NGD: Vigier Excalibur Surfretter

[kisielk]

I've been kind of obsessing over a bunch of Shawn Lane / Jonas Hellborg albums lately and have always loved the sound of fretless instruments. I already own a Shamisen, a fretless bass, and a Godin A11 Glissentar, but have always wanted a fretless electric. When I learned about the Vigiers and the benefits of the metal fretboards and carbon rod necks, I just knew that I wouldn't want to settle for any other fretless electric or a conversion...

There's only one Vigier dealer in Canada and they told me the lead time is around 10-12 months, and the pricing of even the basic model Surfretters was already a bit of a stretch, so I decided I'd just wait till I found one on the used market. Luckily someone on Reverb was selling one and just happened to have already dropped the price by a bunch, and I managed to negotiate it down some more.. Ultimately I ended up with a flame top version for a fair bit less than I would have paid for a new plain top. Here's some pics:

I've only played it for a few hours so far, but it's basically exactly what I wanted. I'll quickly summarize my thoughts below:

Pros:
* Sounds great for a fretless. The metal fingerboard really does help with sustain.
* Build quality is basically perfect. On par with my Suhr, Music Man, or J.Custom
* Action is ridiculously low, since there's no frets
* I like the sound of the pickups.. I have a Tone Zone in my J. Custom and always liked the sound of it, it works well for the fretless too. P.A.F. Pro in the neck is a nice sound too.
* I like the pickup switching scheme better than standard 5-way switch wiring. Much more useful than having just the middle single coil alone in the middle position. I guess they must use a superswitch to achieve that.
* Flame top is really nice, and not too extreme.
* Neck profile and body shape feel great. The guitar is really light too.
* The fretwork is perfect
* Fretboard doubles as a mirror in case you want to check yourself before heading out.

Cons:
* No locking tuners. For a guitar of this price I really would expect that to be standard.
* Very high fret access / neck heel could be better.

 

[USMarine75]

This has been at the top of my GAS list since the day that Guthrie Govan demo popped up on YouTube!

Please post a follow up review after the NGD has worn off. My only fear was spending $3k+ on a guitar that I was worried wouldn’t get frequent enough play time to warrant the cost.

 

[Bearitone]

God damn i want a Vigier

 

[odibrom]

Fretless guitars are in a different game, they're a totally different beast to tame.

Action SHOULD be as low as possible. Play for a while with a fretless then change for a fretted one and ask yourself "WTF is this in my fingers' way...?"... yah, you guessed, it's the frets...

Action at the nut should be a paper thickness high, very straight neck with little to no relief and allow for some fingerboard buzz, since it is part of the character of fretless guitars. If you're into modding, swap that neck pickup for a sustainer and open the door to new realms... mix some time/pitch based FXs and loopers and discover infinity...

 

[kisielk]

I do have an unused Sustainiac pickup I was think about earlier today. I may just put it in this guitar, that would be absolutely bonkers. I play a lot of ambient music so that would give me some crazy capabilities...

The action at the nut is indeed paper thin.

One interesting thing about the guitar is that the tone changes dramatically once you get to the G string (tuned to F in this case). The E A D strings sound pretty similar so you can play multi-string riffs on them pretty fluidly, but as soon as you move to the G string it sounds like almost another instrument, despite it being a wound G. The B and E strings also have kind of their own character too. I find it is leading me to play more single string melodies on those strings, which is complemented nicely by the fretless nature of the instrument.

 

[BlackSG91]

I've been kind of obsessing over a bunch of Shawn Lane / Jonas Hellborg albums lately and have always loved the sound of fretless instruments. I already own a Shamisen, a fretless bass, and a Godin A11 Glissentar, but have always wanted a fretless electric. When I learned about the Vigiers and the benefits of the metal fretboards and carbon rod necks, I just knew that I wouldn't want to settle for any other fretless electric or a conversion...

There's only one Vigier dealer in Canada and they told me the lead time is around 10-12 months, and the pricing of even the basic model Surfretters was already a bit of a stretch, so I decided I'd just wait till I found one on the used market. Luckily someone on Reverb was selling one and just happened to have already dropped the price by a bunch, and I managed to negotiate it down some more.. Ultimately I ended up with a flame top version for a fair bit less than I would have paid for a new plain top. Here's some pics:

I've only played it for a few hours so far, but it's basically exactly what I wanted. I'll quickly summarize my thoughts below:

Pros:
* Sounds great for a fretless. The metal fingerboard really does help with sustain.
* Build quality is basically perfect. On par with my Suhr, Music Man, or J.Custom
* Action is ridiculously low, since there's no frets
* I like the sound of the pickups.. I have a Tone Zone in my J. Custom and always liked the sound of it, it works well for the fretless too. P.A.F. Pro in the neck is a nice sound too.
* I like the pickup switching scheme better than standard 5-way switch wiring. Much more useful than having just the middle single coil alone in the middle position. I guess they must use a superswitch to achieve that.
* Flame top is really nice, and not too extreme.
* Neck profile and body shape feel great. The guitar is really light too.
* The fretwork is perfect
* Fretboard doubles as a mirror in case you want to check yourself before heading out.

Cons:
* No locking tuners. For a guitar of this price I really would expect that to be standard.
* Very high fret access / neck heel could be better.

I couldn't see the pictures so I hit reply. That is one beauty of a guitar. I've seen videos on the fretless Vigiers by Guthrie Govan. I bet it's fun to play.


;>)/

 

[kisielk]

Yeah something about imgur links on this forum not showing up in posts for other people...

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

super cool!

 

[Jason B]

Vigier uses Schaller OEM hardware and switches. The switch is a Model E Megaswitch. Vigier-branded locking tuners are stock on essentially all other models. The reason they’re not on the Surfreter is because tightening a locking post rod down on 12s isn’t ideal, and you don’t bend strings on a fretless; making eliminating string wraps a non-factor in tuning stability. In short: Any missing functionality is because Patrice Vigier 100% believes it unnecessary.

Not saying I agree with it - That just seems to be the official reasoning.

 

[kisielk]

Apparently on this guitar, which is from 2013, the tuners are Gotoh SG360’s. I agree about the tuning thing, but I still like locking tuners for fast string changes.

 

[Jason B]

Actually, they seem to still be using Gotoh SG360-07s on the Surfreter, and OEM Schaller M6-2000s on everything else. Maybe they just have a box of Gotoh tuners they’re getting rid of one Surfreter at a time.

 

[shadowlife]

That is a beauty.
A Surfreter is on my bucket list of guitars to own. I had a Godin multi fretless years ago, and have always regretted letting it go.

 

[odibrom]

I do have an unused Sustainiac pickup I was think about earlier today. I may just put it in this guitar, that would be absolutely bonkers. I play a lot of ambient music so that would give me some crazy capabilities...

The action at the nut is indeed paper thin.

One interesting thing about the guitar is that the tone changes dramatically once you get to the G string (tuned to F in this case). The E A D strings sound pretty similar so you can play multi-string riffs on them pretty fluidly, but as soon as you move to the G string it sounds like almost another instrument, despite it being a wound G. The B and E strings also have kind of their own character too. I find it is leading me to play more single string melodies on those strings, which is complemented nicely by the fretless nature of the instrument.

A fretless guitar is, as I said before, a different beast to tame. I don't know how to understand that different tone you're finding between the strings. The thing is that fretless guitars do have their own expression and single note riffing is one of them. Whenever I pickup mine I rarely do the kind of stuff I play with the fretted ones (although it is a fantastic exercise to get to really know the instrument). Fretless guitars ask for a completely different phrasing and approach.

The difference you're feeling could be due to the strings in use being old (?) or their type (wound versus flat wound, etc...). I've been using flatwound strings in my fretless ever since I got her working, but mine is a de-fretted one, so I have a wood fingerboard. Regular wound strings would hurt it fast, I guess... String quality (not meaning expensive versus cheap or good versus bad) do interfere a lot with a guitar's tone, more so in a fretless instrument which is way more sensible to the musician expression and play.

I also think that locking tuners aren't just usefull for tuning stability. Fast string changes is a consequence that shouldn't be overlooked by guitar brands, though I find it stupid to use these on double locking bridge systems like the floyd rose. I string my guitars with these bridges from the headstock instead of from the bridge. Since the fretless bridge is not a vibrato, locking tuners should be a norm.

Oh, last but not least, I missed it on my previous post, congrats on the new guitar!

 

[BananaDemocracy]

Your right, the quality is same as prs,EBMM,Suhr.....in fact I think the best neck in the world is the very neck you describe....the graphite truss rod makes that thing stable as a steinberger, and the finish is perfect...but to be honest , you gotta be very good to make s freless sing, even if it is the best fretless on earth like yours, so don’t be discouraged if it takes adjustment

I’d go so far as to say it’s the best electric luthiers wise I’ve ever touched, but they are so expensive I couldn’t ever justify affording one, maybe s used but to get a new vigier?.....lucky man,very nice HNGD

Congrats

 

[Jason B]

the graphite truss rod makes that thing stable as a steinberger

There is no truss rod. It’s many times more stable than a full-carbon Steinberger neck with adjustable relief, and the (minute) seasonal adjustments I make to my Steinbergers holds true to this.

 

[luciformheart]

Happy NGD, that is very cool!
I really wanna try out a fretless guitar, but I've never seen one IRL.

 

[kisielk]

There is no truss rod. It’s many times more stable than a full-carbon Steinberger neck with adjustable relief, and the (minute) seasonal adjustments I make to my Steinbergers holds true to this.

This was really evident when I was changing strings yesterday. Even after I had taken 5 of them off the action of the high E was pretty much the same as it had been with the other 5 on there. Completely stable..

 

[yuri_1973]

Happy NGD !!

 

[yuri_1973]

Happy NGD !!!
As a Vigier fan, I also have a Surfreter in my bucket list.
Very nice flamed top btw !