The Carvin / Kiesel thread

[spudmunkey]

Per today's live:

Roasted maple necks with their thin neck profile are now available on headless bolt-ons.

Two new colors for the standard offering in 2024:
Primer grey (which they've offered before, but "off menu")
Magma metallic (which they offered in the A2 run last year)

 

[Hollowway]

View attachment 137599

If I were super wealthy I’d buy that ‘Mercia model just because it’s so over the top. Like one of those old Rick Nielsen guitars.

(Actually, on that topic, if I were super wealthy I’d have someone make me an Uncle Dick guitar.)

 

[achrista]

He said he didn't really, the guys just asked what it might take, he said $25K, and then they would pit it up for a week. He said he had offers around $20k, but even at $25k wasn't even sure if he'd feel good about selling it because of the sentimental value, at least in part because it signifies the first guitar build from woods that were completely sourced/milled and completed all in their new (current) factory.

To be clear, someone didn't buy it.

I went and listened and he also says it would "cost them $25k to rebuild it". He also said wenge necks smell bad (I have a nick Johnston schecter -- it doesn't smell at all). at some point it's important to realize that half of what comes out of JK's mouth is just nonsense.

 

[spudmunkey]

I went and listened and he also says it would "cost them $25k to rebuild it". He also said wenge necks smell bad (I have a nick Johnston schecter -- it doesn't smell at all). at some point it's important to realize that half of what comes out of JK's mouth is just nonsense.

"cost them to rebuild" was just odd wording for "this is how much we would charge to rebuild it".

I only have more-than-a-few-minutes-worth of one instrument with a wenge neck: a Warwick Dolphin Pro II bass, a neck-through 5-string with the extra-wide spacing, with a multi-piece neck with wenge, and a wenge fretboard, with an oiled finish over the whole instrument. And that thing did stink quite a bit. When my friend bought it in the mid-to-late 90s, it was already very well-used by that time. You wouldn't notice it while playing, but your hands would smell after playing it. It was regularly wiped down a cleaned. The only other instrument I had some regular contact with had a mostly maple neck with two skinny wenge strings, but encase in a satin finish, which isn't a particularly helpful data point...

They also do have at least some experience with wenge in necks. There've been at least two I remember from back on the Carvin BBS days. At least one of those, I believe they only agreed to it if the neck was finished in something other than just tung oil. I can't find pictures of it anymore, but it was a guitar that also had a "top" on the back. It was neck-through...but once the BBS was taken down, it seems that pic was lost along with it.

They also often have some wenge on-hand for tops, so it's not like they are opposed to using the wood completely and just cuz they don't wanna offer it. They have, as illogical as it may seem from the outside, *some* legitimate (maybe just to them) reasoning behind not offering it as a neck wood.






Edit: Oh, neat! The owner of the wenge-neck guitar I was thinking of, with the "top" on the back, and satin finish, also posted it here.

The Carvin 7XX Club!

BBE option is just natural body binding. Like this: Only applied to straight edges. Yes I know, I just have never seen it on the 7x7 series.

www.sevenstring.org

 

[achrista]

can you find anyone else attesting to Wenge smelling bad? I do not do anything special to clean my Wenge neck and it smells fine before playing, after playing, etc. The only other person I can find even discussing asking about this is someone who clearly heard Jeff spouting this nonsense a few months ago:

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Eh, plenty of hardwoods smell bad when processing, some are even sensitizers, allergens, or even inherently toxic.

So it's probably one of the few objectively not bullshit things Jeff has said, but still seems silly as an excuse not to offer.

 

[DECEMBER]

I had a V3 head for a bit, and based off your opinions on those other amps, I don't think it's going to solve your problems. At least not without some wrangling and outboard gear.

I just got a V3 head for $600. It sounded great at the store I got it from thru a CB 2x12 w/V30s. I'm visiting family right now so all I brought with me is a 10" 20W GA10-SC64.
I've spent the past 2 years fighting with a Marshall DSL20CR, Peavey Invective MH and ValveKing II 20 combo, and Revv G20. With a 10 band parametric EQ in the loop, overdrive pedals, sonic maximizer, and I could never get them to sound right. No matter what I did with EQ, they always had muddy bass and low-mids, quacky high-mids, and all but the G20 had so much fizz.
The V3 thru this 10" speaker with no overdrive and no external EQ sounds so much better than I could ever get any of the 20W amps to sound. I can't wait to get it home and put it thru my 2x12 w/Jensen Tornado Stealth 80s.
The clean tone is amazing, very bright and detailed without being harsh. The DSL20CR clean tone was nice (after lowering the gain with an ECC832), but the ultra gain channel was muddy fizz. The Peavey and Revv cleans are muddy and tubby, even with the treble maxed out.
And the Chug pedal I brought with me sounds great into the V3 clean channel. You can get so many different sounds out of it: with 3 voicings per channel and the EQX switch, there are really 6 different voicings per channel. Individual presence on each channel and bright, deep, and mid cut on the power amp section. The mid cut is exactly what all my other amps were missing.
It's very tight, clear and defined, with minimal fizz. More low-mids that aren't muddy or boxy. Turning up the bass gets a little heavy in the low-mids, but it probably has a lot to do with this 10" speaker and I'm thinking 6L6GC in place of the current EL34 power tubes will get it even closer to what I need.
And I have the 10 band parametric EQ, sonic maximizer, and Precision Drive at home, so I know I'll be able to dial this in to sound way better than any of those 20W amps.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I just got a V3 head for $600. It sounded great at the store I got it from thru a CB 2x12 w/V30s. I'm visiting family right now so all I brought with me is a 10" 20W GA10-SC64.
I've spent the past 2 years fighting with a Marshall DSL20CR, Peavey Invective MH and ValveKing II 20 combo, and Revv G20. With a 10 band parametric EQ in the loop, overdrive pedals, sonic maximizer, and I could never get them to sound right. No matter what I did with EQ, they always had muddy bass and low-mids, quacky high-mids, and all but the G20 had so much fizz.
The V3 thru this 10" speaker with no overdrive and no external EQ sounds so much better than I could ever get any of the 20W amps to sound. I can't wait to get it home and put it thru my 2x12 w/Jensen Tornado Stealth 80s.
The clean tone is amazing, very bright and detailed without being harsh. The DSL20CR clean tone was nice (after lowering the gain with an ECC832), but the ultra gain channel was muddy fizz. The Peavey and Revv cleans are muddy and tubby, even with the treble maxed out.
And the Chug pedal I brought with me sounds great into the V3 clean channel. You can get so many different sounds out of it: with 3 voicings per channel and the EQX switch, there are really 6 different voicings per channel. Individual presence on each channel and bright, deep, and mid cut on the power amp section. The mid cut is exactly what all my other amps were missing.
It's very tight, clear and defined, with minimal fizz. More low-mids that aren't muddy or boxy. Turning up the bass gets a little heavy in the low-mids, but it probably has a lot to do with this 10" speaker and I'm thinking 6L6GC in place of the current EL34 power tubes will get it even closer to what I need.
And I have the 10 band parametric EQ, sonic maximizer, and Precision Drive at home, so I know I'll be able to dial this in to sound way better than any of those 20W amps.

Glad it worked out for you.

The V3 certainly wasn't my least favorite amp, but I definitely wasn't sad to see it go. Which just shows "different strokes" and all that.

 

[achrista]

Eh, plenty of hardwoods smell bad when processing, some are even sensitizers, allergens, or even inherently toxic.

So it's probably one of the few objectively not bullshit things Jeff has said, but still seems silly as an excuse not to offer.

If his argument were that it smells bad when processing and he doesn't want to work with it for that reason then sure, I don't know enough about wood working to disagree so maybe it's not BS. I know there are some woods that have toxic particles when being cut, and that's a completely logical reason not to use them.

But he said the porous nature of the wood collects so much rotting dead skin cells that it stinks after you play it, which from personal experience playing a wenge neck I can tell you is BS. The only people talking about this 'issue" are people wondering if what Jeff is saying is true (it's nonsense).

 

[Moongrum]

If his argument were that it smells bad when processing and he doesn't want to work with it for that reason then sure, I don't know enough about wood working to disagree so maybe it's not BS. I know there are some woods that have toxic particles when being cut, and that's a completely logical reason not to use them.

If you ever care to verify someone's claims about wood, the wood database is awesome: https://www.wood-database.com/wenge/
I use it all the time since it's a bit more objective than musicians just saying "it feels fast' or some bs.

But he said the porous nature of the wood collects so much rotting dead skin cells that it stinks after you play it, which from personal experience playing a wenge neck I can tell you is BS. The only people talking about this 'issue" are people wondering if what Jeff is saying is true (it's nonsense).

This is like a doctor pushing circumcision because he doesn't trust you to wash your own dick lol. Seems like you could just clean it after playing, but I don't have experience with wenge so idk.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

If his argument were that it smells bad when processing and he doesn't want to work with it for that reason then sure, I don't know enough about wood working to disagree so maybe it's not BS. I know there are some woods that have toxic particles when being cut, and that's a completely logical reason not to use them.

But he said the porous nature of the wood collects so much rotting dead skin cells that it stinks after you play it, which from personal experience playing a wenge neck I can tell you is BS. The only people talking about this 'issue" are people wondering if what Jeff is saying is true (it's nonsense).

Yeah, in that context he's full of shit, as usual.

What's so funny is that in most cases there are legitimate reasons to do or not do something but he's a compulsive liar so that's his go-to.

 

[mbardu]

can you find anyone else attesting to Wenge smelling bad? I do not do anything special to clean my Wenge neck and it smells fine before playing, after playing, etc. The only other person I can find even discussing asking about this is someone who clearly heard Jeff spouting this nonsense a few months ago:

My Magistra has an almost full Wenge neck (only a couple of strips of maple), and I specifically wanted the guitar to be as thin an oil finish as possible, and there is literally 0 smell.

 

[spudmunkey]

Well, it's clear my anecdotal experience is in the vast minority, even if it aligned with the claims.

The other point he mentioned was the weight...and my one same data point instrument, that Warwick, I've never side-by-sided with one made from different woods, so I couldn't say how much of it's anchor-like weight was just from the wenge...but it was heaaaavy. Looking at the Wood Database, wenge is about 40% heavier than black walnut, and 48% heavier than honduran mahogany.

Since Kiesel seems to take balance so seriously (to the point of limiting some models to only the smaller headstocks, adding counterweights to others, and redesigning models with longer or more offset horns), it seems like a valid critique, at least on the surface.

 

[Alin Stoenescu]

Hello all, I have the possibility to trade an old ESP Horizon for a Kiesel Aries 8, anyone has experience with the model, some extra info would be appreciated. Can't seem to find a lot of videos with a similar one. This is the guitar, the inlay is actually a sticker

 

[spudmunkey]

Hello all, I have the possibility to trade an old ESP Horizon for a Kiesel Aries 8, anyone has experience with the model, some extra info would be appreciated. Can't seem to find a lot of videos with a similar one. This is the guitar, the inlay is actually a sticker View attachment 137688

Basically every Kiesel is made-to-order from a menu of woods and finishes, so you likely won't find matching examples of most builds.

It's a bit hard to tell from this photo, but it *looks* like it has the Lithium pickups (their different pickup models have different screw types for the pole pieces) which are the standard pickups on most of their models.

I just found this old Facebook post from Kiesel, and it does mention that this one has the Lithiums. There probably aren't many out there with this exact combination of specs.

 

[Alin Stoenescu]

@spudmunkey Thanks to your photo I was able to find the exact guitar in an old reverb selling add https://reverb.com/en-pt/item/15629188-kiesel-aries-a8h-grabber-blue-8-string-guitar
Checked the back of the headstock and the maple grains matches perfectly so for sure it's the same guitar, ended up in Europe

The specs are the following:
Construction: Bolt-on neck with sculpted neck joint
Scale length: 27"
Body: Alder
Finish: Clear satin matte Grabber Blue
Neck: Maple with pointed 4 X 4 headstock and Kiesel logo; dual carbon fiber rods for additional strength and stability
Fingerboard: Maple, 20" radius
Inlays: Black side
Neck width: 2.148" wide @ nut, 3.0" wide @ 24th fret, 0.795" thick at first fret, 0.875" thick at 12th fret
Hardware: Black chrome
Bridge: Hipshot hardtail with strings-through-body
Tuners: Premium Kiesel Guitars locking tuners, 19:1 ratio
Frets: 24 stainless steel medium-jumbo, .103 wide X .048 tall
Pickups: Direct-mount passive Kiesel Lithium K16 humbuckers
Electronics: Master volume and tone controls, 5-way blade-style pickup selector

 

[Wucan]

K, it just arrived at my door. I'll do a separate NGD in the weekend and all that. First impressions:

-Quality and fit are great, frets are very smooth with no sharp edges, oil finish is immaculate, everything working as it should. No apparent factory flaws or sloppiness. Setup well enough to rock out of the box. No complaints there, feels like a 2,000 USD guitar as it should.
-Love the Leia body, very light with Alder as the wood choice and very comfy to play in any position while having a bit of single-cut class.
-Some hits and misses on the finish. Love the roasted maple slab as I prefer it to resemble vintage-tint maple than be as dark as possible. But the main paint job definitely came out too dark, I expected a nice green pop in the center as seen in the builder but it's more like a Schecter burst job if you know what I mean. Bit of a disappointment there because it doesn't jive as well with the maple fretboard and the zebra pickups.
-Won't have much to comment on the tone for a few weeks, the pickups are on the bright side but at first try they don't sound shrill or anything.
-One bother right now is that even the thin neck option doesn't feel... thin. Didn't expect a 90's Ibby toothpick but it feels about the same size as a typical Gibson SG - which isn't exactly thick but back when I was into SGs I did seek out thinner vintage models over modern ones. So we'll see how I adapt.

 

[gunch]

if you tried to torrify wenge would it just cook off like phosphorus

 

[achrista]

Well, it's clear my anecdotal experience is in the vast minority, even if it aligned with the claims.

The other point he mentioned was the weight...and my one same data point instrument, that Warwick, I've never side-by-sided with one made from different woods, so I couldn't say how much of it's anchor-like weight was just from the wenge...but it was heaaaavy. Looking at the Wood Database, wenge is about 40% heavier than black walnut, and 48% heavier than honduran mahogany.

Since Kiesel seems to take balance so seriously (to the point of limiting some models to only the smaller headstocks, adding counterweights to others, and redesigning models with longer or more offset horns), it seems like a valid critique, at least on the surface.

Fom playing, my nick johnston with a wenge neck has 0 neck dive and it's quite balanced. maybe it's a function of the s type body, but the body wood is alder and according to this database that comes in lighter than every non-alder wood kiesel uses. I'm sure schecter has better engineers than kiesel does, but I have to imagine with elbow grease they could keep up.

if he permits using roasted alder and walnut for the same bodies, that's a ~30% difference in bodyweight. You have to know the guy is motivated by moving inventory if he says "don't buy a walnut body" but still offers it on his store.

At the end of the day, the guy is pure marketing and market positioning. There is something to be said for that -- the kiesel connect event was a great thing for them to put on. But the lives are often full of nonsense, and when he says things like "Wenge necks smell bad" it drives me crazy because I know he's lying to his fanboys and ultimately misinforming the public.

 

[sezna]

if you tried to torrify wenge would it just cook off like phosphorus

why is that?