The BRJ Black Friday Thread (Only for updates for/by customers.)[Ad Free]

Hollowway · Sep 10, 2015

Rap Hat said:
It's an aside to the main convo and I know I've said this before, probably to you Hollowway, but Tom at OAF is one of the most reliable and kindest luthiers I've ever had the pleasure to work with. He went way above and beyond to make my guitar more than just one of five, to the point where I consider it my "Rap Hat" sig. From letting me pick out the woods and figure out the color in person, to adjusting the frets and lightly sealing the neck after I realized temp and humidity changes seemed to effect it too much, to taking it back AGAIN to route it for a HSH set of Ionizers and have it rewired+reshielded with a six-way switch... The guitar is (I feel) pretty uniquely mine, and one I'm proud to have people see me play. And if someone wanted an OAF 8 Singlecut that's super versatile I'd say, "Hey, grab one with my specs!"

Such a difference from Bernie. Like, sure, Bernie would talk to me on the phone for 2-3 hours at a time (literally), but much of it was him "apologizing" and coming up with tons of excuses while badmouthing other Luthiers.

Amen to all of that. Same experience here!

Hollowway · Sep 10, 2015

Update: So the guy from the music store found an 8 string in the bunch. It's unfinished, but he will finish it and quote a price to the owner, so if someone here has it he will basically give it to you for the price of the work he has left to do on it. It's not mine (specs don't match). But if it's one of yours then we might be able to get you your guitar! Let me know what specs you have and if it matches I'll let you know. Don't PM me, cuz my inbox is gonna hit 100% if a bunch of people read this and have missing 8 strings. But visitor messages or replying on here is fine. I'm not going to tell YOU what the specs are, because I don't want a bunch of guys saying, "Yeah, that's mine!" :lol:

JerichoCheng · Sep 11, 2015

i got a 8s hesperian spot since around 2012 from the original owner called Mahmound Sammak,
since he already paid half for deposit so i have pay the final payment+shipping to Bernie,
after few times of email and he still mentioned was ready for final assembly and setup,
9-Oct-2012 was the last time i got the reply from Bernie,

and here is some pics for the 8s

https://goo.gl/photos/X8hHBJhuZAXNmdVr9

MaxOfMetal · Sep 11, 2015

Hollowway said:
Update: So the guy from the music store found an 8 string in the bunch. It's unfinished, but he will finish it and quote a price to the owner, so if someone here has it he will basically give it to you for the price of the work he has left to do on it. It's not mine (specs don't match). But if it's one of yours then we might be able to get you your guitar! Let me know what specs you have and if it matches I'll let you know. Don't PM me, cuz my inbox is gonna hit 100% if a bunch of people read this and have missing 8 strings. But visitor messages or replying on here is fine. I'm not going to tell YOU what the specs are, because I don't want a bunch of guys saying, "Yeah, that's mine!"

This is getting into some really murky, shady territory.

What if the owner of this, the rightful owner, paid for it in full?

So is this "music store guy" basically holding the guitar hostage until someone pays him to complete it?

Morally, I don't think I'd want to do business with someone looking to take advantage of the situation like this. :2c:

Rap Hat · Sep 11, 2015

Hollowway said:
Update: So the guy from the music store found an 8 string in the bunch. It's unfinished, but he will finish it and quote a price to the owner, so if someone here has it he will basically give it to you for the price of the work he has left to do on it. It's not mine (specs don't match). But if it's one of yours then we might be able to get you your guitar! Let me know what specs you have and if it matches I'll let you know. Don't PM me, cuz my inbox is gonna hit 100% if a bunch of people read this and have missing 8 strings. But visitor messages or replying on here is fine. I'm not going to tell YOU what the specs are, because I don't want a bunch of guys saying, "Yeah, that's mine!"

I kinda agree with Max that its a little sketchy if it's one that's been paid in full (mine for example), but hell, I'll toss my specs up here:
Hesperian 8
Quilt with a super distinctive "moustache" curl right below the neck pickup (have pics if this sounds similar, didn't see another Rico like that)
I got two pics from Bernie that show 24 frets, and one pic that has 25 or 27, don't recall, but IIRC my initial pics were the 24 feet one
Hipshot routing
Oil finish
And god knows what else, I think my pics show writing in the PU cavities, so I can provide that too.

E: Since tons of stuff could've been done to the guitar since I last talked to Bernie in, oh, 2011 or 2012, the pattern of the quilt is the only definitive thing I can think of, so if it's not a quilt, it's probably not mine.

Hollowway · Sep 11, 2015

Well, we don't know exactly what the situation is with the guitar the guy has in the music store. He bought some unfinished guitars, I saw them, and told him what the situation was. Someone needs to finish the guitars, and he would like to be the one to do it. I personally think he's being petty cool that he would just take someone's word that the guitar is there's, and then not charge them anything other than the parts and labor to finish it up. He already paid money for the thing, and is willing to eat it to do the right thing. There's no way to find out if this is a guitar that is owned by anyone on here, or if it was paid in full or what. I'm the one that chose to come on here and try to find the rightful owner so we can get it back. He's being super cool, and didn't say he'd be holding it hostage or anything. He just said, "we'd like to finish it up. If this already belongs to someone I don't want them to get hurt." But if this is shady what should he do? I mean, here we might have a solution that can get someone's guitar back. If you guys think the solution is to just stay silent so the person never sees their guitar, I'll tell him that we'd rather just bitch about Bernie online and not actually try to identify who owns it.

Rap Hat · Sep 11, 2015

My stance is that it's a crappy situation for everyone, as if it's a paid in full guitar the owner isn't going to want to pay more, while the guy who has it doesn't want to finish it for free because that's not his responsibility.

It's going to come down to the individual if it's one of ours. Personally I'd pay some to have it finished, as long as it plays well and doesn't have any Bernie surprises, so to speak. But I wouldn't hold it against anyone if they find that absurd. And hey, they could always sell it to someone else and recoup some of the cost.

E: It didn't come off like the guy is going to hold it hostage, so I apologize if my comment came off that way. But it may come down to the fact that the original owner paid in full to have it completed, and unless the guy is willing to just give it away as is to that person they're going to have to pay even more.

It's like no matter what, anyone who's gotten involved with this gets burned over and over. You can't even buy a used one without the potential for the actual owner to say "Hey, that's my guitar!"

MaxOfMetal · Sep 12, 2015

Hollowway said:
Well, we don't know exactly what the situation is with the guitar the guy has in the music store. He bought some unfinished guitars, I saw them, and told him what the situation was. Someone needs to finish the guitars, and he would like to be the one to do it. I personally think he's being petty cool that he would just take someone's word that the guitar is there's, and then not charge them anything other than the parts and labor to finish it up. He already paid money for the thing, and is willing to eat it to do the right thing. There's no way to find out if this is a guitar that is owned by anyone on here, or if it was paid in full or what. I'm the one that chose to come on here and try to find the rightful owner so we can get it back. He's being super cool, and didn't say he'd be holding it hostage or anything. He just said, "we'd like to finish it up. If this already belongs to someone I don't want them to get hurt." But if this is shady what should he do? I mean, here we might have a solution that can get someone's guitar back. If you guys think the solution is to just stay silent so the person never sees their guitar, I'll tell him that we'd rather just bitch about Bernie online and not actually try to identify who owns it.

Here's the best case scenario: someone sees these posts, comes forward with proof it's their guitar, like a "progress" (notice the quotes :lol:

) photo from Bernie so the wood grain can be matched up, and then they have a PayPal or credit card invoice that shows they paid just a deposit or a partial amount. That guy still actually wants the guitar and is willing to pay to get it completed. The shop does a great job and everyone goes home happy.

But what are the odds of that? The whole theme of this fiasco is "hope for the best, but prepare for the very likely very worst".

Bernie was a shyster. He lied, cheated, and stole. He sent pictures of the same guitar to multiple people, botched specs, and even sent pictures of different guitars to the same person.

Here's how it's probably going to play out:

Scenario A: Someone comes forward with proof of full payment, and that it's their guitar and they want it without paying this guy to finish it. If they call the cops or have a lawyer and the proof, they're getting that guitar back and the shop is screwed.

Scenario B: Multiple people come forward who were shown the same picture of the same guitar and told, fraudulently, by Bernie it was theirs. Who gets the guitar? Who decides?

Scenario C: No one comes forward until the guitar is purchased again and we get the same situation as that Reverb guitar. Everyone loses there.

Hollowway, Andy, I know you're a good guy and you have everyone's best interest at heart. You're one of the best guys on here and I have total faith in you, but I don't think this is a situation you should bear. Your heart is in the right place, but I don't think this is going to bring anything but more heartache.

As for this shop, even if they are doing things in good faith they put themselves in a precarious position, see Scenario A, and they really shouldn't have bought these and should really try and return them if they're not willing to lose their shirt on them. How they didn't know the history on these is rather suspect and I have a feeling they really want to unload these quickly, lest they get caught for dealing in stolen goods, see the Reverb situation a page or so back.

Honestly, there's no positive outcome here, at least not a likely one. Even if someone doesn't come forward to claim these guitars, chances are someone did pay at least a deposit on them and is out their cash and guitar. Personally, I know I wouldn't touch a guitar with that kind of bad karma (Guitarma if you would) with a ten foot pole. All I'd be able to think is that it represents two things: someone who was a crook, and that out there someone is bummed the guitar isn't theirs even though they paid for it.

Worst of all though, I feel it's nothing short of abusive to get folks' hopes up. It's great to think there's going to be a magic moment of discovery where all of the guitars are found and we're able to go through them and everyone lives happily ever after, but after so many let downs and some much time, that's just not going to happen. I want it to more than anyone, and I don't have a horse, or guitar, in this race.

After all that, and me being the glutton for punishment that I am, if there's anything I can do to facilitate a good outcome here, let me know via PM. Like I said, I want the best outcome more than anything.

electriceye · Sep 14, 2015

At this point, this needs to be dropped. No one has filed any legals claims against Bernie. No one has filed charges. Outside of those two things happening, it's time to move on. How many more years do you need before this sets in, guys? Sh*t or get off the pot.

Tesla · Sep 14, 2015

electriceye said:
At this point, this needs to be dropped. No one has filed any legals claims against Bernie. No one has filed charges. Outside of those two things happening, it's time to move on. How many more years do you need before this sets in, guys? Sh*t or get off the pot.

SpaceDock · Sep 15, 2015

electriceye said:
At this point, this needs to be dropped. No one has filed any legals claims against Bernie. No one has filed charges. Outside of those two things happening, it's time to move on. How many more years do you need before this sets in, guys? Sh*t or get off the pot.

The BRJ Black Friday Thread (Only for updates for/by customers.)[Ad Free]

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