The Time Has Come (I Want to Build a Bass!)

[Konfyouzd]

I've been looking around forever and I just can't seem to find the bass I want.

Seven strings and fretless. Seems simple right? But, I also realize the number of people in the world playing such a thing are more than likely quite few and far between.

I have also gotten a LOT of suggestions to just get a 7 stringer like the BTB7 and defret it. I could. But I would feel weird if I ended up ruining that nice bass doing such a thing. It's like tearing apart someone else's artwork such that no one can enjoy it and the idea of doing something like that makes me a sad sad panda.

I AM however, okay with starting an art project and failing so long as I see it through to completion (failure). That said, I'd like to try building a bass and I'd like to try something at least semi ambitious on my first one even though I'm sure I'll have to try it again.

I would *like* to build a neck thru 7 string fretless bass.

The neck would be some combination of maple and wenge and I may add another in like purpleheart or something similar if I opt for a 7pc over a 5pc neck.

Wings would be ash as I just see that commonly used as a relatively light body weight.

Now here's where it gets tricky... I would like to make this a headless design as well, but I'm okay with saving that for a later build.

IF I go with a headed design, I'd probably do individual bridge saddles like on the BTB. I was honestly planning on copying a lot of specs from the BTB as far as nut width and string spacing go although I may make my string spacing just a hair more narrow.

The last thing I'm not entirely sure about is I have been reading the "What do I need to start building threads" and I've seen that between myself and a friend that's interested in getting started on this with me, we have a lot of the tools necessary.

What we REALLY need now is clamps (shit tons), a band saw, a router and a drill press.

I was under the impression that drill presses and band saws were a lot more expensive than they actually are. What size should I get though? I've been looking at them and the price seems to depend largely on that factor.

Also, does it really matter which router I choose? They all seem relatlively similar.

Thanks guys!

I know some of these questions have been at least somewhat answered in some form or another, I just needed some clarification on whether or not I'm n the right track. I'm working on the body and headstock shapes still. I'll post pics of what I come up with once I do if anyone is interested.

 

[djohns74]

Just a few random thoughts here. You mentioned "ash" as being lightweight, which is not strictly accurate, northern ash is actually rather dense and would make for a rather heavy body. You may have just meant swamp ash though which is definitely on the lighter side, but be sure to note the difference when shopping. It's the same species, it just grows in conditions that make it far more porous. Actually, if weight is the only concern, authentic Honduran Mahogany is generally on the lighter side too and has the additional benefit of being very easy to work and finish.

I have the cheapest Ryobi drill press (10" I think?) and band saw (9") sold at the Home Depot and they've both served me quite well so far. Both have occasional limitations, but then again, they aren't the only tools that can do what they do, so I just use hand tools for the rare times that they aren't big enough. Frankly, for me, one of the concerns with the band saw was that anything bigger will be a full cabinet model for which I absolutely do not have the room.

For me, the stock band saw blade was junk, as has been any blade that's designed for maneuverability. So, since I don't really do any fine, tight radius curves on it, I went with a wider metal-cutting blade (Amazon.com: Vermont American 31152 3/8-Inch by 18TPI by 59-1/2-Inch Metal Band Saw Blade: Home Improvement) and have had zero issues cutting anything with it. It's reasonably fast (less apt to burn the wood), accurate (doesn't wander like tiny blades) and also cuts pretty clean, so it's a great compromise blade.

I went with a router kit that comes with both plunge and fixed bases and accepts either 1/2" or 1/4" shank bits (though both of these features may be extremely common). Both of those design elements have been crucial for me and the way I build. A lot of people use a router table, but I don't see a lot of benefit there, especially for a beginner. Of course, for any fine detail work, this router is far too unwieldy so I also way overpaid for a variety of Dremel attachments from Stew Mac. Actually, I've paid Stew Mac's ridiculous prices for a lot of their tools since, while expensive, they've been almost universally great.

Okay, that's about all I've got. The grain of salt here is of course that everything I say on this subject leans very far to the side of "it works for me" rather than "it's the way to do it", so there's that.

 

[Necromagnon]

Drill press is a plus, but far from mandatory. It's even more the case with bandsaw. I've build 3 and half guitar without a bandsaw, that's no problem. If money is a concern, you'd better save some and buy a decent router with several quality bits (it's better to spend more on bits than on the router!). What is important on router:

• precision of every guiding element
• stability of blocking system (sometimes, it lacks some stiffness and thus, the router comes back up by itself)

For drill press, you'll want to make sure that it is large enough to go drill some holes in the center of the body (for the bridge for example, or pups screws). Otherwise, you'll just waste money.


About body wood, as said by John, ash is pretty heavy. I've 2 builds running with a (only!) 32mm thick body that weight much more than a PRS (pretty thin but around 40) with a mahogany body and a 20 mm maple top... So beware of that!


About headed vs headless version, that's all about what you want and how much you're willing to put on the hardware. I've the impression that headless hardware is a bit more expensive than "standard" (counting bridge + tuners). Other than that, I don't see much differences in terms of difficulties.


Nice build btw. Do you have some drawings of what it (should) look like?

 

[foreright]

I've just gone through the same dilemma with pillar drills - to be "useful" (IMO) you need to be able to reach the centre of any guitar bodies you want to build. For me, that put the minimum "throat depth" (ie. distance from post to the centre of the chuck) at 150mm and ideally 170mm+. The problem is that the vast majority of the cheaper options are significantly smaller than this.

I ended up going with this: Axminster Hobby Series AH1603DP Bench Drill Press - Pillar Drills - Drills & Morticers - Wood Working | Axminster.co.uk as a decent compromise. It's been doing a great job so far

I've managed to do without a band saw so far due to space (and wife...) limitations but that is next on my shopping list.

As above, a good router is a godsend - I went with the Bosch GOF 1600CE. That comes with both fixed and plunge router bases and will take both 1/2" and 1/4" bits and is plenty powerful enough for my needs. As an aside, my first had a faulty motor which went after about a month and Bosch customer service was fantastic - they had a complete replacement out to me within a day of me reporting the fault. Been going strong for well over a year since then

ETA: Oh yes, as above, "Ash" depending on what you mean can be pretty heavy. Most of my builds so far have been with European Ash bodies and the stuff is pretty dense - pretty much on a par (maybe slightly less on average) with Rock Maple. It does look very pretty though IMO and is quite nice to work.

 

[Navid]

Dude!
It'll be fun to build an instrument, but beware: it also is highly addictive!
Listen to me though. Don't invest in all those machines you need up front, if you plan to build more than 1 instrument, buy a good machine at a time and make a professional do what you can not do without the needed power tools.

For example: don't invest in bandsaw, table saw, thicknesser/jointer, drill press and all of that. First buy a high quality, realiable router and router bits and have the wood cut and drilled by a pro.
You'll spend around 50 euro which is much less than buying all the stuff above, but you will have a router that will last forever and you won't be scared to use.
Look for a reputable brand plunge router (Hitachi, Makita, Bosch...) and try to get one that accepts up to 12.7mm shank bits.

Drill presses for example are very expensive, most of the cheap ones (below 400 euro) have a short reach and are inadequate to drill string through holes. You can imagine that if you were to buy all of this stuff, you'd be better off with having a luthier build your instrument instead.

Do not buy cheap power tools, they can potentially harm you and make the process of building a pain.

Ash is sexy.

 

[Konfyouzd]

I have some notebook paper drawings... Give me a second and I'll try to upload them.

And yea I meant Swamp Ash. I keep forgetting about the other one.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Two different drawings... The shape is SUPPOSED to be the same, but it didn't quite work out that way... I doodled these at work.

They have a strange OXC/Ritter/pseduo-Varberg vibe to them.

The first one I like a bit better in terms of how close it is to the shape I have in mind, but I think I like the idea of the monkey grip more than the f-hole thing.

The only thing I really feel like I took from Ritter is the neck. It extends super far and acts as a finger ramp as well. Seems like it would give it a kind of upright type feel. I didn't really care one way or the other about ramps until I got my GWB and I actually really like them now. That and I think the neck extending that far into the body is just an aesthetically cool thing as well so we get function AND form... Two birds...

 

[foreright]

That's going to be an expensive old bit of Rosewood/Ebony if it extends to the bridge Looks cool though - always loved Ritters.

 

[Necromagnon]

I see you have great tastes. That Roya is on my top 3 basses ever. Just to show, a buddy building basses, that started on his balcony, with just a router and a hand driller:
CG lutherie

He builds many stuff, and some are in a similar idea as yours, it might inspire you.

PS: I also totally agree on what was said above. Better not spent to much money on machinery unless you directly want to start your own workshop. :mrgreen:
PPS: Axminster's machinery is very great, but shipping from UK to Mars might be a bit expensive though.

 

[sehnomatic]

To sum it up:

Jigsaw. Drill. Router.

If you buy a small drill press, you may find that you can't reach your string thru holes.

An attachment like this is far more useful than a medium size drill press.

Please. Do not buy a cheap router. Learning on fragile, innacurate tools can develop bad habits and is unsafe depending on the tool, buy nice or buy twice doesn't apply when you lack the fingers to operate it the second time.

I think the fellows above have covered the tool part of building.

Conventional fretboard woods, even ebony, will not survive fretless play. We have two options: composite material (richlite/ebonol) and epoxy on the fretboard. See here

That's all that I can confidently say. Not too familiar with bass building.

 

[Konfyouzd]

I drew up one more design. I think I like this a little more than the other two. People are looking at me weird in my office because I'm constantly tearing sheets out of my notebook and throwing them away...

I imagine rosewood or ebony *might* be difficult to find in lengths long enough to do this fingeboard... I haven't fully decided on specs yet, though. I could have the board just stop at the bridge pup (like the GWB) and then buy those individual bridge saddles I was talking about. I figure I'm not really saving money either way because it's either I make the bridge out of the fretboard + leftover wood and end up buying a more expensive piece of wood to have it reach that far OR I buy a bridge from some manufacturer and 7 string parts don't seem to come cheap most places I look.

Any thoughts on that?

Also, does any one have any experience with carbon fiber wrapping? I imagine that's something I should probably save for a later build.

 

[Necromagnon]

I prefer much much more this version, maybe 'cause it's closer to Ritter's work.
About the fretboard, the only answer is to have a look on what supplier can provide. Designholz in germany have very regularly very long pieces of ebony, for a fairly reasonable price. You can look to it, it's generally no perfect pieces (tears off, worm holes and so on) but enough to make out at least one very very big fretboard (I've looked at some nice pieces where I could get at least 4 basses fb).

 

[Konfyouzd]

Well that's actually rather encouraging. I'll definitely look into that. We have a lumber yard fairly close to here. I have a friend looking to start building with me and he's planning out a 7 string guitar so I imagine we'll probably be taking a trip to the local lumber yard rather soon to see what we can get locally and what we'll have to search for.

To be honest, part of me was thinking about getting planed down boards from home depot to try this out on the first go round since it's my first bass but I also feel like if I do pull off something halfway decent I'll want it too look nice.

Assuming I get wood and don't immediately go to work on it, how should I store it? I'd hate to come back to it and find my body/neck/fingerboard blanks all warped from neglect.

Also, I finally clicked that CG Lutherie link.

The first pic is pretty close to what I'm going for aside from the board stopping early.

Quick question... These look to be done as set necks with extra long tenons, is that it? And if that's the case, to pull off what I want to do on the basss I'm building would it be easier to make the neck/board all one piece and then shape the area toward the bridge to my liking after seeing how it fits?

Since it will act as both the board and a finger ramp it will obviously need to be elevated a certain amount above the surface of the body.

Any pros and cons to that approach? Mounting a truss rod I imagine might be trickier.

 

[Purelojik]

I'll tell you how i started.

Jigsaw, Router, Freud bits (flush bits), drill with high quality brad, regular and forstener bits.

Rule is, buy nice or buy twice. And honestly i found this out the hard way. I wish i'd heard someone say that before cause it really really means the difference between haphazardly doing something, and doing a task with confidence.

make friends with cabinet makers and stuff, they'll plane shit down for you through their huge drum sanders when they can.

making a body:

The way i do things is i first make a Plywood template, sand it well because ever defect on the perimeter will be transferred to the wood and that just means extra work for you. So spend the time making it right.

next transfer that to the wood, trace around it and then jigsaw with a margin outside that line. attach the template using Stew Macs pressure sensitive double stick tape and then use a flush trim bit and route away the excess in a few passes. BAM you have your body. (pretty much all this is in pictures on my blog in my sig too)


making a neck will take some more work, message me when you're at that stage and i'll try to walk you through it. i posed a quick and dirrty tutorial on a thread in here a while back

 

[Navid]

I'd suggest MDF over plywood.
Plywood tends to be a bitch, it chips like crazy.
I can't deal with plywood at all, it makes me mad. I honestly wish I was as good as Purelojik with it. BTW Follow his blog, he has many interesting tips.

 

[foreright]

Goodness, yes - mdf is far easier to work with. A good tip is to use CA on the edge to give a good surface for the bearing

 

[Konfyouzd]

CA? What's that?

 

[sehnomatic]

CA? What's that?

"CA" would refer to Cyanoacrylate. Essentially super glue. MDF and plywood tend to be brittle, and are prone to compressing. Water thin CA glue hardens the MDF edges so it doesn't compress, compression can throw off the accuracy of a template.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Awesome! Thanks man!

 

[DistinguishedPapyrus]

First and foremost, research very well what you're gonna do before you do it. I spent several weeks googling and reading about different aspects of wood, carpentry techniques, lutherie techniques, different types of tools and jigs, all the measurements and alignments of the different components of a guitar, why guitars are shaped the way they are in different areas... etc. all before ever laying a tool to a piece of wood, and now I still read about about lutherie 4 years later. Compare your ideas to existing guitars and see if what you want is achievable, comfortable to hold and play in different positions, well balanced and stable enough to last for years to come. If not, modify your designs. I usually start with the neck in my builds, cause that's the most important part of a build. If you cant play the thing due to a junk neck then the guitar is basically scrap.

Heres my basic rules to follow in building a neck:
-Use multiple pieces, preferably cut from the same timber glued up in a multi lam neck, harder wood is better but not so hard that it ruins your tools. Add in some nice contrasting stripes for rigidity and good looks.
-Align all the pieces in a quarter sawn grain pattern when possible.
-Sand the pieces against a hard flat surface before gluing. The goal here is you wanna be able to hold the pieces together and have a gap so tight you cant see any light through it. (I use a piece of marble window sill material from home depot long enough to sand a neck through blank. Sand paper strips are glued to the surface of the marble with mild spray adhesive. This sands the pieces super flat before gluing.)
-Spread the glue evenly and clamp it up for at least an hour using Titebond original.
-Use the same technique for sanding the fretboard face of the neck blank before attaching the fretboard.

Dont let failure get you down either... I spent 3 years developing techniques while practicing on roughly 5-6 different builds before I had my first playable guitar built. I ruined several nice pieces of wood in the process too. Now another year later and I've halfway finished another build, and barely started a third. It can be a slow start in the beginning...


Heres some sites that might help:

This one is loaded with data about different species of wood:
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-identification/

A good set of tutorials covering most of a complete guitar build:
http://www.projectguitar.com/articles.html/_/tutorials

Another interesting complete guitar build (I love this guys build cause it was done so humbly yet still looks great):
http://behindthetone.com/johnfisher/lpc/cvr/cover.htm