The Les Paul thread

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HeHasTheJazzHands

HeHasTheJazzHands

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rokket2005 said:
On the contrary, I am helping. Camp Dave's Just-in page. They get tons of cool used stuff all the time for better prices than what the same stuff goes for on Reverb and they have better service than GC.
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Oh I know about DGS. I check there every day (except Sunday :lol:).
I'm still between the Revstar, Epi, and a Michael Kelly 1962. The Epi might win out since I've been wanting a god-honest Les Paul.
 

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dspellman

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Estilo said:
I also don't like veneers when it's to emulate actual flames.
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Veneers don't "emulate" actual flames. They're actual slices of flame maple, and they display all the chatoyance of any flamed maple, with all the depth and shifting you ordinarily see.

Veneers, especially when applied to full thickness maple caps, actually do a better job with flame/quilt maple than most book matched chunks of solid maple. I have bunch of book matched tops, and you'll notice that a lot of them lose that "match" quickly, particularly when you get out to the edges of the carved top. Those edges, being further from each other and the original slice point, can often meander into something other than a match. A 1/16th" maple veneer doesn't do that. It's actually got better matching out to the sides than a solid chunk of carved, book matched maple.

When I first started squinting at some of the veneered tops that World Music was putting on Agiles, I was a bit taken back when I found that they were actually prettier than the Gibsons I had. What the hell? And then my favorite cabinet maker explained it to me. If you hit a museum that has a good collection of 17th, 18th and even 19th century furniture, you'll find veneers used extensively in marquetry on the highest-end furniture. In short, the use of a veneer isn't necessarily to "cheap out" on either furniture OR a guitar, and you shouldn't sniff at it.
 
STRHelvete

STRHelvete

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dspellman said:
Veneers don't "emulate" actual flames. They're actual slices of flame maple, and they display all the chatoyance of any flamed maple, with all the depth and shifting you ordinarily see.

Veneers, especially when applied to full thickness maple caps, actually do a better job with flame/quilt maple than most book matched chunks of solid maple. I have bunch of book matched tops, and you'll notice that a lot of them lose that "match" quickly, particularly when you get out to the edges of the carved top. Those edges, being further from each other and the original slice point, can often meander into something other than a match. A 1/16th" maple veneer doesn't do that. It's actually got better matching out to the sides than a solid chunk of carved, book matched maple.

When I first started squinting at some of the veneered tops that World Music was putting on Agiles, I was a bit taken back when I found that they were actually prettier than the Gibsons I had. What the hell? And then my favorite cabinet maker explained it to me. If you hit a museum that has a good collection of 17th, 18th and even 19th century furniture, you'll find veneers used extensively in marquetry on the highest-end furniture. In short, the use of a veneer isn't necessarily to "cheap out" on either furniture OR a guitar, and you shouldn't sniff at it.
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Chatoyance, I know dat bish...she owe me 5 dollars.
 
Estilo

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dspellman said:
And then my favorite cabinet maker explained it to me. If you hit a museum that has a good collection of 17th, 18th and even 19th century furniture, you'll find veneers used extensively in marquetry on the highest-end furniture. In short, the use of a veneer isn't necessarily to "cheap out" on either furniture OR a guitar, and you shouldn't sniff at it.
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Thanks, this bit is new to me. That said, I stand by my point that it is meant to EMULATE solid flame tops, even if they started life as actual flamed maple blocks. Manufacturers being opaque or less-than-upfront about their use of veneers is a tell of this.

Your gripe is with the flames not book matching the further they are from the centre. For me I'm less bothered by how incongruent they are, I'd rather have plain maple top than perfectly bookmatched veneers. I guess what I will revise is that I dislike flamed maple. Give me plain tops or solid colours any day.

I'm much less bothered by flames on furniture, veneers or otherwise. As long as they don't bother me in terms of longevity and don't emit toxic fumes I'm perfectly fine with plywood/MDF cabinetry. Guitars on the other hand...
 
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dspellman

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Estilo said:
Thanks, this bit is new to me. That said, I stand by my point that it is meant to EMULATE solid flame tops, even if they started life as actual flamed maple blocks. Manufacturers being opaque or less-than-upfront about their use of veneers is a tell of this.

Your gripe is with the flames not book matching the further they are from the centre. For me I'm less bothered by how incongruent they are, I'd rather have plain maple top than perfectly bookmatched veneers. I guess what I will revise is that I dislike flamed maple. Give me plain tops or solid colours any day.

I'm much less bothered by flames on furniture, veneers or otherwise. As long as they don't bother me in terms of longevity and don't emit toxic fumes I'm perfectly fine with plywood/MDF cabinetry. Guitars on the other hand...
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Not liking flames or quilt (or spalt or burl or other figured) wood is a whole separate thing.

Veneer isn't meant to "emulate" solid flame tops. They're just a bit thinner than some solid flame tops. I have "plank" guitars (flat, not carved) that have a flame cap over koa or mahogany or whatever for a body/neck. Those guitars' caps are often 1/4" or less. They're still a real flame top. A veneer is usually around 1/16th" thickness or so. Most of my recent experience with manufacturers has been that they're willing to disclose veneers, including when it's a maple veneer over a solid maple cap.

When I first discovered Agile, I noticed that a lot of their Les Paul-ish guitars with figured tops were veneered. At first I figured it was a way to "cheap out" on the guitar, but the rest of the guitar is so well done, I let it pass. When I ordered a "custom" guitar from them, I got a call from Kurt (owner) who asked me if I wanted a solid *figured* maple cap on the guitar. No veneer. I shrugged (the price was nice) and said, "Sure, why not?" and requested a tight flame. And he delivered. I think the extra cost on the solid figured maple cap was something like $100.

At the same time I was in the process of ordering an Axcess Custom from Gibson. In this case, "Custom"referred to the black guitar with white binding, etc. But I thought I'd check on the cost of the same tight flame maple cap with a CSB finish on the Gibson. They wanted an additional $1760. *Additional.*And they wanted an additional 5-7 months to deliver.

One more thing. "Veneered" furniture doesn't suggest plywood/MDF underneath. I think you're thinking of *really* cheap furniture. Figured wood is often less stable than the same wood with better grain. Spalted maple, for example, has a certain amount of "rot" involved, and wouldn't be a great choice for the structure, whereas straight grain maple would. Thus, a veneered piece has the look of the figured wood but the solid structure of better wood.
 
budda

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Tried some new pickups in the R9

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pickup thread
 
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