Noob questions on recording (Pod HD, Reaper)

[Rizzo]

Hi there guys. Some time ago i did my first recording tests wiht Reaper and my HD500. They were done with an acoustic (plugged it 'cause it had a preamp) and some vocals. I used my FRFR Mackie SRM (that i use with the HD500) as a "monitor" as it was just a rough test.
I have some general questions for you:

1. General recording levels
I recorded everything with the Pod's master at noon to avoid any potential clipping, but the final tracks output dbs were greatly below the 0 db line, making them barely audible in a final rendered track (unmixed-unmastered).
Regarding vocals: similarly, i kept the mic's input gain at noon to avoid issues. Is that a "right" situation to start off?

Do i have to boost the Pod's master? Or do i have to leave it like that and adjust the tracks dbs manually afterwards (boosting\cutting dbs)? Or, again, do i have to just keep eveything like that and wait for the mixing-mastering process to take care of all that? I just have no idea.

Additional question: how do i get the best headroom-dynamics in recording, given the reaching of decent audible levels?
I'm not a "loudness" guy.

2. Volume issues between tracks
At the end of the test (did 5-6 different tracks) everything was, naturally, scrambled up. Vocals were buried far below guitars, guitars themselves were inconsistent etc.
Again, how do i treat this? Doi have to adjust dbs accordingly, or do i have to wait for the mixing-mastering process to balance things out? Just give me a general sight.

3. Headphones VS Monitors
I have a really s*itty place to make my music. The room is an architectural abortion and has really awful design to complement music production (asymmetrical, one open side: 3 walls basically, tiles on the floor, full of furniture, recessed windows etc etc and lots of anti-acoustic stuff).
So i'm thinking buying monitors wouldn't be a really smart choice and i was straight headed for a pair of decent headphones (i'm not willing to spend a dime on acoustic treatment for that room). Is that a reasonable choice, or are monitors nonetheless needed in the mixing process, disregarding room acoustics?

Also, is there something like a general recording\mixing\mastering guide to read that you could address me to?
Thanks, i'm just beginning with home recording.

 

[PlumbTheDerps]

Hi there guys. Some time ago i did my first recording tests wiht Reaper and my HD500. They were done with an acoustic (plugged it 'cause it had a preamp) and some vocals. I used my FRFR Mackie SRM (that i use with the HD500) as a "monitor" as it was just a rough test.
I have some general questions for you:

1. General recording levels
I recorded everything with the Pod's master at noon to avoid any potential clipping, but the final tracks output dbs were greatly below the 0 db line, making them barely audible in a final rendered track (unmixed-unmastered).
Regarding vocals: similarly, i kept the mic's input gain at noon to avoid issues. Is that a "right" situation to start off?

Do i have to boost the Pod's master? Or do i have to leave it like that and adjust the tracks dbs manually afterwards (boosting\cutting dbs)? Or, again, do i have to just keep eveything like that and wait for the mixing-mastering process to take care of all that? I just have no idea.

Additional question: how do i get the best headroom-dynamics in recording, given the reaching of decent audible levels?
I'm not a "loudness" guy.


Things to remember about recording, and recording with the POD (I have an HD Pro, but I think most of this is the same):

Go into your audio preferences settings in your computer and find the POD. The default is set to +18db input level. You definitely don't need this for guitars or bass, but you may need some of that juice for a microphone, because the POD's preamp is kind of weak.

To figure out what input adjustment setting is best, go into the POD, make sure you're using a patch with nothing on it, set to microphone input, and make new track in Reaper. Monitor it and look at the master bus. Use the RMS level (the slower-moving meters) and figure out where you can set the POD input so that the level of your instrument/voice/whatever is consistently hitting around -18db. The mic gain input is your other "tool" for adjustment here, so try setting it to noon to begin with and modify from there.

There is no pod "master" that affects the signal volume. There are input controls on the POD HD 500 Edit program, but the "master" on the POD just controls how loud the unit is as an interface, not your instrument volumes or anything.

Recording in general: Just Google "gain staging" and watch some videos. Essentially, you want all your tracks to be hitting -18db (or "dbfs") RMS, and probably peaking (the fast-moving, blue meters) at around -6db peak on the master bus (the individual track meters are peak, not RMS, so ignore them).

To make sure your readings are correct, right-click the master bus meter in Reaper and it may have it automatically set to +12db "display gain" or "display offset." Set these to zero so you can monitor normally. If they're already set to 0, no harm no foul.

Another way to measure this is using a VU meter, which exist as stock plugins in Reaper or with any number of plugins like the Slate Digital VCC. Here, -18dbfs (or thereabouts) equals 0dbvu. VU meters are replicas of old analog gear, which is why 0db is the "desirable" value; analog gear doesn't create harshness the same way digital clipping does.

tl;dr always record tracks at -18db RMS/dbfs/0 VU on the master bus- they're all about the same value.


2. Volume issues between tracks
At the end of the test (did 5-6 different tracks) everything was, naturally, scrambled up. Vocals were buried far below guitars, guitars themselves were inconsistent etc.
Again, how do i treat this? Doi have to adjust dbs accordingly, or do i have to wait for the mixing-mastering process to balance things out? Just give me a general sight.

You can use the faders on your individual tracks, but it's always preferable to adjust the input volume on the POD so that, while monitoring in real-time, your volume is at -18db RMS. So to recap, your tools to adjust this, in order of the signal chain, are:

1. Your instrument
2. Your POD's input value in your audio preferences pane
3. Your microphone preamp gain on the POD unit itself, if you're using a mic
4. Any effects you have turned on in the POD and their volumes
5. The volume of individual items of audio in Reaper (i.e., the waveform)
6. Any plugins on your track in Reaper
7. The fader- but remember, the fader adjusts the volume AFTER all the plugins.

But generally speaking, you always want the volume to sit at -18db before it ever hits Reaper.

3. Headphones VS Monitors
I have a really s*itty place to make my music. The room is an architectural abortion and has really awful design to complement music production (asymmetrical, one open side: 3 walls basically, tiles on the floor, full of furniture, recessed windows etc etc and lots of anti-acoustic stuff).
So i'm thinking buying monitors wouldn't be a really smart choice and i was straight headed for a pair of decent headphones (i'm not willing to spend a dime on acoustic treatment for that room). Is that a reasonable choice, or are monitors nonetheless needed in the mixing process, disregarding room acoustics?

You need monitors and good headphones. Headphones are going to help with "little" things like sucking out resonances and fizz nodes, and mixing the bass and kick drum. Monitors are going to be essential for everything else. Treatment is awesome but monitoring only on headphones is going to skew your perspective of what the music sounds like. Yamaha HS5's are pretty cheap and well-loved around here and on the Andy Sneap forum, and Audio Tecnica ATH-M50s are used by lots of people for headphones, including myself.

Also, is there something like a general recording\mixing\mastering guide to read that you could address me to?
Thanks, i'm just beginning with home recording.

You need to acquaint yourself with the basics of recording, like levels and how to use your DAW and stuff, and how to use the POD. For the first, just watch all the Recording Revolution's 5 Minutes to a Better Mix YouTube videos. They're fantastic and easy to understand. Take notes and everything. For the POD, read Meambobbo's POD guide (just Google it). It's long, but he explains all the input and techy stuff in-depth so you understand how to use it. Also read the manual, as many times as you need for it to sink in. None of this is fun, but it's going to prevent you from making dumb mistakes.

On mixing/mastering...mastering is a whole thing unto itself, but as for mixing, I can't recommend Ermin Hamidovic's Systematic Mixing Guide pdf enough. It's like $15 or something, and it's an amazing intermediate-level overview of how to mix once you've recorded everything.

For mastering, Izotope (which makes Izotope Ozone, arguably the best low-priced mastering software) has a free PDF guide on their website. Also, I think Slate Digital's FG-X mastering plugin suite is half-off right now. I would grab it while you can, since it's not quite as awesome as Ozone but is about a quarter of the price and does the job well enough.

Here are my own bookmarks for plugins and mixing technique references that I use frequently:

The Pro Audio Files | Articles, videos, and tutorials on mixing, recording, production and more.
VST Warehouse | Over 500 Free VST plugins
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=007593470310830667409:4qw46y8lnza
Bedroom Producers Blog - Freeware For Musicians!
KVR: VST Plugins, Audio Units (AU Plugins) & AAX Audio Plugin News, Reviews and Community - plus iOS (iPhone and iPad) and Android Audio App News Too (Virtual Instruments & Virtual Effects)
The Recording Revolution

The Google link searches threads and posts on the Andy Sneap forum, which is a great place to go. I wouldn't post much of anything since they've covered so much, but whenever you have a question just type the search terms verbatim into that engine and you'll almost always come up with something.

there ya go

 

[Rizzo]

Wow, thanks a lot, really! A good bunch of material to study.

 

[Rizzo]

There's some things in which i am in confusion. Where's the actual "+18db" thing in the audio setup? I looked in (i'm on Win7) user CP -> hw & sound -> manage audio devices -> recording -> Pod -> levels and there's a fader that's on 100\100 by default, but changing that while monitoring in Reaper doesn't seem to change anything. However i kept it at 50\100. Can't find any similar option in the Asio CP or in the Reaper options. I made the "gain staging test" by using my guitar and a blank signal path. I keep the inputs on guitar (1), variax (2), auto impedance. With a blank path and playing hard, the signal seems to peak slightly above -18db so it's about ok. But when i switch to a preset, with clean tones it's still quite ok, but one i get to a crunch or a lead tone it clips awfully to 0db and above. So how do i manage that?

 

[PlumbTheDerps]

There's some things in which i am in confusion. Where's the actual "+18db" thing in the audio setup? I looked in (i'm on Win7) user CP -> hw & sound -> manage audio devices -> recording -> Pod -> levels and there's a fader that's on 100\100 by default, but changing that while monitoring in Reaper doesn't seem to change anything. However i kept it at 50\100. Can't find any similar option in the Asio CP or in the Reaper options.

I'm on a Mac, but here:
Page 9-12.

It looks like on Windows it's a check box instead of a slider, but just make sure the +18 db is off- unless you really need it and can't get to -18db without it. It's a POD option, so it would not be in Reaper. Reaper settings (with a couple of exceptions, like latency) ONLY affect what happens once the audio is in Reaper.

I made the "gain staging test" by using my guitar and a blank signal path. I keep the inputs on guitar (1), variax (2), auto impedance. With a blank path and playing hard, the signal seems to peak slightly above -18db so it's about ok. But when i switch to a preset, with clean tones it's still quite ok, but one i get to a crunch or a lead tone it clips awfully to 0db and above. So how do i manage that?

Just turn the volume on the amp down in the POD. Basically just think about your signal path and the different places it can clip or not clip:

1. From the guitar into the POD. To make sure it's not clipping here, use a blank patch and, if needed, modify the input slider and/or18db option from the settings in the picture I just posted. Get it to -18db. So when you do this test, you're seeing how loud your guitar is as it passes into and through the POD. (Also use this method if you want to record dry guitars and use an amp simulation VST in Reaper instead of the POD.)

2. From the POD into the computer. To make sure it's not clipping here, make your POD patch and set everything the way you want it, then use the amp volume (not the input or POD mixer volume) in your patch to get it to about -18db.

3. When you've recorded all your other instruments, your entire mix may start to clip. That's a whole different issue, but the simplest way to avoid this is by using the volume fader on the guitar track so it's lower before it hits the master bus.

 

[Rizzo]

I've got some old roland monitors i could use to try at least. I use to use them as my personal home stereo in my bedroom.
MA-8: Stereo Micro Monitor | Roland U.S.
Considering they only have a jack for connection, what's the most appropriate way to connect them to the Pod? Regular 1\4" out?

EDIT
I finally found Line6's audio-midi CP for the pod. Damn, it hid well
I noticed that the +18 boost wasn't enabled by default, yet the input level was at max. I'm not going to test right away 'cause i don't have time, maybe this evening, but would you suggest that leaving it at 50\100 would be a good compromise? EDIT2: Forgot i have to hit -18db right? So it would be according to that.

 

[Rizzo]

There's a little thing that still confuses me about gain staging.
Let's say i want my level around -18db and peaking around -10db (all of you basically spoke like that while explaining) for a nice headroom (is that right or too low BTW?).

Would it mean i have to be sure to keep my minimum signal always at -18db (not less) and be sure to not exceed -10, or would it mean i can just bump around -18 and going also below? Or again that i want my peak at -18?

I mean, in the tests i made with my acoustic guitar i set the peak level by playing as hard as i could (that is not the level i would play at while tracking) to make sure i cpuld never have clipped and being sure i reached a max of -10\-6 db while doing so. Then i played normally and tried to verify my levels so that i bounced around -18db.
But while tracking and playing "normally", due to the dynamic nature of the instrument, i got really low levels too, with minimums around -30 and maybe sometimes below and around silence levels too (-50) that generated really weak waveforms. So how can i really tell my "right" gain staging? How ca i preserve my playing dynamics while making everything audible? Or do i have to jusn't don't care of the minimum levels until i enter the mixing phase?

Do i have to set my signal and "peak danger" level when playing normally or when playing really hard like i did?

 

[Rizzo]

Bump guys! I can't even start recording until i have clarified that

 

[PlumbTheDerps]

Let's say i want my level around -18db and peaking around -10db (all of you basically spoke like that while explaining) for a nice headroom (is that right or too low BTW?).

Yes, although your peaks are probably going to wind up hitting closer to -5db. Mine always do, mostly from the snare drum.

Would it mean i have to be sure to keep my minimum signal always at -18db (not less) and be sure to not exceed -10, or would it mean i can just bump around -18 and going also below? Or again that i want my peak at -18?

We're talking about two types of meters: RMS, measured in dbfs (this is the -18 one where your tracks should be), and peak, measured in db. If you look at your master bus, most DAWs have both peak and RMS meters. The RMS move much more slowly and hit lower; the peak move more quickly and hit higher.

What you need to do is have each group of tracks (guitar, bass, drums, vocals- don't bother for individual drum pieces) hitting about -18dbfs RMS on the slow-moving meters on a constant basis. Every instrument is going to go below and above -18dbfs once in a while on the RMS meters. If you're playing an acoustic guitar and doing chords on quarter notes, it's going to be -18dbfs on the peaks right when you hit the strings, but most of the time it will be decreasing below that. If you're constantly strumming, then it should be closer to -18dbfs all the time. Don't worry about it- it's just what instruments do. If you achieve that, it will usually mean that they also end up hitting the -5 to -10db zone on the faster-moving, higher peak meters.

The peak meters are most useful for (a) making sure things aren't clipping, because the RMS meters react more slowly than peak, so the peak gives you a better impression of what the absolute maximum levels you're looking at are, and (b) mastering. I usually play back my entire song and look at the peak meters to make sure they never hit above -3db. That means I have at least 3 db of headroom to work with when I master. On a guitar or bass, I usually try to hit around -6db peak. I think -10 is too unrealistically low. If you hit -10 then that's fine, but if you're getting up to -6 or -5 it's not going to be a problem.

I mean, in the tests i made with my acoustic guitar i set the peak level by playing as hard as i could (that is not the level i would play at while tracking) to make sure i cpuld never have clipped and being sure i reached a max of -10\-6 db while doing so. Then i played normally and tried to verify my levels so that i bounced around -18db.

But while tracking and playing "normally", due to the dynamic nature of the instrument, i got really low levels too, with minimums around -30 and maybe sometimes below and around silence levels too (-50) that generated really weak waveforms. So how can i really tell my "right" gain staging? How ca i preserve my playing dynamics while making everything audible? Or do i have to jusn't don't care of the minimum levels until i enter the mixing phase?

Do i have to set my signal and "peak danger" level when playing normally or when playing really hard like i did?

You're overthinking it. Just play what you're going to play in the song on your acoustic and make sure you're not hitting substantially over -18dbfs and about -6db peak. You can always decrease the volume of the waveform a couple of decibels if it goes over and increase the quiet ones. That's called volume riding, and everybody does it all the time, particularly on bass but also on acoustic guitar if it needs it. Later you're going to apply all sorts of compression and move the faders and then add more compression on the master bus. For now, just roughly try to get each instrument group at -18dbfs RMS (remember, also the same as 0db on a VU meter, which you can also use to measure it) and -6db peak.

 

[Rizzo]

Thanks, yeah i'm probably overthinking it. Seems clearer now