheme for wiring but wasn't so hard to figure it.
Wasn't so easy as I hoped but the result was certainly worth it. For start I use the same strings that I had before (ELIXIR Optiweb 7-String Medium strings - .011, .014, .018, .028, .038, .049, .059) but now with the original low B string from the set - 0.59. And I am happy how it sounds now - NOT muddy. That Nazgul pickup really copes well with gain. Normally I would expect more fizzy sound with that much gain but it is not. It' really clear. And what I like too is that it's also more clear with high strings for some reason. With stock pickups the chords sounded pretty hot on high strings and therefore a little fizzy sometimes (with some presets I made).
From what I tried the Nazgul was great choice for me. It's exactly sound that I wanted. Really looking to record something and see how it's going to sound in the mix.
So that's it for this topic. Thank you all for help guys (mainly Lorcan Ward and AkiraSpectrum). You helped me to make my choice.

Thanks

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

Done.
Today I finally swapped the pickups but god it was more work than I expected. Thought that the new pickups will fit nicely in pickup area of my Chapman but I was wrong. I had to widen the area with file which I was not so happy about. Screws also didn't fit so well but I managed to fix that too by using another screws. Chapman also used different color scheme for wiring but wasn't so hard to figure it.
Wasn't so easy as I hoped but the result was certainly worth it. For start I use the same strings that I had before (ELIXIR Optiweb 7-String Medium strings - .011, .014, .018, .028, .038, .049, .059) but now with the original low B string from the set - 0.59. And I am happy how it sounds now - NOT muddy. That Nazgul pickup really copes well with gain. Normally I would expect more fizzy sound with that much gain but it is not. It' really clear. And what I like too is that it's also more clear with high strings for some reason. With stock pickups the chords sounded pretty hot on high strings and therefore a little fizzy sometimes (with some presets I made).
From what I tried the Nazgul was great choice for me. It's exactly sound that I wanted. Really looking to record something and see how it's going to sound in the mix.
So that's it for this topic. Thank you all for help guys (mainly Lorcan Ward and AkiraSpectrum). You helped me to make my choice.

Thanks

Awesome!
Really happy to hear that it worked out.

 

[KailM]

Done.
Today I finally swapped the pickups but god it was more work than I expected. Thought that the new pickups will fit nicely in pickup area of my Chapman but I was wrong. I had to widen the area with file which I was not so happy about. Screws also didn't fit so well but I managed to fix that too by using another screws. Chapman also used different color scheme for wiring but wasn't so hard to figure it.
Wasn't so easy as I hoped but the result was certainly worth it. For start I use the same strings that I had before (ELIXIR Optiweb 7-String Medium strings - .011, .014, .018, .028, .038, .049, .059) but now with the original low B string from the set - 0.59. And I am happy how it sounds now - NOT muddy. That Nazgul pickup really copes well with gain. Normally I would expect more fizzy sound with that much gain but it is not. It' really clear. And what I like too is that it's also more clear with high strings for some reason. With stock pickups the chords sounded pretty hot on high strings and therefore a little fizzy sometimes (with some presets I made).
From what I tried the Nazgul was great choice for me. It's exactly sound that I wanted. Really looking to record something and see how it's going to sound in the mix.
So that's it for this topic. Thank you all for help guys (mainly Lorcan Ward and AkiraSpectrum). You helped me to make my choice.

Thanks

Nice — I think you’ll find that it sounds great in a mix, it cuts through really well and sounds clear. I don’t know if you use the bridge often for leads, but I’ve found that the Nazgul is really a sleeper pickup for soaring, David Gilmour-type leads that cut through a dense mix. My go-to lead sound is with that pickup and my 6505’s green channel set to on the verge of out of control feedback. The Nazgul is searing but somehow avoids being harsh or ice-picky.