Ormsby Rc-One... any out there?

[Dayn]

Might seem trivial being so upset about a few millimeters on a guitar neck, but I think this shows a lot about how the company operates. If Perry is willing to lie about something this trivial, what else is he lying about?

I don't mean to diminish your disappointment and your right to expect what was advertised, but you were offered a complete refund for the exact reason that it wasn't as specified.

If it's 19mm and not 17mm as advertised then that's certainly a reason to give you a full refund. But if you refuse the refund, what else could you possibly expect to be done about it? What more could possibly be offered to you?

 

[Vyn]

I don't mean to diminish your disappointment and your right to expect what was advertised, but you were offered a complete refund for the exact reason that it wasn't as specified.

If it's 19mm and not 17mm as advertised then that's certainly a reason to give you a full refund. But if you refuse the refund, what else could you possibly expect to be done about it? What more could possibly be offered to you?

This is where I'm at with this to be honest. Builder incorrectly lists specs, builder offers refund as a result. That's literally the best case scenario anyone can ask for.

 

[diagrammatiks]

I mean basically it's someone giving you a refund while being like

hey you fucking idiot you want a refund you can have one you little bitch.

 

[SVMMONYR]

I don't mean to diminish your disappointment and your right to expect what was advertised, but you were offered a complete refund for the exact reason that it wasn't as specified.

If it's 19mm and not 17mm as advertised then that's certainly a reason to give you a full refund. But if you refuse the refund, what else could you possibly expect to be done about it? What more could possibly be offered to you?

This is where I'm at with this to be honest. Builder incorrectly lists specs, builder offers refund as a result. That's literally the best case scenario anyone can ask for.

So you both missed the point I was trying to make so I will try to simplify the situation:

1: THE NECK FEELS GREAT! I have no issues with it (other than the major issue being the neck dive, my next point below), BUT if I hadnt checked the ormsby own site, which I did out of pure intuition, this wouldnt have been noticed at all. What he could have offered was some other explanation than blame the eu retailer when their own listing said the same and still does on reverb. ALL I WANTED WAS AN EXPLANATION, WHAT HAPPENED? Instead he made me feel like an idiot and gave no explanation. Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics. Again, most people probably wont give a shit about it, but just interesting to point out. If you are not careful, they might do this to your guitar so a heads up warning.

I noticed this 1 month the guitar was being sent after a almost 2 year wait. Nobody else didnt even notice this before I did. I didnt need/want a refund, just wanted to know what happened. Would have shown some character to admit they fkd up, now it just shows how massive the egos are here (and with every other luthier 4 that matter). These things leave a sour taste.

Again, the neck plays and feels great! Sitting down...

2: The biggest point is the guitar is EXTREMELY neck heavy. I wanted the thing regardless because I didnt have a fanned fret guitar before with a floyd and felt like this wouldnt be a super expensive custom to take out on a gig. Thats out the window now because it's basically playable only sitting down. There are a 100 and 1 workarounds for neck dive but c'mon, this shouldn't be an issue here. Less than idea. Already battled this once with an Ibanez Xiphos and decided it wasnt worth it. The straps should have been better located or the body heavier to have a balanced instrument.

 

[Dayn]

So you both missed the point I was trying to make so I will try to simplify the situation:

1: THE NECK FEELS GREAT! I have no issues with it (other than the major issue being the neck dive, my next point below), BUT if I hadnt checked the ormsby own site, which I did out of pure intuition, this wouldnt have been noticed at all. What he could have offered was some other explanation than blame the eu retailer when their own listing said the same and still does on reverb. ALL I WANTED WAS AN EXPLANATION, WHAT HAPPENED? Instead he made me feel like an idiot and gave no explanation. Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics. Again, most people probably wont give a shit about it, but just interesting to point out. If you are not careful, they might do this to your guitar so a heads up warning.

I noticed this 1 month the guitar was being sent after a almost 2 year wait. Nobody else didnt even notice this before I did. I didnt need/want a refund, just wanted to know what happened. Would have shown some character to admit they fkd up, now it just shows how massive the egos are here (and with every other luthier 4 that matter). These things leave a sour taste.

Again, the neck plays and feels great! Sitting down...

2: The biggest point is the guitar is EXTREMELY neck heavy. I wanted the thing regardless because I didnt have a fanned fret guitar before with a floyd and felt like this wouldnt be a super expensive custom to take out on a gig. Thats out the window now because it's basically playable only sitting down. There are a 100 and 1 workarounds for neck dive but c'mon, this shouldn't be an issue here. Less than idea. Already battled this once with an Ibanez Xiphos and decided it wasnt worth it. The straps should have been better located or the body heavier to have a balanced instrument.

Both issues could've been solved by accepting the refund. If you still want the guitar, that's on you. Turning a mistake over 2mm into some conspiracy and raising prospects of shady business practices when you were offered a full refund over 2mm is really not a hill to die on. I have a hard time imagining a man in Perth rubbing his hands together and scheming at all the savings he'll make by instructing a South Korean factory to make necks that use 2mm more material and concocting some grand scheme to lie to everyone. Especially in Australia where, if you don't get exactly what was advertised, you are entitled by law to a full refund - which you were offered. It's likely purely a mistake or a compromise, and if you want public vindication by way of someone falling on their sword, you're not going to get it. But you did have the option of walking away with all your money back.

You may not get a production run to the exact millimetre, and that's a fair criticism. You'll also be offered a full refund if it's not exactly what's ordered. The disappointment is real and it's raw - but consider what you were offered because of 2mm, and look at some of the absolute clusterfucks posted on here about people losing thousands to builders who have stolen their money. There are so many reasons why guitar builders can be shonky. Offering a full refund over 2mm isn't one of them.

 

[SVMMONYR]

Both issues could've been solved by accepting the refund. If you still want the guitar, that's on you. Turning a mistake over 2mm into some conspiracy and raising prospects of shady business practices when you were offered a full refund over 2mm is really not a hill to die on. I have a hard time imagining a man in Perth rubbing his hands together and scheming at all the savings he'll make by instructing a South Korean factory to make necks that use 2mm more material and concocting some grand scheme to lie to everyone. Especially in Australia where, if you don't get exactly what was advertised, you are entitled by law to a full refund - which you were offered. It's likely purely a mistake or a compromise, and if you want public vindication by way of someone falling on their sword, you're not going to get it. But you did have the option of walking away with all your money back.

You may not get a production run to the exact millimetre, and that's a fair criticism. You'll also be offered a full refund if it's not exactly what's ordered. The disappointment is real and it's raw - but consider what you were offered because of 2mm, and look at some of the absolute clusterfucks posted on here about people losing thousands to builders who have stolen their money. There are so many reasons why guitar builders can be shonky. Offering a full refund over 2mm isn't one of them.

Just pointing out facts, no conspiracy theories here. The neck dive would have been solved by accepting a refund, please tell me how? Did the listing say it has massive neck dive? This is not a hill to die on, the thing plays great, thats it. Just dont expect to buy a shred machine ready for touring/gigs. Not complaining on the playability or craftmaship otherwise, so again, you are missing the point here. The fact that you speculate that Perry is saving money on making thicker necks is so far out there no sane person would come to that conclusion.

Just dont be suprised when stuff like this happens. The guitar plays fantastic, just pointing out that there are issues with it. Dont be suprised if you are getting one that it might not be as advertised.

 

[diagrammatiks]

don't fucking bother arguing with the ormsby stans.

 

[SVMMONYR]

don't fucking bother arguing with the ormsby stans.

yeah, the amount of blind followers this company is unbelievable. Check the facebook group, its truly special. They have endorsed artists that imo can hardly even play guitar. Again, smooth neck, no other build quality flaws (minor finishing imperfections on the back of the guitar and neck joint, very miniscule) but stuff like this needs to be called out

 

[Randy]

I mean basically it's someone giving you a refund while being like

hey you fucking idiot you want a refund you can have one you little bitch.

Perry Ormsby in a nutshell, yeah. I still think the pertinent item is being able to get your refund and cut ties with him.

 

[TheInvisibleHand]

Im confused.... you ordered the guitar. You noticed it was 2mm different than originally expected. You were offered a refund and declined it. You make it a point several times that you still (apart from the neck dive) really enjoy the guitar...

So what's the problem here? You got a guitar you enjoy, but you want to warn people that they too might.....

get a guitar they enjoy?

 

[Randy]

Im confused.... you ordered the guitar. You noticed it was 2mm different than originally expected. You were offered a refund and declined it. You make it a point several times that you still (apart from the neck dive) really enjoy the guitar...

So what's the problem here? You got a guitar you enjoy, but you want to warn people that they too might.....

get a guitar they enjoy?

I think lost in the shuffle here somewhere is the fact Perry was dodgey about his explanations of what happened and a dickhead (as he's famously known to be), and the Ormsby fanbois were full pitchforks and torches ASIDE from the refund thing.

There's some lesson there as far as the way you can expect to be treated by Ormsby et al if your order doesn't go as expected, but yeah, at the end of the day a full refund is pretty much the gold standard for offers on a subpar purchase. Anything above and beyond that is just kinda, idk, filler?

 

[Vyn]

So you both missed the point I was trying to make so I will try to simplify the situation:

1: THE NECK FEELS GREAT! I have no issues with it (other than the major issue being the neck dive, my next point below), BUT if I hadnt checked the ormsby own site, which I did out of pure intuition, this wouldnt have been noticed at all. What he could have offered was some other explanation than blame the eu retailer when their own listing said the same and still does on reverb. ALL I WANTED WAS AN EXPLANATION, WHAT HAPPENED? Instead he made me feel like an idiot and gave no explanation. Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics. Again, most people probably wont give a shit about it, but just interesting to point out. If you are not careful, they might do this to your guitar so a heads up warning.

I noticed this 1 month the guitar was being sent after a almost 2 year wait. Nobody else didnt even notice this before I did. I didnt need/want a refund, just wanted to know what happened. Would have shown some character to admit they fkd up, now it just shows how massive the egos are here (and with every other luthier 4 that matter). These things leave a sour taste.

Again, the neck plays and feels great! Sitting down...

2: The biggest point is the guitar is EXTREMELY neck heavy. I wanted the thing regardless because I didnt have a fanned fret guitar before with a floyd and felt like this wouldnt be a super expensive custom to take out on a gig. Thats out the window now because it's basically playable only sitting down. There are a 100 and 1 workarounds for neck dive but c'mon, this shouldn't be an issue here. Less than idea. Already battled this once with an Ibanez Xiphos and decided it wasnt worth it. The straps should have been better located or the body heavier to have a balanced instrument.

I'm not trying to have a go at you. I'm genuinely sad that you find the guitar neck heavy and that your experience dealing with Ormsby by the sounds of it was shit. However, the perspective that I was trying to add was as far as shitty situations go, being offered a full refund for a guitar and customer service that you are unhappy with is the best case scenario. More of a glass half full way of looking at it.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

This is why you can’t just start cutting and modifying superstrats. If you take away parts of the body to give more fret access you can’t have a fanned fret reverse headstock without extending the rest of the body to compensate.

Strange it wasn’t address with a prototype.

 

[Zhysick]

Well... how could it NOT BE neck heavy? I mean, check the pics... It's OBVIOUS it's gonna neck-dive worse than an baritone ESP Viper... COME ON!

Looks sick as fck, sure, pretty cool and all that but is fking obvious is gonna be neck heavy...

I mean, I have an LTD EX and I fixed the issue but it's also pretty clear that in this Ormsby it is just impossible to fix it.

 

[Dayn]

Just pointing out facts, no conspiracy theories here. The neck dive would have been solved by accepting a refund, please tell me how? Did the listing say it has massive neck dive? This is not a hill to die on, the thing plays great, thats it. Just dont expect to buy a shred machine ready for touring/gigs. Not complaining on the playability or craftmaship otherwise, so again, you are missing the point here. The fact that you speculate that Perry is saving money on making thicker necks is so far out there no sane person would come to that conclusion.

Just dont be suprised when stuff like this happens. The guitar plays fantastic, just pointing out that there are issues with it. Dont be suprised if you are getting one that it might not be as advertised.

"If Perry is willing to lie about something this trivial, what else is he lying about?"
"Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics."

I'm just saying to keep things in perspective. You were given a refund that you were entitled to under the Australian Consumer Law over what some might say was a very minor issue, particularly on a pre-order guitar that had yet to be actually produced and was still being tweaked in development. Yet you were still offered it unconditionally, and you still enjoy the guitar.

I'd been considering the RCOne but I'm going to give it a miss, partly because of the EMG pickups, but mostly because it's an unknown quantity. Reviews of neck dive are enough to put me off of it. I'm getting a Shark in the next few weeks, though, but the preview photos are looking good.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

This is why you can’t just start cutting and modifying superstrats. If you take away parts of the body to give more fret access you can’t have a fanned fret reverse headstock without extending the rest of the body to compensate. Strange it wasn’t address with a prototype.

I wouldn't even say it is the deeper-cut horns that caused the problem. Look how short the body is and how the lower bout has been tapered off to create a reverse offset shape that is essentially the opposite of the usual configuration (as seen on the Jackson Broderick, for example). Removing that much mass from the far end of the guitar is going to shift the balance point.

Rusty may not have noticed the neck-heaviness if the guitar balances okay standing, seeing as he only plays classical-style when seated. That, or the problem may not have been there in the prototypes and custom models.

 

[jco5055]

don't fucking bother arguing with the ormsby stans.

I feel like I've heard some hot and cold stuff about Ormsby...I'll hear he's a dick (and seen the evidence here and on facebook etc), other "trustworthy" youtubers/facebook group guys seem to think Perry's cool as hell (Levi Clay being one of them), then some say that Ormsby Custom Shop/Australian stuff is absolutely top tier, while a friend of mine who goes to NAMM every year and has even worked for multiple SSO-approved companies says the Australian stuff is complete trash and the Korean models are better.

 

[diagrammatiks]

I feel like I've heard some hot and cold stuff about Ormsby...I'll hear he's a dick (and seen the evidence here and on facebook etc), other "trustworthy" youtubers/facebook group guys seem to think Perry's cool as hell (Levi Clay being one of them), then some say that Ormsby Custom Shop/Australian stuff is absolutely top tier, while a friend of mine who goes to NAMM every year and has even worked for multiple SSO-approved companies says the Australian stuff is complete trash and the Korean models are better.

It's almost like Perry has none of the personal responsibility or consistency necessary to good businessman or a decent human being.

He builds good shit quickly for people he likes and wanks everything else all the while hiding behind the well at least you get a refund.

Ola England built an entire guitar company in the time it took Perry to find the next excuse for why his runs are delayed.

 

[Vyn]

In defence of Ormsby (and I'm probably going to get thrown into the Ormsby fanboi bucket if I haven't been already) - All of the runs, even the infamous Run 6 RA's have actually been built and are on the way to those who pre-ordered guys. QC issues/inconsistencies have been met with replacements or refunds, heck there's an argument to be made that the ability to get one's money back is easier than ordering something through Kiesel (there's people on this board who will happily trash Ormsby and then sing praises about Kiesel in the same sentence when both have had documented rocky customer service issues).

So while people may find Perry abrasive/rude, if that is one's bar as to whether or not to order/deal business with the company then that's perfectly fine. Anecdotally Perry hasn't been an arsehole to me, he's been great to deal with, all 7 Ormsby GTRs I've had so far have been fantastic, the Australian built customs I've played (Both of Joe Haley's customs) have been phenomenal and based on that I'm still going to do business with Ormsby.

 

[Jonathan20022]

You know it's super annoying when you basically have a contrary opinion you then turn into a "Stan" or a fanboy unreasonably because you disagree. Spoiler Alert! All Brand-Centric Groups and communities have a super high chance of being cringey and unreasonable collectives of people worshiping the company they want to feed their money to.

I see the same shit with Skervesen and other brands that are regularly delivering guitars to satisfied customers, this is coming from a guy who gave Skervesen a fair amount of shit when they had their weaker season several years back.

Objectively something was changed in the process of the build, and the buyer was offered the option to completely back out of the build. These are production instruments, he's not going to strip the neck down and sand it down to 17mm for him, much less the other guitars. He could have been a little nicer about it, but what did any of you expect/want from him over the mistake? An admission that the spec was mistyped and fell through the cracks probably would have been received well, but does it change the outcome of the situation?

It basically comes down to rhetoric being the problem when interfacing with customers and a blunt back and forth style conversation. But the dude posts container tracking information for everyone to see where in the ocean the entire run of guitars is, he's not trying to fuck anyone over and will often fix people's issues or provide whatever solution fits the situation without any major friction.