NGD: Most notorius or infamous guitar ever?

[Zeppelinskies]

OP - there is seriously absolutely nothing wrong with owning that guitar. I had the black ESP version of the same (which I sold as it was too rare to get thrashed) and now I own 3 LTD Hannemans - the S&Key, the H Dagger and an original Eagle Inlay. And I am Jewish, with Mischling children and an Indian wife. Anyone who thinks it says something about your ideology or world views is simply wrong. Hanneman is just my favourite guitarist of all time. I'd buy a confed dimebag as well to go with my DFH and dimeslime, but he never played the Dixie Rebel and the standard confed ML is pretty rare

 

[vilk]

it’s not something they could inlay onto a fretboard

How about dead babies?

 

[Zeppelinskies]

I want a Cadi-kill so badly.

 

[TedEH]

I tend to think that hiding or destroying history doesn't do anyone any favours. IMO owning something with (we'll call it historically significant) imagery on it isn't a problem in itself or something to feel guilty about as long as you're respecting the history behind it and keeping that context in mind in terms of it's use/display/etc. If you bought it to take it out to shows where you sing songs about being the superior race or something, you'd have a pretty serious problem. If you bought it for collectors purposes or to make a talking point out of it and can't even show it to someone without bringing up how the imagery makes you uncomfortable - then you're doing the right thing. I mean, it should make you uncomfortable on some level. Putting items like this in the hands of someone who will only ever present it in a context you can learn from is the right thing to do. I wouldn't buy something like this personally because I know I don't have enough knowledge of history to put it in full context - but if you do, then go for it.

 

[olejason]

Soo as a quick question... What's special about those guitars if not the inlays and imagery?

Do they gave any particular unique spec you could not get in another ESP / LTD which means it would make sense to tolerate the nazi stuff?

I haven't kept up with everything ESP/LTD has released but IIRC at the time it was the only guitar they produced in that body shape with a floyd and extra thin-u neck. I bought one around 2004 with the eagles/floyd and still play it every day.

 

[mmr007]

the guitar could be the fucking 2nd coming of christ, you'd have to be some guy to 'tolerate' having SS inlays.

Maybe...maybe not. We've already established I do have an issue with the ideology behind the symbol but allow me to elaborate and hopefully you will understand. To ease the understanding I am going to purposely start with fictional characters and then nonfictional portrayals and then just real. If you are referring to Hanneman putting SS logos on his guitar the "tolerance" you refer to relates directly to your ability to disassociate the criminal act from the criminal motive.

For example, we as a society LOVE horror movies and serial killer slasher movies. They scare and titilate us at the same time. May not be your thing but in general we as a society get off on the Halloween, Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm St movies for example. Serial killers who use butcher knives and pitchforks and chainsaws to kill. And make no mistake we go to the movies to see people die. We are thrilled by the spectacle or they wouldn't have made 40 of these fucking movie sequels combined. And the images are iconic. People cosplay etc as Jason Voorhies, Freddy Krueger and Michael Myers. For the longest time my avatar on this site was michael myers. I have a sticker of him on my guitar and an expensive mask on display in my house.

Now...back to that criminal act vs criminal motive thingy. Suppose that it was later revealed that Michael Myers murdered Judith Myers in 1964 with a butcher knife and hunted Laurie Strode not because they were his sisters but because they were jewish? What if Darth Vader's primary purpose for hunting and killing the rebels was that they worshipped on Saturday?

And cue mic drop....... now. Now we have a problem. We just cared about the killing and not the motive. Didn't matter if the killer killed because a camp counseler killed his mommie or angry parents burned a child molester alive...all motives for the killer to kill were kinda irrelavent but now the motive is...different...and a factor.

For me? I could could not in good conscience use Michael Myers as an avatar or have stickers of him on my guitar or his mask on display because I could not seperate the crime from the motive. I believe Jeff and others like him could and if Michael Myers was the thing that thrilled them...they would continue to let it...and put images of him on their guitar.

Taking it back to the Nazi thing. Semi fictional portayal of Ralph Fiennes as Amon Goeth (very real person) in Schindler's List. On the one hand Goeth is "cool" in the same way as say Darth Vader or Michael Myers as this viscious and capricious serial killer in black leather Hugo Boss uniform and totenkoph emblems and it is natural to be simultaneously thrilled and scared of this personification of evil...the real shit...not the fabricated SAMHAIN shit of the Halloween movies. But I am snapped back to reality everytime I see the scene of the little Jewish girl in the reddish pink jacket..the only color part of the movie and even as a grown man I start to cry. (Yeah I said it so what)

Take it one step further and you have people that for the sake of being edgy use images of serial killers/rapists Charles Manson or Richard Ramirez to establish themselves as someone who flirts with the darkside. There are very few people on earth less evil than these two men and yet they have merch.

So long story...not so short...I agree with you and your attitude towards the SS symbols but I won't condemn someone who likes them until I know their motive for doing so and I believe Jeff just really like the pinnacle of wicked imagery and was able to seperate criminal act from criminal motive

 

[Demiurge]

For example, we as a society LOVE horror movies and serial killer slasher movies. They scare and titilate us at the same time.

That's usually where I go when thinking about metal's fascination with evil. Then again, I think society in a larger sense shares a similar fascination; also popular are true crime stories, murder procedurals, gangster movies & shows (where the gangster is the protagonist), and war docs & movies. Maybe entertaining these morbid things in a compartmentalized manner is healthy- and perhaps necessary- while living in current times.

Can fascination twist into something else? Sure, but if Jeff said that he didn't endorse the Nazi stuff- believe him but also believe he probably lost not a single night's sleep over concern whether people thought otherwise because being provocative is part of the act. Now that he's gone and his sigs are still out there, it seems exhausting to have to explain to everyone, "Yeah, the guy didn't believe in it and neither do I, but it's a sick guitar."

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

HNGD OP- glad you were able check this one off and good on the kid for pushing you to it.
It's got value to you, you think it's cool and wanted to own it. Nobody else's business, end of story. I like your son's style, lol.

 

[mastapimp]

Stuff like this makes me wonder if 50 years from now some up-and-coming metal guitarist is gonna get ESP to make them a guitar with some Q-Anon bullshit inlays and claim to have historical interest in the storming of the capitol. The story of the Q-Shaman will live on through his guitar.

 

[DoubleAA]

That's outlawed in Germany, and I hope you don't have any Jewish friends. I love a lot of Jeff's writing, but the edgelord nazi stuff is just cringe anymore. some people saying "erasing history" like anyone is gonna forget about wwii because they haven't seen any nazi symbolism in a while.

ugh

 

[DoubleAA]

as far as the horror movie stuff. Jason Voorhees is fantasy. He didn't kill six fucking million Jewish people. Richard Ramirez also raped little kids. His story is academically interesting, but I'm not wearing a shirt with his face on it.

 

[Supernaut]

This thread is so embarrassing. Obviously, OP is not a nazi for owning this guitar. Obviously, you need to be respectful and have compassion when talking about an event that killed six million people. Obviously, Jewish comedians joke about the holocaust. Does that give everyone the right to joke about it? It's a grey area, so just act with a little compassion and intelligence.

 

[Blytheryn]

The absolute best part about this thread is the touchy people who don’t even belong to the minorities targeted by the political party’s symbology displayed on the fretboard.

It’s just a guitar.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

The absolute best part about this thread is the touchy people who don’t even belong to the minorities targeted by the political party’s symbology displayed on the fretboard.

It’s just a guitar.

I like how all these people with under 50 posts are coming in here getting butthurt over what are by far the LEAST offensive hanneman guitars. I mean look at this thing:

Absolutely disgusting. just like Heineken.

 

[TedEH]

don’t even belong to the minorities

I mean, I'm not even a beer drinker and I'm offended by that last picture.

 

[mmr007]

That's outlawed in Germany, and I hope you don't have any Jewish friends.

As stated in many posts in this thread I have had many close friends who are holocaust survivors...does that count? They're Jewish, right?

Honestly your response and post means you either didn't read any of this thread or had difficulty comprehending it.

 

[Viginez]

so slayer doesn't have any jewish fans?
the guitar was always just part of the show/presentation of the songs, if any, it brings awareness to the theme

 

[MaxOfMetal]

The absolute best part about this thread is the touchy people who don’t even belong to the minorities targeted by the political party’s symbology displayed on the fretboard.

How would you even know that?

Like, Jews weren't the only group persecuted, not at all. You could be Polish or gay or heck even a communist.

Oh well, we tried. See y'all next Hanneman NGD.