Switching Keys!

[coreypla]

First time poster on this thread! A pre-emptive: Sorry for wasting everyones time! I am new to music theory but have been playing a lot of music for a long time. Really what I mean is that I am new to obsessing over music theory haha! I don't know a lot of the terms, so sorry if I get them wrong! Also, I play rock guitar. Not sure if that matters here.

I was wondering if there would be a good chord to help me glue together (or transition from) B natural minor into F# major?

I was thinking C# dim 7 but that doesn't seem to be "perfect" for both keys. And I think that has some B flat in it? This is not in B minor, but could pull into F# major (its the third note in the scale)?

Then I was thinking about leading tones (or tendency tones actually). I thought that maybe A# would be okay, since A# is a leading tone into B minor (but outside the scale), and A# minor is a chord in F# major (the third I think). I feel that this would work better to move out of F# major and back into B natural minor. So I'm back to wondering if there is a better way to move from B natural minor into F# major without making too many pitstops along the way.

Like I said, I'm really clueless with this stuff. So this opens a few other questions:

Is it possible to move between any two keys safely? Is there some gradient in doing this? Where one can realistically do what one wants. But there are keys that we can move between effortlessly, and others that require more work, and others that will likely always feel abrupt without moving through some other keys first. Like road trips of varying distance. Easy to go from adjacent cities, or states. More involved to go across countries or continents.

Let me know what your opinions are! I just want to hear from you all!!!

 

[Hollowway]

Why do you need to actually switch keys? I’m just curious what the piece is trying to do. Depending on that you could decide if you want it jarring, or subtle, or jazzy, or whatever. If you want a super strong pull, just set up something that resolves well to a chord in the next key. But if you can give a specific chord progression, @Mr. Big Noodles might come in and drop an IQ 190 level of theory for you. He knows more about theory than you or I will ever know. Which doesn’t get me as depressed as you might think, because I have a reasonably large penis.

 

[Winspear]

So let's look at the scales
B C# D E F# G A

F# G# A# B C# D# E#

So yeah, they are pretty distant from another. There is indeed a gradient like you said, but if you desire, it can always be transitioned smoothly utilizing more steps (*spoiler alert!)

Let's look at some short options though

Perhaps you know V or V7 in the new key is a good resolution. So that would be
C# E# G# B (C#7) > F# A# C# (F#maj). If you're curious, my knowledge on what I'm going to do in this post ends here. I have no ideas yet.

What's an unstable chord in Bm? The iidim. C#EG. Could be used as the last chord before resolving back to Bm in the normal 'looping' Bm key progression. (Fig 1)

What if we split that bar in half before the key change and go C#dim > C#7 > F#maj
C#EG > C# E# G# B > F# A# C#
Let's throw the 7th on the C#dim too for a nice sustaining B voice. That can resolve down to the A# of the F#maj and will be nice and strong after sustaining across two chords, a tritone in the second case.
C#E G B > C# E# G# B > F# A# C# (Fig 2)

It works perfectly. The unstable tritone (C#G) in the C#dim is resolved by the chromatic move up to E# and G# in the next chord. The unstable tritone in that (E#B) is resolved by to F#A#.

Even the original C#dim resolves to F#maj quite well without the V7 shared chord inbetween! (Fig 3) C# E G B > F# A# C#
Why? Tritone C#G resolving to C#F#. They almost sound like they could be in the same key...What would that be? F# G A# B C# D# E. Pretty close. Just a b2 and b7 away from F# major. Flat the unused D# too and you have F# phrygian dominant - a mode of B harmonic minor! So you've got a shift from Bm > B harmonic minor / F# phrygian dominant > F# major. This reminds me, that it can be useful to see if there are some closely related alternate scales that may share the goal key chord. Then it just becomes a question of how to shift to a parallel scale in the same key.

*As mentioned above, smoothly using more steps! In this steps were effectively added as a bonus without extending time. No wonder it works so cleanly.

As a side note, smooth voice leading to accentuate sustained notes and facilitate chromatic motion will make damn near anything work well. Even if it's not a pulling harmonic resolution, it will be smooth. Good exercise - pick two random chord names, write them down with 2 spaces inbetween, voiced as closely as you can. Make each voice of the chord into a 4 note melody to bridge the gap without paying so much attention to what chords you're building in the middle, so long as they sound good. Again, sustained notes, stepwise, and chromatic motion. Mix them up. If it looks smooth on the page and the chords sound ok in isolation, it'll sound fine. Analyse the chords afterwards if you like Another good exercise is to start commenting on random keychange threads and hope you can dig up an answer by the end of your post ..

 

[Daniel Marino-Austin]

B min -} Bb aug -} D Maj-} G# half-dim 7-} F# Major

B min -} E#dim7 -} F# Maj

B min -} B min7 -} C#7 -} F Maj

B min -} G dim7 -} C# half-dim7 -} F# Maj

B min -} F Maj Phrygian (flamenco mode comprised of F#.G.A#.B.C#.D.E)

B min -} C# half-dim 7 -} F Major Phrygian

B min -} E#maj-} F#maj

Hope these help with ideas.

 

[DudeManBrother]

The easiest way, IMO, is to pivot off of a D maj chord. The 3rd of Dmaj is F# (min), so you can end the riff with an F# min and begin the next section with the F# maj; or simply use the F# major if you like.

You could also use a Gmaj (V of B minor) to chromatically voice lead into G#min (ii of F# major); then quickly hit C#(7) and end on F#maj (V7-I) to establish the new key. A G#dim can substitute the Gmaj as well. This method could yield more interesting results but that doesn’t mean it’s better or worse than something simple like using the Dmaj chord.

 

[Drew]

You could also use a Gmaj (V of B minor) to chromatically voice lead into G#min (ii of F# major); then quickly hit C#(7) and end on F#maj (V7-I) to establish the new key. A G#dim can substitute the Gmaj as well. This method could yield more interesting results but that doesn’t mean it’s better or worse than something simple like using the Dmaj chord.

Being pedantic here... but that's actually the VI of B minor, F# is itself the V of G major.

...which itself points to one possible solution - if you're switching keys to F Major, then you could certaintly try going to the V chord, F#m or F#m7, and then from there inject a little bit of harmonic minor with a F# major or F#7, and then start treating that as your tonic. Depending on what the song is doing, that might work.

The other thing I'd try - the resolution from a V7 to a I is so strong that your ear will almost always accept that I as the tonic, even if it previously wasn't. So, if you want to end up in F# major, resolving from a C#7 to a F# major will take you there, so you just have to find a way to get to a C#7 (C#, E#, G#, B) out of B minor. Relative to B minor you have the 2nd, the #4, the #6, and the root. Two of those tones clash, the #4 and #6, but some times doing shit that shouldn't work just does, especially if you can work one of those tones into the melody line, so that alone might be enough. If not, you just need a reasonably smooth way to get from a B minor enharmonic chord to a C#7. I'm writing this without a guitar and at work so I can't actually try this to see if my ear "buys" the resolution, but if two of those pitches are a half step too sharp, that kind of suggests a descending chromatic resolution might work. Which actually gets you to what DudeManBrother suggested at the start of his post - I wouldn't be shocked if a D-C#7-F# cadence would work pretty well, you would have a reasonably strong cadence into the two non-scale tones, which themselves would set up the new key of F#.

Going the other way is bone simple - at some point, just drop the 7th in the F# to set up a F#7-Bm resolution.

 

[FwLineberry]

Is it possible to move between any two keys safely? Is there some gradient in doing this? Where one can realistically do what one wants. But there are keys that we can move between effortlessly, and others that require more work, and others that will likely always feel abrupt without moving through some other keys first. Like road trips of varying distance. Easy to go from adjacent cities, or states. More involved to go across countries or continents.

Since you don't give any example of what you're working with, it's pretty hard to give any specific ideas..

The first thing that comes to mind for me is F#min being the v of B minor and F#maj being the V of B minor. That should make for a pretty easy transition into the key of F# major by just getting to the V chord of B minor and making that chord the tonic of the new key.

 

[fantom]

This video might really help (especially the part on using several key changes for a bigger jump)

For the straightforward V-I cadence, you need to resolve a tritone of the F# key's V chord. This is C#7 (From C# E# G# B, E# & B are the important notes here for the tritone). You can swap some notes around and keep these (most common would be the tritone substition, which is G7 using G B D E#).

Since you are trying to go from Bm to F#, you do have a slight problem. F# is the V of Bm, and that will be really hard to resolve the F# without sounding like a tension chord. If you want to go straight from F#m to C#, I would suggest ending your progression with a ii-V-i, but delaying the ii the last time it is played. You really want it to sound like it is the V and not the ii. Something like...

Bm-<more chords>-C#m-F#m-|-Bm-<more chords>--C#m-<delay this chord>-|-F#Maj-<more>

You could even play the C# as a sus chord into a major, like C#sus11 or C#sus9 into C# or C#dom7

You could also use a Gmaj (V of B minor) to chromatically voice lead into G#min (ii of F# major); then quickly hit C#(7) and end on F#maj (V7-I) to establish the new key. A G#dim can substitute the Gmaj as well. This method could yield more interesting results but that doesn’t mean it’s better or worse than something simple like using the Dmaj chord.

As mentioned above, this is just a tritone substitution of the C#dom7 chord (V of F#Maj). So that is why it works going GMaj->C#Maj->F#. You don't even need the C#Maj chord (or you can invert the order).

Being pedantic here... but that's actually the VI of B minor, F# is itself the V of G major.

Huh? How is F# the V of GMaj? It is the VII.

 

[DudeManBrother]

Haha yes, just a typo: I meant VI not V, and I’m pretty sure that Drew meant V of B minor; but it’s good to state the corrections for anyone that reads this stuff and doesn’t understand.

 

[Drew]

Huh? How is F# the V of GMaj? It is the VII.

What @DudeManBrother (and yeah, should have guessed that was a typo, sorry dude!) said - F# is the V of B minor.

 

[coreypla]

Whoa! To be honest, I got swept away with the holidays and didn't think there would be many replies to this! This is incredible!!!

I can definitely give more info on this...but just an FYI, I barely know what I am doing here. I play by ear, and discover music theory by ear..I'm trying to reverse some of that, if that makes sense. But I can't read music and have very limited knowledge to this stuff.

The chords that I am playing (and these are BARELY chords, they each only have two notes, but with a reasonable amount of intervalic-ness to them...they sound okay to me at least).

The part in B natural minor has a chord progression that goes (lower note first, higher note second)

Think 8 counts for each chord, whatever that means....

(B D) - (G Gb) - (B D) - (D B) then repeats
(B D) - (G Gb) - (B D) - (D B)

then after that (D B) chord, we move to the F# major section with chords:

(Gb Bb) - (Bb Gb) - (B Ab) - (Ab F) all with 8 counts

then the last bar in F# major has a cool walk during the second and fourth blocks, so it goes:

(Gb Bb) x 8

(Bb Gb) x 4

(B Ab) - (Db Bb) - (Gb Eb) - (F Db) all one count, fast walk up

(Eb B) x 8

(Db Bb) x 4 then (B Ab) x 4


and its after that chord with the (B Ab) that I return to B minor with the (B D) chord.


If that doesn't make sense, its like this:

(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)

(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)

(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)

(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)

then repeats

(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)

(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)-(G Gb)

(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)-(B D)

(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)-(D B)

now major

(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-

(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)

(B Ab)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)

(Ab F)-(Ab F)-(Ab F)-(Ab F)-(Ab F)-(Ab F)-(Ab F)-(Ab F)-


and the second time around things get barely more interesting

(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-(Gb Bb)-

(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(Bb Gb)-(B Ab)-(Db Bb)-(Gb Eb)-(F Db)

(Eb B)-(Eb B)-(Eb B)-(Eb B)-(Eb B)-(Eb B)-(Eb B)-(Eb B)

(Db Bb)-(Db Bb)-(Db Bb)-(Db Bb)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)-(B Ab)


and then back to the B minor progression.


Sorry that this is probably the worst way to explain my idea.

I think what matters here is that I am trying to move the B minor chord with notes D and B to the F# Major chord with notes Gb and Bb

as it is right now, its a bit jarring...I have a lead part that is helping out by playing a Db (or C#) right at the moment that the keys switch, so its jarring, but believable.

I'm still looking for a better way to approach this though. Let me know what you think or if I can provide any extra details or anything!

And again, thank you for every single post here! I am going to be reading over and obsessing all the information...hoping to learn something!

 

[FwLineberry]

Whoa! To be honest, I got swept away with the holidays and didn't think there would be many replies to this! This is incredible!!!

I can definitely give more info on this...but just an FYI, I barely know what I am doing here. I play by ear, and discover music theory by ear..I'm trying to reverse some of that, if that makes sense. But I can't read music and have very limited knowledge to this stuff.

The chords that I am playing (and these are BARELY chords, they each only have two notes, but with a reasonable amount of intervalic-ness to them...they sound okay to me at least).

The part in B natural minor has a chord progression that goes (lower note first, higher note second)

Think 8 counts for each chord, whatever that means....

(B D) - (G Gb) - (B D) - (D B) then repeats
(B D) - (G Gb) - (B D) - (D B)

then after that (D B) chord, we move to the F# major section with chords:

(Gb Bb) - (Bb Gb) - (B Ab) - (Ab F) all with 8 counts

then the last bar in F# major has a cool walk during the second and fourth blocks, so it goes:

(Gb Bb) x 8

(Bb Gb) x 4

(B Ab) - (Db Bb) - (Gb Eb) - (F Db) all one count, fast walk up

(Eb B) x 8

(Db Bb) x 4 then (B Ab) x 4


and its after that chord with the (B Ab) that I return to B minor with the (B D) chord.


[snip]

Sorry that this is probably the worst way to explain my idea.

I think what matters here is that I am trying to move the B minor chord with notes D and B to the F# Major chord with notes Gb and Bb

as it is right now, its a bit jarring...I have a lead part that is helping out by playing a Db (or C#) right at the moment that the keys switch, so its jarring, but believable.

I'm still looking for a better way to approach this though. Let me know what you think or if I can provide any extra details or anything!

And again, thank you for every single post here! I am going to be reading over and obsessing all the information...hoping to learn something!

The (D B) to (F# A#) sounds fine the way it is to me, but I don't know how you're actually playing it, so who's to say. If you just have to do something with it, you could go (D B) (F# B) (F# A#) which is Bm F#sus F#maj or (D B) (C# B) (F# A#) which is Bm C#7 F#maj.
.

 

[fantom]

(B D) - (G Gb) - (B D) - (D B) then repeats
(B D) - (G Gb) - (B D) - (D B)

then after that (D B) chord, we move to the F# major section with chords:

(Gb Bb) - (Bb Gb) - (B Ab) - (Ab F) all with 8 counts

then the last bar in F# major has a cool walk during the second and fourth blocks, so it goes:

(Gb Bb) x 8

(Bb Gb) x 4

(B Ab) - (Db Bb) - (Gb Eb) - (F Db) all one count, fast walk up

(Eb B) x 8

(Db Bb) x 4 then (B Ab) x 4

IMO, this progression never changes keys.

First part is Bm G Bm Bm Bm G Bm Bm. It is hard to tell the G/A# diad without melodic context, but it looks like the overall sound is very tonic with a substitution of i-Vi-i-i.

The next part, Gb Gb Fdim Fdim Gb Gb Gb (walk up*) B Bbm**
* the walk up looks to be elaborating the Gb chord
** The Bbm diad can also be interpreted as a Gb chord again (without the root)

If you try to read this in the context of Bm, I just see a very long pattern of i-V-bV-V.

Note that the bV can be interpretted in a lot of ways since you picked a diminished triad for 2 bars.

Better explanation here, Bm and G are substitutions and can be viewed as "the tonic" for 32 bars. The next part is dancing around the Gb and Fdim, which are V and flat V chords, which naturally resolve back to the Bm.

This progression is super common for "dark". For example, the classical piece "Mars" does the i-V-bV in the horns.