My Crappy experience with Kiesel Guitars

[Jeff K]

I hope this thread saves someone from what happened to me by Kiesel!


I have been a client of Kiesel Guitars (Carvin) for many years. I have bought 9 guitars from them. 3 over the past year and a half. I was on Facebook and saw a live video of Jeff Kiesel announcing a special guitar run. It was for a new model called Vanquish. I liked what I heard and saw and decided to order one. I spoke with Chris Hong, went through the specifics, gave him my credit card and placed the order. They were only supposed to take a 300 deposit as per Chris Hong. They banged my card for over $600. The very next day (less than 13 hours since I placed the order), I called back and spoke to Chris. I wanted to make a few changes on the guitar. I have done this in the past when ordering from Kiesel. Chris told me NO. He said it was against the rules. I was like what rules? Chris said, the rules that were posted on Facebook. No one ever told me about any rules or conditions. When I ordered the guitar there was nothing disclosed to me. On top of all that, they never sent me a receipt or anything about rules / policy. I got no email, nothing, zero!! So when Chris refused to change my order, I told him to please just cancel the order. He told me NO! He told me according to the rules, I can not cancel the order. So, I went back and forth with some of the supervisors. Joe Stone emailed me that he has to follow Jeff Kiesel’s orders! I told them I would dispute the credit card charges. I Called my CC company, but so far I have not gotten my money back. It’s been 3 months and now I get an email the guitar is done and they want the balance. I told the person I cancelled the guitar. Now I get an email from another supervisor Anthony San Agustin. He tells me in the email that because I am cancelling I can no longer do future business with Kiesel. LOL!! Like I would ever want to again!! I mean their guitars are ok, but the customer service and the way they treat their long term, loyal clients is a joke! Joe Stone called me today. You could hear in his voice when I spoke to him, that he was basically stumbling on his words and he was quite embarrassed with the situation. He kept putting the blame on Jeff Kiesel. He said this is Jeff’s decision and that he has to follow protocol. I actually recorded the conversation.

You can listen hear:

https://hearthis.at/kieselguitars/kieseldick/C6W/

So to sum it up, I ordered a guitar, gave them a deposit.

I was not told about any rules or conditions when I ordered my guitar.

I also was unaware of a Facebook Page that displayed these rules. How would I know this!?!?

I also did not receive any paperwork. No receipt, no rules or terms.

Now they wont give me back my deposit! So Jeff Kiesel basically has stolen my money!!

He obviously has some kind of Napoleon complex, and all his employee puppets follow his dictatorship! I just can’t understand why the guy can’t realize how wrong he is in this instance and either give me back my money, or make the changes that I requested. Again, these so called rules where never told to me. I only knew about them after I made the purchase, and that is totally unfair! Jeff Kiesel of Kiesel guitars is a thief!!

MOD EDIT: The original version of this post identified the wrong sales person. Mike Jones name was replaced with Chris Hong.

 

[feilong29]

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear about this, and it seems to be a common trend. Eventually this will become commonplace and his business will suffer and he'll either have to adapt or go under. All these stories (which happen more often that I am comfortable with) are what has kept me from trying a Kiesel out. I really wanted a Vanquish, but ended up sticking with a brand I know well and trust, instead. I know many have had great transactions with Kiesel, but I've never heard of Caparison (sorry, haha) having complaints against them...except for their prices

 

[Jeff K]

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear about this, and it seems to be a common trend. Eventually this will become commonplace and his business will suffer and he'll either have to adapt or go under. All these stories (which happen more often that I am comfortable with) are what has kept me from trying a Kiesel out. I really wanted a Vanquish, but ended up sticking with a brand I know well and trust, instead. I know many have had great transactions with Kiesel, but I've never heard of Caparison (sorry, haha) having complaints against them...except for their prices

I bought 3 Aries multiscales in the past 3 years. Only one of them is good. Kiesel has really let me down. I recently ordered a Tom Anderson as I have heard great things. I also recently acquired a Skervesen which I love! Anyway, I agree. Jeff Kiesel better change his ways or things may go down hill for him and his company.

 

[narad]

Yea, I was (again) on the fence with the new zeus, which I think is the best shape to come out of Kiesel in a decade, but I think I'll pass. I'm sure I'd probably have a good experience, but I don't want to support business that shaft people like this.

It's like "you're only as strong as your weakest link" sort of thing. You're only as good as your worst instance customer support. And this is the third time I've heard of long-term customers who probably dropped $10k in Kiesel gear getting put through these shenanigans.

 

[Curt]

Just wow... And to think I was a month or so away from possibly giving them money.

 

[Splenetic]

^^^^ "Jeff Kiesel likes this"


LOOOOOL

 

[InHiding]

If they told you 300 and charged 600 I would not be surprised if the credit card company gives you all the 600 back. It's a fraudulent transaction and if it's fraudulent it's fraudulent. I would assume it will be canceled as a transaction and that's it. Based on your story I hope this is what happens.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

If they told you 300 and charged 600 I would not be surprised if the credit card company gives you all the 600 back. It's a fraudulent transaction and if it's fraudulent it's fraudulent. I would assume it will be canceled as a transaction and that's it. Based on your story I hope this is what happens.

I've had similar experiences with banks/credit card companies.

If you're charged more than the specified amount you can get a chargeback very easily.

Tell them you were overcharged or double charged. They deal with that very often.

 

[Esp Griffyn]

Totally shady dealings from Kiesel. If they want to specify these special and unusual conditions they cannot rely on a Facebook video and hope that everyone watches it before they place an order, they should explain this stuff up front and get agreement from the customer before taking a deposit on an order.

I've listened to the recorded conversation - the lack of conviction in the voice of the guy at Kiesel is comical, you can tell he isn't comfortable with screwing you but it sounds like Jeff rules with an iron fist and has his staff over a barrel.

I'm sorry to hear you fell for the "stolen guitars" scam, imo the shadiest thing I've ever seen from a guitar company. The guitars were never stolen, the company or showroom was not "robbed" as per Jeff's words in that video he released. The fraud was a mail fraud and the guitars never left the showroom and Kiesel were not left out of pocket, yet Jeff still posted that video saying "This isn't going to close the business but it does make things difficult for us, things will be tight and if you've been thinking about placing an order for a guitar then now is the time, it would really help us out if you ordered a new guitar, told your friends about what happened and if they've been thinking about ordering a Kiesel, then now is the time to pull the trigger and help secure us".

Appalling and shameless behaviour, exploiting a situation and preying on the good will of existing and potential customers just to fill the order book up. As long as Jeff has his cult of personality maintained via the Facebook group that will turn his piss into wine no matter what he does. I'd never give that company a single penny now. It's a shame, because back in the Carvin days I was waiting and waiting for them to get a UK deal set up to import into the UK effectively, because the old deal they had with Nevada Music would turn a $1000 Carvin into a £2400 guitar, which at the time was about $3500, making it completely unrealistic to bother with ordering. Now that the UK pricing is much more level with what a US customer would pay (although we still get hit with additional import fees), I'd never order an instrument from them out of principle. It's a shame what happened to that company.

 

[Anquished]

Sorry to hear that dude, hope you get your money back.

 

[guitar4tw]

Sounds like this company is treating their customers like the "Soup Nazi" from Seinfeld. Get in line and do the ordering procedure exactly like the rules say, or you'll be thrown out and banned for life.

Problem is that their product doesn't have the quality that should make people willing to go along with such BS behaviour just to receive it.

"NO KIESEL FOR YOU!"

 

[Dawn of the Shred]

Damn that sucks! No way in hell Kiesel will or would get my money.

 

[Jeff K]

Totally shady dealings from Kiesel. If they want to specify these special and unusual conditions they cannot rely on a Facebook video and hope that everyone watches it before they place an order, they should explain this stuff up front and get agreement from the customer before taking a deposit on an order.

I've listened to the recorded conversation - the lack of conviction in the voice of the guy at Kiesel is comical, you can tell he isn't comfortable with screwing you but it sounds like Jeff rules with an iron fist and has his staff over a barrel.

I'm sorry to hear you fell for the "stolen guitars" scam, imo the shadiest thing I've ever seen from a guitar company. The guitars were never stolen, the company or showroom was not "robbed" as per Jeff's words in that video he released. The fraud was a mail fraud and the guitars never left the showroom and Kiesel were not left out of pocket, yet Jeff still posted that video saying "This isn't going to close the business but it does make things difficult for us, things will be tight and if you've been thinking about placing an order for a guitar then now is the time, it would really help us out if you ordered a new guitar, told your friends about what happened and if they've been thinking about ordering a Kiesel, then now is the time to pull the trigger and help secure us".

Appalling and shameless behaviour, exploiting a situation and preying on the good will of existing and potential customers just to fill the order book up. As long as Jeff has his cult of personality maintained via the Facebook group that will turn his piss into wine no matter what he does. I'd never give that company a single penny now. It's a shame, because back in the Carvin days I was waiting and waiting for them to get a UK deal set up to import into the UK effectively, because the old deal they had with Nevada Music would turn a $1000 Carvin into a £2400 guitar, which at the time was about $3500, making it completely unrealistic to bother with ordering. Now that the UK pricing is much more level with what a US customer would pay (although we still get hit with additional import fees), I'd never order an instrument from them out of principle. It's a shame what happened to that company.

Wow, I did not know a lot of that! Thank you!

 

[Bdtunn]

I had a Vader when they first came out, it was nice but had minor issues. I ended up selling it because every time I picked it up I saw jeffs face haha. I can't stand his attitude and the way that ship has been sailing. When they were carvin I had a great experience and no regrets. Don't know how you can't recognize repeat business as the way to go. If I did that in my industry we'd be sunk pretty fast, although I don't get too many fanboys haha

 

[oracles]

I actually recorded the conversation.

I wouldn't be broadcasting this, as what you did is absolutely illegal if the other party (Kiesel) was unaware and did not agree to being recorded.

 

[Mattykoda]

Wow. I have one DC7X from them that I got right before a lot of issues started popping up on this forum and I think it was the constantatine's stain match error that was my deciding factor to never have repeat business with them. Even Jonathan who has some ridiculous builds by Kiesel has had trouble with them. Just goes to show how shitty Jeff's stance is behind the product with his name on it and what he believes is right.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I wouldn't be broadcasting this, as what you did is absolutely illegal if the other party (Kiesel) was unaware and did not agree to being recorded.

Depends on the state.

The OP is in New York a "single party consent" state. Which means only one party needs to be made aware they're being taped, in this case it would be the OP.

Federal law is also on the OP's side.

California is a "two party consent" state, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's committed a crime. It can also be argued that since Kiesel defrauded the OP by double charging him the call is part of the commitment of a crime which bypasses California's two party consent law.

 

[cwhitey2]

Who the hell blacklists customers for canceling an order?


I'm honestly not even surprised anymore when. I hear cramp like this.


Im tempted to order a guitar just to see how they would treat me.... But I can't stand the thought of giving them my money.


I think I'm going to start a gofundme

 

[MaxOfMetal]

The whole "no soup for you" thing is just a show of impotent rage.

They can't actually penalize someone here. If they threaten anything to the guitar, or try something with money they'll get bitch slapped by the law. So they threaten the only thing they can do and that's discontinue service.

Even then, it's absolutely toothless. First of all, how likely is someone going to be to buy another guitar from them after these shenanigans? No one. And even those dumb enough could just have a friend or family member arrange the purchase.

 

[Jeff K]

I wouldn't be broadcasting this, as what you did is absolutely illegal if the other party (Kiesel) was unaware and did not agree to being recorded.

WRONG! 100% Legal if one party knows its being recorded in NY state.