Talking Cables - Dispelling Myths

[VBCheeseGrater]

This guy rants about the cable myths, particularly stuff regarding monster's lawsuits. Quite entertaining and debate-ably educational. Apologies if this is old news around here.


Discuss....

Personally, i just want something reasonable reliable.

Although, once i have achieved the greatest rig i can come up with, i may start swapping out cables - gotta feed the gas somehow

He cracked me up regarding power cables - "You put it through a meter of this and it's gonna make any difference??? You gotta be SHITTIN ME!!"

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I just make my own cables using parts from Redco. It's super cheap, super easy, and the cables are super high quality, and when I say quality I'm referring to the build.

 

[Jzbass25]

If we're talking guitar cables you have to remember length, capacitance and shielding being a factor in affecting tone (unless you're using an active preamp/pickups). For digital cables don't waste your money and for power cables you just have to worry about the build and shielding. Also this has been talked about here and I think this video has been posted here

I just switched to lava cables, I've tried george L, I built so mogami cables and now I'm trying lava. Personally I like the tone of my Mogami the best I think but the neutrik silent plug broke and I couldn't remove it so I got pissed off and decided to try my hand at lava since Vai seems to like them, but Thomas uses silent plugs on all the lava's he builds for vai.

 

[LuizPauloDT]

I believe in building quality regarding cables. Good soldering, shielding, quality materials. Anything beyond that sounds bullshit to me.

 

[Rook]

I didn't watch the whole video but he started off talking about hi-fi cables.

If you're talking about guitar cables, any and all capacitance and resistance in a cable will load your pickups, no two ways about it. Cables matter but only in terms of quality, shitty cables can be more prone to tone sucking effects than good ones, but a lot of different higher end manufacturers (planet waves, dimarzio etc, not ridiculously expensive) may have subtly different effects depending on the impedances in your guitar but if you don't hear it it doesn't matter.

For reference 1Meg pots go a long way to defeating a lot of cable effects by doing the opposite, and buffers like preamps or active preamps aren't affected by cables at all really.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

Mark Tremonti has said in several interviews that as long as it's built well, copper is copper

The difference in sound that you'll find between a Mogami and something like LiveWire is going to be pretty small, and in a live mix will hardly make a difference if at all.

I switch between a 10-foot LiveWire and an 18-foot Mogami gold cable for bedroom playing and practices/shows and have never found any real noticeable difference between the two other than the Gold is slightly quieter when I'm not using a gate.

 

[Jzbass25]

In the live mix I don't think cables would really be much of a limiting factor, in my room/studio I can really tell between my george l and say my mogami. My george l kills my ears nowadays, it is so bright and brittle sounding. I'm sure certain cables you won't be able to tell a difference since the length to capacitance ratios might make them both nearly equal to the same load overall. But personally I don't care what cables people use as long as they're happy haha, I do think it is sad when people get scammed by monster's hdmi cables though...

I think the confusion in the cable "debate" (even though imo there really isn't one, but I guess that is my cynical EE in me talking) is that there are so many different types of cables and inputs/outputs that many times cables don't matter. Hell I go to monoprice to buy most of my cables, (like hdmi) even sometimes to buy cables for work, you can get spools of cat5/6s for super cheap.

 

[DoubleAA]

If you're talking about guitar cables, any and all capacitance and resistance in a cable will load your pickups, no two ways about it. Cables matter but only in terms of quality, shitty cables can be more prone to tone sucking effects than good ones, but a lot of different higher end manufacturers (planet waves, dimarzio etc, not ridiculously expensive) may have subtly different effects depending on the impedances in your guitar but if you don't hear it it doesn't matter.

Very true, unless you have active pickups. Then cable capacitance means nothing. As long as it doesn't break, it'll sound like every other cable.

Personally, I just find it easier (and cheaper) to build my own cables, and I'm definitely getting more bang for my buck. Wiring my ridiculous pedalboard cost, at the most, half of what it would have cost in pre-mades or pedalboard kits like george l's and such, and it's all quality stuff.

 

[pushpull7]

Perfect



I remember laughing because there was only one I could tell the difference.

That said, unless you make your own there is nothing wrong with getting a good cable. It doesn't have to be a 100 usd mogami (though I bought one of the cheaper ones) but a nice dimarzio will last and is shielded well. When you think of WHY you should have a decent cable, think of guitar center when you went to try that killer axe dude, and EVERY SINGLE CABLE crackled and cut out on you

 

[7stg]

As smart as this guy is on other issues while right on some points, some points are missed. Monster products are over priced. Some stuff is crazy expensive and not worth it.

Guitar cables carry electricity and have electrical properties that can be measured such as capacitance, conductance, and resistance. Also, there are various ways to shield a guitar cable which effectiveness and durability can be measured. Building your own cable can save money. Typical cost for cable is usually around $1.00/ft sometimes as high as $3/ft. Van-Damme, Gotham, Lava Cable, Canare, Mogami, and Belden all make cable in this range and are good quality.

Seymour Duncan cryogenically freezes some of their pickups and claims to get results.

Nice power cables are worthless to most but those with bad power from the power co/ industrial noise on the incoming power, and who have gone out and bought a balanced power conditioner they are not cheep and are heavy, then a nicer power cable would make sense in this case as long as it is within reason. A good power conditioner will reduce the noise floor which is beneficial when recording.

 

[Jzbass25]

Perfect



I remember laughing because there was only one I could tell the difference.

That said, unless you make your own there is nothing wrong with getting a good cable. It doesn't have to be a 100 usd mogami (though I bought one of the cheaper ones) but a nice dimarzio will last and is shielded well. When you think of WHY you should have a decent cable, think of guitar center when you went to try that killer axe dude, and EVERY SINGLE CABLE crackled and cut out on you

Good vid, also damn there are $100 mogami cables? I made my own mogami cables with neutrik plugs for like $25 bucks. Also sadly my favorite cable in that video was the asterope, but I think it is like a $200 cable... NOPE

As smart as this guy is on other issues while right on some points, some points are missed. Monster products are over priced. Some stuff is crazy expensive and not worth it.

Guitar cables carry electricity and have electrical properties that can be measured such as capacitance, conductance, and resistance. Also, there are various ways to shield a guitar cable which effectiveness and durability can be measured. Building your own cable can save money. Typical cost for cable is usually around $1.00/ft sometimes as high as $3/ft. Van-Damme, Gotham, Lava Cable, Canare, Mogami, and Belden all make cable in this range and are good quality.

Seymour Duncan cryogenically freezes some of their pickups and claims to get results.

Agreed, also I haven't heard of SD's cryo pickups but I think it would lower resistance and make for better conductivity, was that for their crazy Zephyr pickups or whatever they were called?

 

[pushpull7]

@OP's video post:

Though I agree with virtually everything he said, he's not dispelling anything. He's ranting

Why isn't anyone after "Furman" if there is no truth in power conditioners? Just a question.

 

[pushpull7]

@Jzbass: Yep, 100 bucks is what GC wanted for a mogami with the silver neutriks. I feel taken at 38 for the one I have (but I just HAD to try it), turns out, it's a fine cable. I don't know if there is anything that really sounds different, I certainly wouldn't bet on it.

It's funny though. WAY back (I mean the way back machine) I remember getting some monster cables for bass (I'm talking like '95??) and people being impressed with them. Whatever, if it was placebo, it was placebo. They were ripped off along with two modulus basses and an SWR rig way way back.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I will say, I think cabling is the weakest point in many guitarists' rigs, for no other reason than sheer laziness.

Making your own cables is faster and easier than changing guitar strings, and requires less tools than a proper setup of a guitar, but most still rather spend $$$ on cables too long for their need, that hits your wallet and your tone.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

Furman does make the voltage regulators which are great if you have a lot of voltage dragging and spiking in your local power or if you're on the road playing in many different locations.

As for cables, the mogami seem just a hair more transparent and mid-range lively, but in a band setting there's almost no way anyone would hear any difference.
Even running emgs I can feel a slight difference when jamming guitar only.

 

[pushpull7]

Furman does make the voltage regulators which are great if you have a lot of voltage dragging and spiking in your local power or if you're on the road playing in many different locations.

As for cables, the mogami seem just a hair more transparent and mid-range lively, but in a band setting there's almost no way anyone would hear any difference.
Even running emgs I can feel a slight difference when jamming guitar only.

This is why I get bothered when people say there is NO difference. I feel the same way with the transparency. Bass, that is when I feel the need to pull out the mogami. But I'm just a me/myself and I guy here with my computer and some nice amp sims.

I've got a motu zbox for my soundcard setup. It was like 30 bucks......not a big considering how much some of us spend. But I can "feel" the difference. I shit you not. Placebo? Maybe. But it's not like I couldn't return it if it was a joke. I'd rather have the 30 bucks than something I don't like or won't use.

 

[Jzbass25]

@OP's video post:

Though I agree with virtually everything he said, he's not dispelling anything. He's ranting

Why isn't anyone after "Furman" if there is no truth in power conditioners? Just a question.

No truth in power conditioners? Power conditioners have great surge protection (mode 1/series mode protection), unless you're thinking of the voltage regulators which amps have inside them as well but it doesn't hurt lowering the ripple even more. But I'm sure if you have something like a SLO you don't need to worry about it. Also don't they all have some sort of AC bandpass filtering?

Also $38 isn't a bad price for the mogami it should last for a pretty good amount of time. I still have mine, if I can ever get this damn silent plug off then I'll be able to repair mine.

 

[7stg]

Agreed, also I haven't heard of SD's cryo pickups but I think it would lower resistance and make for better conductivity, was that for their crazy Zephyr pickups or whatever they were called?

yep, the Zephyr's are and I have heard a few other custom shop types that are.

Why isn't anyone after "Furman" if there is no truth in power conditioners? Just a question.

The thing with power conditioners is its either a balanced power conditioner like equitech or furman P-2400IT which are expensive or its a glorified surge protector with a few extra electronic add ons that provides some benefit for a high premium. The total benefit all depends on how bad the power is starting off. If your blessed with a clean source, a power conditioner is not going to be a big help.

@Jzbass: Yep, 100 bucks is what GC wanted for a mogami with the silver neutriks.

Mogami - W2319 Redco has it at $0.44/ft add Neutrik's NP2X-B plugs which are gold plated or a switchcraft variety and you could make a better cable than the stuff they sell at GC premade for much less. Mogami guitar cables have a high capacitance which will role off some highs compared to a low capacitance cable. Solder does matter, if you can get some with silver or copper in it that is good quality. Kester 44 - 62/36/2 is great and Radio Shack sales 62/36/2 too. Also, use good electronic flux.

I will say, I think cabling is the weakest point in many guitarists' rigs, for no other reason than sheer laziness.

agreed. or not realizing that there is a benefit to adequately shielded cable, it costs more so they often skip.

 

[pushpull7]

No truth in power conditioners? Power conditioners have great surge protection (mode 1/series mode protection), unless you're thinking of the voltage regulators which amps have inside them as well but it doesn't hurt lowering the ripple even more. But I'm sure if you have something like a SLO you don't need to worry about it. Also don't they all have some sort of AC bandpass filtering?

Also $38 isn't a bad price for the mogami it should last for a pretty good amount of time. I still have mine, if I can ever get this damn silent plug off then I'll be able to repair mine.

But that is what I'm saying, this guy was foaming at the mouth about the guy buying a powerstrip and the warranty. I wouldn't, but I would for my band gear. I played a place in Flagstaff once where they had these lights for out front....when they switched them on it totally drained the power. My point? The Furman was a good thing.

I'm not advocating that the 500 power strip was a fantastic buy, I'm just saying not all power strips (if you consider monster competes with furman in this arena) are the same imho.

 

[7stg]

This is worth a read
CABLE ANATOMY I: UNDERSTANDING THE INSTRUMENT CABLE