Split coil + 500k and 250k wiring suggestions

[stinkynutz]

I have one of those cheap Firefly baritones that I am replacing the pickups in it with a JB and Jazz and while I'm at it I'd like to upgrade it with some different tonal options. For those who don't know, the guitar is an HH with 1 vol / 1 tone / 3-way pickup selector toggle. That's a base but I am not afraid to modify in order to achieve the ultimate goal.

ULTIMATE GOAL:
I'd like to be able to coil split each pickup independently and when the coil is split I'd like it to see the 500k volume pot as 250k. Even better if I could coil split independently and choose 500k or 250k regardless if I'm split or not.

I'm unsure of the best route to take to accomplish this. I've read in a few places that a 500k pot with a 500k resistor to increase the resistance to 250k does not sound the same as the signal running through an actual 250k pot nor would the taper of the pot function the same way so although this may be a viable method it may not best the best... maybe? I don't know.

I am not opposed to replacing the tone pot for having 2 volume pots but if that renders the 3-way toggle useless I'd like suggestions on what else that could be used for. I'm open to any suggestions.

 

[odibrom]

First things first: welcome to the forum, interesting first post...

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Suggestion #1 - Freeway 3X3-05 switch. It's a toggle type switch with 6 positions - 2 rows of 3 positions - that allows you to jump from any to any. This switch will allow you to do lots of things in one go.

Suggestion #2 - Seymour Duncan Triple Shot pickup rings. These are pickup rings with built in 2x micro dip switches that are supposed to be used with humbuckers. The 2 micro switches allow you to choose from Series to Parallel and to any of the coils split. If your guitar has pickup rings, this is a must. If it has a pickguard, you can replicate the circuitry of these rings, as there are lots of info on this over the webz... I've done it in 4 of my 7 stringer guitars and both my 6 stringers have these rings installed. Do install these with the switches at the treble strings side and NOT as seyour Duncan suggests at the bass strings side...

These 2 options combined can give you up to 72 different combinations, including out-of-phase combos between the neck and bridge pickups. These 2 suggestions combined are kind of stealth and can be reversible to original state without any damage to a guitar.

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Regarding pots and tone. Pots DO affect tone, even if only the volume pot and even when on max position. It is known that higher value pots will allow more high end frequencies to pass through. All my guitars are loaded with 1 Mega ohm pots for volume and sometimes for tone as well. I do coil splits lots of times and when in single coil mode, I'm still using 1M ohm pots. It is NOT the same as a strat single coil (no humbucker coil split is), but it's a super distinctive tone when compared to a humbucker in series.

Question, why are you set on having the pot/resistance set on 250K when coil splitting and 500k when in humbucker mode?

 

[stinkynutz]

Awesome, thank you for those suggestions. I will look into them right now.

My reasoning is for exactly the reason you mentioned which is to reduce some of the highs when the coils are split. I prefer the idea of being able to flip a switch and roll off highs a precise amount as opposed to trying to roll back the tone knob just right, especially when it comes to recording and repeatability there. Sounds to me like you are essentially saying that I may be trying to do something that just isn't particularly necessary or yields very little benefit.

 

[odibrom]

Awesome, thank you for those suggestions. I will look into them right now.

My reasoning is for exactly the reason you mentioned which is to reduce some of the highs when the coils are split. I prefer the idea of being able to flip a switch and roll off highs a precise amount as opposed to trying to roll back the tone knob just right, especially when it comes to recording and repeatability there. Sounds to me like you are essentially saying that I may be trying to do something that just isn't particularly necessary or yields very little benefit.

No, I'm not saying that, what you're after is nothing new and there are lots of people around the globe doing it. Even brands like Ibanez try to put out guitars that can, somehow, mimic those tones (see the AZ and AZES models). What you seek is doable and functional and has a reasoning too, which is simply what you just said.

DO NOTE that a humbucker's coil split WILL NOT SOUND as a "true" single coil because they are wound with different specs. A humbucker's coil has a considerable less amount of wire winds than a regular single coil and this will affect both the power and tone they'll output. Even hotter humbuckers will have slightly shy single coil splits when compared to "true" single coils.

The reasoning for the different pot value for single and humbucker pickups is about the high end frequencies. The lower the pot's value, the less high end frequencies will pass through, which was a way to tame the single coil sounds way back in 1950's... this was also mirrored by the available amplification and EQ options at the time. Nowadays, it is my opinion that trying to copy those sounds with different gear is kind of irrelevant and there's nothing that some small adjustments in EQ can't do in a good recording. Personally, I like to have my pickup's sounds the less filtered possible at the guitar and let the processing be at the FXs level in the chain, but this is all a matter of personal preference. Your's is as good as mine or any's.

In order to nail the that strat/tele sound, one should get the same spec'ed gear, all other options will be a compromise. My approach is a bit different, I'm looking for different unfiltered (as much as possible) sounds from my pickups and I like to explore those sounds. I rarely use the tone knob on my guitars that feature one, and some have already lost those in favor to piezo volume knobs for example...

My saying here is JUST a suggestion on how to get different tones, similar to those you're after. If you'll go with the TripleShot rings, these will not allow you to place resistors in the the signal path to mimic the strat's sounds. However, if you'll replicate their schematics using miniswitches, you might be able to do that (I haven't tried).

I also suggest you to visit/join the Guitar Wiring facebook group. Lots of acknowledged people there that do these things for a living and are super helpful.