RIP Sam Ash. All stores closing

[NoodleFace]

Could've swore sam ash closed their stores 20 year ago. Must be thinking of something else

 

[Rev2010]

I stopped by the Cleveland store when this was announced and the best I saw for discount for stuff I was interested in was 10%, not that great. Store was pretty depressing too. I did see this bass though, if it were 5 string it would have come home with me:

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My ex wife, before we were even married, bought me a 5 string LTD bass, F shape. That bass and my custom Jackson guitar, you can try prying them both out of my dead cold hands. That bass is so awesome and it's on all of my recordings. My link is below always has been for the past few years.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Gotta point out that Sweetwater's ever-growing retail front store has plenty of guitars that are abused by sticky handed teens (and adults).

There was a period of three years when I was the person cleaning those instruments and making the decision whether guitars were still able to ship as "new" or dropped down to demo status.

I tend not to buy new stuff from Sweetwater if I can help it. I'm not paying new prices for a used floor model and my sales "engineer" doesn't really do much to give me price breaks.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Could've swore sam ash closed their stores 20 year ago. Must be thinking of something else

Daddy’s Junky Music closed about 20 years ago.

 

[NoodleFace]

Daddy’s Junky Music closed about 20 years ago.

That might be what I'm thinking of

 

[Seabeast2000]

Could've swore sam ash closed their stores 20 year ago. Must be thinking of something else

Sam Mash did go out of business 20 years ago.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

My ex wife, before we were even married, bought me a 5 string LTD bass, F shape. That bass and my custom Jackson guitar, you can try prying them both out of my dead cold hands. That bass is so awesome and it's on all of my recordings. My link is below always has been for the past few years.

I low key want one of those F shapes in a 5 string.

 

[Grindspine]

I tend not to buy new stuff from Sweetwater if I can help it. I'm not paying new prices for a used floor model and my sales "engineer" doesn't really do much to give me price breaks.

When I was there, I was very picky about making sure that guitars going out as new being in perfect condition. In 2018, I took a promotion to sales and can say that the sales engineer training is intensive. At least at the time, one had to have a ton of audio experience (many with recording school degrees, I had 10 years as a radio tech and 3 years as a pro guitar tech) to even get considered for the position before 13 weeks of additional training.

As far as price breaks, with exception of some manufacturers not allowing any discounting, much of it is up to individual SEs. That environment was really competitive and commission based. I had some ball busting clients who would try to haggle for hours.

If you don't like your SE's price offers, go elsewhere or bring up price matching. Sometimes it works, sometimes it is whatever mood you catch the SE in that day.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

When I was there, I was very picky about making sure that guitars going out as new being in perfect condition. In 2018, I took a promotion to sales and can say that the sales engineer training is intensive. At least at the time, one had to have a ton of audio experience (many with recording school degrees, I had 10 years as a radio tech and 3 years as a pro guitar tech) to even get considered for the position before 13 weeks of additional training.

As far as price breaks, with exception of some manufacturers not allowing any discounting, much of it is up to individual SEs. That environment was really competitive and commission based. I had some ball busting clients who would try to haggle for hours.

If you don't like your SE's price offers, go elsewhere or bring up price matching. Sometimes it works, sometimes it is whatever mood you catch the SE in that day.

I generally go with Sweetwater if/when it is either a demo item or I want to get it next day (assuming I order early enough in the day). I have to ask for "the best price" they can do, and typically just bypass my SE anyways, even though they still somehow/for some reason get a commission, I'm sure.

 

[Buffnuggler]

not to beat a dead horse but guitar stores, with a few exceptions, really offer nothing now except nostalgia/vibe. most good techs just work on their own, the selections are bad, the used section is barren, they dont seem to have any specialized knowledge beyond basic budget models because the manufacturers only give the good stuff to stores that do huge orders. i struggle to think of what they actually offer as a business model besides a cool local fixture and a place to buy strings in a pinch.

also i hate to say this because its a generalization and there are some great stores+it IS clutch to have a place you can get stuff day of, but most stores are just not run that well and have kind of a general contempt for their customers (which i do understand lol). theres always one or two cool guys there who are awesome to see, and again im so grateful to have some local stores for when i need it, but in terms of logic i do see why this is happening. i will miss them but it feels inevitable. if you have a store that you love give them business, but i am never “excited” to go into my local, and i think that kind of tells the whole story.

 

[Grindspine]

I generally go with Sweetwater if/when it is either a demo item or I want to get it next day (assuming I order early enough in the day). I have to ask for "the best price" they can do, and typically just bypass my SE anyways, even though they still somehow/for some reason get a commission, I'm sure.

Yeah, the commission rules are complicated, and have gotten more complicated since I left, according to some other SEs I knew there. That is a big part of why I left; as a newer SE, I had many of my sales sniped by senior sales staff. That never sat well with me. Also, dealing with churches is the worst.

not to beat a dead horse but guitar stores, with a few exceptions, really offer nothing now except nostalgia/vibe. most good techs just work on their own, the selections are bad, the used section is barren, they dont seem to have any specialized knowledge beyond basic budget models because the manufacturers only give the good stuff to stores that do huge orders. i struggle to think of what they actually offer as a business model besides a cool local fixture and a place to buy strings in a pinch.

also i hate to say this because its a generalization and there are some great stores+it IS clutch to have a place you can get stuff day of, but most stores are just not run that well and have kind of a general contempt for their customers (which i do understand lol). theres always one or two cool guys there who are awesome to see, and again im so grateful to have some local stores for when i need it, but in terms of logic i do see why this is happening. i will miss them but it feels inevitable. if you have a store that you love give them business, but i am never “excited” to go into my local, and i think that kind of tells the whole story.

I will say that Sweetwater still has a lot of great techs and luthiers. Most of the guys I knew there have moved off the 55-point inspection area and onto the install shop for when customers specifically request modifications and setups.

Local stores weren't great when I started buying guitars. Sweetwater killed off a lot of the competition in that area. As far as online sales, Sam Ash did not seem like a huge threat to that business model.

 

[lost_horizon]

I'm a simple man, I see anticapitalistic remarks, I press like

What a dog crap take. The natural state of free market capitalism is for things to get cheaper unlike government where everything gets more expensive.

The guitar you buy today such as an Eart can absolutely dunk on a squier from 15 years ago for the same price.

The problem is it isn't a level playing field. Sweetwater is killing it in online sales. Guitar center and Sam Ash can't compete technologically or experience wise. This is the way. Why reward shitty companies?

Plus nowadays actually playing a guitar before you buy it is the last step in the chain. People have already made a commitment to buy based upon online information (companies even lose sales if their online info is crap or misleading).

Why should an online store prop up a physical store? It reminds me of the physical store death of clothes shoppers in the past. The exact same thing is happening now.

In terms of supply it is now right sized, same happened in the car industry. After the GFC toyota was just like 'Produce, produce, produce' and were building a new factory every month. Now some of those plants have closed or relocated and the volumes are matching.

If you were Fender would you crank out 100,000 units right now, no guarantee they would ever sell? Thats a one way ticket to a multi million dollar loss.

In Australia we have a consumer protection rule where warranty liabilities transfer to a permit holder or another outlet that sells the same thing. So if you have an issue with Sam Ash sold stuff in the future you will probably be forwarded onto the third part warranty repair network (Fender approve, Mesa approved etc) for warranty work.

Probably won't be many bargains until the notice on the leases starts running out and they need to desperately clear.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Yeah, the commission rules are complicated, and have gotten more complicated since I left, according to some other SEs I knew there. That is a big part of why I left; as a newer SE, I had many of my sales sniped by senior sales staff. That never sat well with me. Also, dealing with churches is the worst.

I will say that Sweetwater still has a lot of great techs and luthiers. Most of the guys I knew there have moved off the 55-point inspection area and onto the install shop for when customers specifically request modifications and setups.

Local stores weren't great when I started buying guitars. Sweetwater killed off a lot of the competition in that area. As far as online sales, Sam Ash did not seem like a huge threat to that business model.

To be clear, I mean I would order through the website. I'm not sure why my sales engineer would get money despite not really being involved at all, but whatever.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

What a dog crap take. The natural state of free market capitalism is for things to get cheaper unlike government where everything gets more expensive.

The guitar you buy today such as an Eart can absolutely dunk on a squier from 15 years ago for the same price.

The problem is it isn't a level playing field. Sweetwater is killing it in online sales. Guitar center and Sam Ash can't compete technologically or experience wise. This is the way. Why reward shitty companies?

Plus nowadays actually playing a guitar before you buy it is the last step in the chain. People have already made a commitment to buy based upon online information (companies even lose sales if their online info is crap or misleading).

Why should an online store prop up a physical store? It reminds me of the physical store death of clothes shoppers in the past. The exact same thing is happening now.

In terms of supply it is now right sized, same happened in the car industry. After the GFC toyota was just like 'Produce, produce, produce' and were building a new factory every month. Now some of those plants have closed or relocated and the volumes are matching.

If you were Fender would you crank out 100,000 units right now, no guarantee they would ever sell? Thats a one way ticket to a multi million dollar loss.

In Australia we have a consumer protection rule where warranty liabilities transfer to a permit holder or another outlet that sells the same thing. So if you have an issue with Sam Ash sold stuff in the future you will probably be forwarded onto the third part warranty repair network (Fender approve, Mesa approved etc) for warranty work.

Probably won't be many bargains until the notice on the leases starts running out and they need to desperately clear.

Yeah, I agree. That take was pretty weak and lazy.

 

[Wiltonauer]

I tend not to buy new stuff from Sweetwater if I can help it. I'm not paying new prices for a used floor model and my sales "engineer" doesn't really do much to give me price breaks.

I can offer nine data points on this graph. In the last four years I’ve bought six guitars and three bases, all new, from Sweetwater and had them shipped to me. Not a single one showed the slightest sign of having been a demo. I got discounts when I asked.

 

[STRHelvete]

I got my first guitar from a Sam Ash store. Epiphone Bully SG. Sad to see the company to go...oh well, anyways, Y'ALL MUFFUGGAS GOT GUITARS FOR CHEAP?!

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I can offer nine data points on this graph. In the last four years I’ve bought six guitars and three bases, all new, from Sweetwater and had them shipped to me. Not a single one showed the slightest sign of having been a demo. I got discounts when I asked.

I like my sales engineer, but he doesn't go out of his way to have me purchase from Sweetwater vs shopping around and getting the best deal elsewhere. Anyways, I've heard a lot of people who worked at Sweetwater say that floor models and returns have been sold as new. Then again, I've also seen some of the "demos" say "here is a blemish/scratch" and you can hardly see anything.

 

[Wiltonauer]

I liked my local Sam Ash well enough. Most of the people who worked there over the years were laid back and personable. They knew what they were talking about and were worth talking to. They had some real dry spells where the walls were pretty bare. They were never the store to stack ‘em high and sell ‘em low, but they would sometimes have really cool stuff that I didn’t see every day.

 

[spudmunkey]

To be clear, I mean I would order through the website. I'm not sure why my sales engineer would get money despite not really being involved at all, but whatever.

This made me think about a local regional electronics chain, Fry's Electronics. The whole store was staffed with salespeople with seemingly one goal: to get their name attached any potential sale.

I don't know if it was for commission or for sales quotas, but you could be walking by the printer department with an RC car and a DVD, and they would insist you step over to their computer so they could "Write up" your purchase...but you didn't pay for it there. They just gave you a print out with the items listed and saved as an in-progress transaction of sorts. You still had to go to the register to actually complete the sale and pay, and they would still check every item.

So their only purpose was to slow you down, and potentially stop you from continuing shopping in other departments because you've already gone through the hassle of getting your items you had so far printed on a document, which kind of feels like you're "completed", so they could get credit for the sale.

But any time I ever actually needed their help, they were either clueless and not helpful, or lied about the specs, in-stock status, and return policy just to try to close any potential sale they could.

The entire company has since closed up shop after 35 years.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

It happens.

I don't think it's necessarily a window into the industry as a whole, plenty of stores and chains close, we think of long standing ones as somewhat "safe" but any company is a few bad decisions at just the wrong time away from taking a dive.

Guitar Center's stores haven't been real money makers in years, but the online business and a string of behind the scenes sales to different investors and firms who have managed the debt have kept them chugging along. No pun.

I mean, I remember when Mars Music went out of business, folks were saying it was "the end of musical retail" but here we are.

This is sort of how I see it. It is a window into the industry, but not necessarily into its overall health.

Looking in from the outside as a non-American, I'd imagine the doomsaying is mainly from the fact Sam Ash was once a big name in the industry, no? I remember hearing their name thrown around alongside Sweetwater's back in the day, albeit ages ago when Sweetwater was likely a fraction of its current size. How big was Mars Music in comparison?

Retail giants are shrinking their physical presence in many industries now, as well. This has coincided with a period of considerable corporate prosperity, but the writing is sort of on the wall as far as big box stores go.