NGD - Daemoness Cimmerian

[narad]

an approximation means something close to the actual real value. It has nothing to do with the language, it s all about the context. And in this context 60 is for sure not an approximation for 30.

But "close" subject to a function of distance, which is not a discrete value, but a continuous one. Hence, 60 weeks being a bad approximation for 30 weeks in this context.

 

[Flappydoodle]

The problem with having so much hype is that you will receive a huge amount of correspondence. We do not know how much. Its could be 10 emails a day, it could be 30, maybe more, maybe less.

What we do know is that his guitars are in high demand. He's a one man operation. Let's says he works 10 hours a day. If he spends two hours a day on correspondence/social media, that leave eight hours to build. How much can a luthier do in eight hours? I don't really know. I have no personal experience in that field.

What I can tell you is that he goes into a lot of detail in build emails and that they aren't written up in ten minutes. Maybe he needs someone to set up a quote calculator for the base specs and then slap on about 1.5k as soon as someone requests art and 1k as soon as someone requests custom inlay.

The price might be slightly off but I bet it'll scare off time wasters. And you have bear in mind that he has probably wasted 100s of hours on those in the past as well when sporting through quotes.

Ideally, I suppose the best outcome would be that enough people get refunds for him to have a. backlog of say, 3 to 5 years. Obviously money comes in on completion keeping him going and after that he can build off the shelf models to sell (which in the past have sold for a fair bit more than customs).

I agree entirely. That's why I have concerns about the financial viability of the whole operation, as it currently operates.

I don't think you can really offer affordable, fully custom guitars while being a single-man operation. IMO, the idea of affordable needs to die. Dylan should start the entry pricing at £4K and go from there. And when he has themed stock builds ready, they should be £6K+. Because it's a cool guitar, but you can also have it NOW, which adds significant value.

 

[IbanezDaemon]

Que @IbanezDaemon for another nudge to Dylan to get back to me? (insert nervous smile emoticon here)

He really should get back to you at some point soon going by the statement he sent. If he doesn't shoot me a PM. All I can do is send your details to him via email or FB.

 

[StevenC]

an approximation means something close to the actual real value. It has nothing to do with the language, it s all about the context. And in this context 60 is for sure not an approximation for 30.

All these are a bit philosophical though, as Dylan honoured his statement and refunded me.

If someone quotes 1 month and it takes 2, was that a bad approximation?

 

[Flappydoodle]

Just to confirm, received full downpayment refund into my account.

Thanks to those in this thread who have helped to clarify and move things alone such as @IbanezDaemon

Thank you to Dylan for the refund. This will be best for everyone, and hopefully shortens the queue for you guys who are still waiting.

I will leave the thread now, since no longer a customer. Cheers.

 

[narad]

Just to confirm, received full downpayment refund into my account.

Thanks to those in this thread who have helped to clarify and move things alone such as @IbanezDaemon

Thank you to Dylan for the refund. This will be best for everyone, and hopefully shortens the queue for you guys who are still waiting.

I will leave the thread now, since no longer a customer. Cheers.

Lol this is a NGD thread -- none of us should be here.

 

[mehegama]

If someone quotes 1 month and it takes 2, was that a bad approximation?

it depends. Everything in this world works in relative terms. If i need some kind of therapy then this delay might be lethal. For a guitar is ok I guess. Again some people can wait for 10 years and still be ok but on average i think 60 months is not at all approximate 30.
I think this thread has gone from a NGD to soon discussing general relativity.. Since my issues were resolved I m off, and wishing Dylan and all the guys in the queue the best.

 

[StevenC]

it depends. Everything in this world works in relative terms. If i need some kind of therapy then this delay might be lethal. For a guitar is ok I guess. Again some people can wait for 10 years and still be ok but on average i think 60 months is not at all approximate 30.
I think this thread has gone from a NGD to soon discussing general relativity.. Since my issues were resolved I m off, and wishing Dylan and all the guys in the queue the best.

Ah, you're doing this on purpose.

 

[Jonathan20022]

Ah, you're doing this on purpose.

I thought this was painfully obvious

He's at the 20 - something month wait (Can't remember exact number), is raising concerns when his own build hasn't crossed the threshold, wants some kind of commitment that his guitar will be ready in the next year when it hasn't even reached the timber/lock in phase of the build.

mehegama always just wanted his refund, because his scenario for receiving an instrument was impossible. Anything short of exactly what he wanted, or a full refund would have been unacceptable coming from Dylan's communications to him. Nothing wrong with admitting it, but he played both sides of the fence, aka still wanting his guitar in a reasonable amount of time knowing full well that the average wait time was well above that expectation of happening.

 

[mehegama]

I thought this was painfully obvious

He's at the 20 - something month wait (Can't remember exact number), is raising concerns when his own build hasn't crossed the threshold, wants some kind of commitment that his guitar will be ready in the next year when it hasn't even reached the timber/lock in phase of the build.

mehegama always just wanted his refund, because his scenario for receiving an instrument was impossible. Anything short of exactly what he wanted, or a full refund would have been unacceptable coming from Dylan's communications to him. Nothing wrong with admitting it, but he played both sides of the fence, aka still wanting his guitar in a reasonable amount of time knowing full well that the average wait time was well above that expectation of happening.

ehm what are you talking about?? I m currently on 29 months and all i did was to raise concerns that my build would be very delayed. Also said that I got no answers from Dylan when I asked to update me on my build.
I said from the begining that I want the guitat but under the quoted times they gave me. Dylan himself said he is rescheduling his work for the next 12 months and that my guitar is not in that. Also told me he cannot guarrantee even this rescheduling timelines. He never said when my guitar will be in schedule, please do not spread misinformation. and i asked for a refund because I did not want to wait. I m sure others with similar wait times like me, will keep their spot.
I don’t understand where is the controversy here.
Just because I expressed some opinions on top of the above situation, it does not mean i had an agenta or anything. That’s ridiculous. I was talking about myself and my opinions

 

[Jonathan20022]

ehm what are you talking about?? I m currently on 29 months and all i did was to raise concerns that my build would be very delayed. Also said that I got no answers from Dylan when I asked to update me on my build.
I said from the begining that I want the guitat but under the quoted times they gave me. Dylan himself said he is rescheduling his work for the next 12 months and that my guitar is not in that. Also told me he cannot guarrantee even this rescheduling timelines. He never said when my guitar will be in schedule, please do not spread misinformation. and i asked for a refund because I did not want to wait. I m sure others with similar wait times like me, will keep their spot.
I don’t understand where is the controversy here.
Just because I expressed some opinions on top of the above situation, it does not mean i had an agenta or anything. That’s ridiculous. I was talking about myself and my opinions

No one is saying your concerns were unjustified or that there was any sort of agenda, it was just completely obvious to me and others that your desired outcome was a refund. Several people asked you about this and you said you still would like to get your guitar, but your timeline doesn't line up to realistic expectations for the current build process + pandemic delays. It's not misinformation, you've said multiple times that your guitar isn't going to be ready within the next year (12 Months) so due to that you don't want to have your money held up and wait for the guitar. My point is that no solution other than a refund would have been a satisfactory solution to you, and this was painfully obvious 20 - 30 pages ago.

It's like ordering a burrito for lunch, and you're told it'll be ready for pickup in 15 minutes. Then you show up and it's not ready, and they apologize for any delays telling you that they are working through their queue and your food will be out asap. If in your head, you give them a request of, "I'd like my burrito in the next 60 seconds or I'm requesting a refund". The restaurant will probably just look at you, apologize, then provide the refund, because your timeline expectation does not align with the reality of their process and delays.

There's nothing wrong with requesting a refund, the mexican restaurant was late, and you definitely should have had the food. But where the restaurant expects some kind of tolerance for a delay you give them an ultimatum, the only amicable solution is to provide a refund and let it go.

 

[narad]

No one is saying your concerns were unjustified or that there was any sort of agenda, it was just completely obvious to me and others that your desired outcome was a refund. Several people asked you about this and you said you still would like to get your guitar, but your timeline doesn't line up to realistic expectations for the current build process + pandemic delays. It's not misinformation, you've said multiple times that your guitar isn't going to be ready within the next year (12 Months) so due to that you don't want to have your money held up and wait for the guitar. My point is that no solution other than a refund would have been a satisfactory solution to you, and this was painfully obvious 20 - 30 pages ago.

It's like ordering a burrito for lunch, and you're told it'll be ready for pickup in 15 minutes. Then you show up and it's not ready, and they apologize for any delays telling you that they are working through their queue and your food will be out asap. If in your head, you give them a request of, "I'd like my burrito in the next 60 seconds or I'm requesting a refund". The restaurant will probably just look at you, apologize, then provide the refund, because your timeline expectation does not align with the reality of their process and delays.

There's nothing wrong with requesting a refund, the mexican restaurant was late, and you definitely should have had the food. But where the restaurant expects some kind of tolerance for a delay you give them an ultimatum, the only amicable solution is to provide a refund and let it go.

It's okay. There are other options like instant noodles, or bread. In many ways bread is as good of a food as a burrito. It also has calories, and you can chew it. And you don't have to wait 15 minutes for bread, and there's never any delays with bread. In fact, many burritos are downright distasteful. Chicken and pork in the same burrito? Who would ever like that? I don't. And I don't understand why anyone would order a burrito without guac. If not for guac, you can just put rice and chicken on bread and call it a day, it costs like a dollar, and you don't have to wait.

Still, I'm sure those who can wait for forever for the burrito and who can justify such a high cost will be happy. For me though, bread it is.

Now about that burrito place, I have some ideas that will need to be implemented for it to be successful...

 

[mbardu]

ehm what are you talking about?? I m currently on 29 months and all i did was to raise concerns that my build would be very delayed. Also said that I got no answers from Dylan when I asked to update me on my build.
I said from the begining that I want the guitat but under the quoted times they gave me. Dylan himself said he is rescheduling his work for the next 12 months and that my guitar is not in that. Also told me he cannot guarrantee even this rescheduling timelines. He never said when my guitar will be in schedule, please do not spread misinformation. and i asked for a refund because I did not want to wait. I m sure others with similar wait times like me, will keep their spot.
I don’t understand where is the controversy here.
Just because I expressed some opinions on top of the above situation, it does not mean i had an agenta or anything. That’s ridiculous. I was talking about myself and my opinions

@mehegama, just my 2 cents but you should leave the discussion at that.
Not sure who you're replying to, although I can at least guess among a few people I have on "ignore" that they're not going to back down from their perspective to consider someone else's point of view. If after 29/30 months, you're still not even on the list that Dylan would start to look at in the first 12 months of when he starts to look back at putting his house in order, I don't think you could realistically expect to get a guitar within at least the next 24/30 months. Just look at people who ordered in 2016 and still have had zero news. At this stage, since it would be double what was quoted, I don't know how anyone reasonable could see an issue in preferring to get a refund. The thing here is that some people here are not going to fall into that "reasonable" category and would instead cut absolutely any slack to Dylan over all his buyers just by virtue of some semantics or small caveat emptors in his initial quote. That's their choice, and i don't think the two sides can be reconciled.
At least it looks like unlike those people, the person that actually matters (Dylan) does agree that it was not reasonable so it's good to hear that the refunds are being issued amicably. That way you and the couple of other posters can move on. That's the "least bad" resolution at this stage.

At least I'm sure everyone is looking forward to seeing what Dylan will do in a few years if/once he's done with the current queue and he can start to put his personal artistic vision into his own concept builds.

 

[Jonathan20022]

@mehegama, just my 2 cents but you should leave the discussion at that.
Not sure who you're replying to, although I can at least guess among a few people I have on "ignore" that they're not going to back down from their perspective to consider someone else's point of view. If after 29/30 months, you're still not even on the list that Dylan would start to look at in the first 12 months of when he starts to look back at putting his house in order, I don't think you could realistically expect to get a guitar within at least the next 24/30 months. Just look at people who ordered in 2016 and still have had zero news. At this stage, since it would be double what was quoted, I don't know how anyone reasonable could see an issue in preferring to get a refund. The thing here is that some people here are not going to fall into that "reasonable" category and would instead cut absolutely any slack to Dylan over all his buyers just by virtue of some semantics or small caveat emptors in his initial quote. That's their choice, and i don't think the two sides can be reconciled.
At least it looks like unlike those people, the person that actually matters (Dylan) does agree that it was not reasonable so it's good to hear that the refunds are being issued amicably. That way you and the couple of other posters can move on. That's the "least bad" resolution at this stage.

At least I'm sure everyone is looking forward to seeing what Dylan will do in a few years if/once he's done with the current queue and he can start to put his personal artistic vision into his own concept builds.

No one is saying your concerns were unjustified ... There's nothing wrong with requesting a refund, the mexican restaurant was late, and you definitely should have had the food. But where the restaurant expects some kind of tolerance for a delay you give them an ultimatum, the only amicable solution is to provide a refund and let it go.

The hilarious part about this, is the made up obsessed "unreasonable" Daemoness fanboys is entirely fictional and if Senor mbardu didn't ignore/block people he'd have the context required to realize that no one is faulting @mehegama for getting a refund and he's entirely within his rights to do so since it was offered by Dylan.

@narad isn't being unreasonable in his stances either, he has different tolerances and so do other folks on the waitlist. The discussion was brought into the hypothetical internet courtroom, and the legality of pursuing a non-refundable deposit was discussed based on the fine print provided by the manufacturer. Pretending I, or anyone took the hard stance that people should not get their money back under any circumstances is yet another example of poor comprehension of comments and intentions behind those comments, yet another mirage boogeyman.

 

[mehegama]

No one is saying your concerns were unjustified or that there was any sort of agenda, it was just completely obvious to me and others that your desired outcome was a refund. Several people asked you about this and you said you still would like to get your guitar, but your timeline doesn't line up to realistic expectations for the current build process + pandemic delays. It's not misinformation, you've said multiple times that your guitar isn't going to be ready within the next year (12 Months) so due to that you don't want to have your money held up and wait for the guitar. My point is that no solution other than a refund would have been a satisfactory solution to you, and this was painfully obvious 20 - 30 pages ago.

It's like ordering a burrito for lunch, and you're told it'll be ready for pickup in 15 minutes. Then you show up and it's not ready, and they apologize for any delays telling you that they are working through their queue and your food will be out asap. If in your head, you give them a request of, "I'd like my burrito in the next 60 seconds or I'm requesting a refund". The restaurant will probably just look at you, apologize, then provide the refund, because your timeline expectation does not align with the reality of their process and delays.

There's nothing wrong with requesting a refund, the mexican restaurant was late, and you definitely should have had the food. But where the restaurant expects some kind of tolerance for a delay you give them an ultimatum, the only amicable solution is to provide a refund and let it go.

The refund was obviously the best solution because I was doing the math and it was obvious that there was no realistic way that I would get the guitar on the quoted times plus some reasonable delay. Dylan just confirmed that. Your buritto analogy is not very good as the correct analogy here would have been if they told you that they are doing everything they can and the buritto will be ready asap, but don’ expext it before a weeks time. That s the correct analogy here and this the relative aspect of it and the context i talked about before.

 

[narad]

The refund was obviously the best solution because I was doing the math and it was obvious that there was no realistic way that I would get the guitar on the quoted times plus some reasonable delay. Dylan just confirmed that. Your buritto analogy is not very good as the correct analogy here would have been if they told you that they are doing everything they can and the buritto will be ready asap, but don’ expext it before a weeks time. That s the correct analogy here and this the relative aspect of it and the context i talked about before.

Unless You think Dylan will take 672 times his original estimate to deliver a guitar (so literally two millennia), I'm pretty sure Jonathan's analogy was a lot closer to reality.

 

[mehegama]

Unless You think Dylan will take 672 times his original estimate to deliver a guitar (so literally two millennia), I'm pretty sure Jonathan's analogy was a lot closer to reality.

my point was that the wait time he offered was way more than a reasonable person could accept. We obviously do not agree on what a reasonable wait is so let’s not run in circles here. In any case my issue was resolved amicably so no reason to waste time on philosophical issues.
Again i wish to Dylan and everyone in the queue all the best

 

[SamSam]

my point was that the wait time he offered was way more than a reasonable person could accept. We obviously do not agree on what a reasonable wait is so let’s not run in circles here. In any case my issue was resolved amicably so no reason to waste time on philosophical issues.
Again i wish to Dylan and everyone in the queue all the best

I am glad that we have concluded that a reasonable time lies somewhere between 2x and 672x.

Come on guys, things are being resolved now. People on the list can either get their refund or wait if they wish. We don't need to argue about the semantics.

Let us instead bicker about which Kiesels are the ugliest and fight for the used prestige cause.

 

[StevenC]

Let us instead bicker about which Kiesels are the ugliest

Is it all of them?

 

[SamSam]

Is it all of them?

The vast majority of them. With the potential for Kiesel Edition TM* ruination across the board.