This is what is wrong with "progressive" music

[Draceius]

How hard is it to just say, "I don't like their music."?

According to the people in this thread, very hard, I agree with some of the posts a page or two back, this wasn't worth creating a thread about, especially with the title it came with. Some of the points are very valid though, I won't deny that, but some are just petty and just speak more about them than the music they're ridiculing.

 

[mike0]

Nobody associated with the band has said that the band is a Progressive metal band. They're Technical Instrumental Metal if anything, there's nothing progressive about them.

"The Fine Constant is an experimental progressive metal band from Madison, WI."

taken from the 'About' section on their facebook page... just sayin'

personally it didn't do anything for me. great playing and whatnot, but like many others, it didn't come across any other way than "random noodling". it sounded devoid of feeling, and seemed like a two minute mish-mash of sweeps and riffs that just screams:

not saying any of this is right, as it's just my opinion on the matter, and people sure as hell are allowed to like it. there are those who get off on this type of stuff, and that's perfectly okay. as for it being progressive... well, that's such a loose term these days and pretty much anything can be considered progressive. there's no use arguing that it isn't because it could mean something different to someone else.

 

[The ProfEscher]

People that follow Sarah Longfield seem to be almost exclusively in one of two camps - white knights or guys that feel the need to say something like "if she wasn't a woman she wouldn't have 10% of the listeners she has." Most of those comments are pretty typical defense mechanism reactions from men who feel threatened by a woman in the boys' tree fort that is guitar playing. Sarah is a killer player and if you don't like her music then just go listen to something you do like.

Dude, almost nobody in this thread has said that. Most reactions have had nothing to do with her gender and been more about how her technical ability is impressive but the song itself is not. Which is valid.


Also, how have we gotten this far without anyone talking about the band name itself? What is The Fine Constant supposed to mean?

 

[celticelk]

^^^ Shorthand for the fine-structure constant, perhaps? Fine-structure constant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And really, questioning metal band names is a hole that has no bottom. The only winning move is not to play.

 

[Sunyata]

How hard is it to just say, "I don't like their music."?

All I'm saying is that everyone is allowed discuss things, even if they dislike them. I'm only even bringing this up because of the amount of people that seem to think it's wrong to voice negative opinions on things. You might think he is being an asshole by stating his contempt for this band in the way he did, but that is irrelevant.

 

[oompa]

I have bantered about the same thing for a while now

And let me get something off my chest (let me do it for my own sake, you don't even have to like it or read it ) (I love you guys...)! Ok:

First of all you play progressive -something- (and yes all you genre-haters who think that music is an undefined ooze of art that can not be labeled - yes, it can be labeled and everyone does it, it is nothing bad, it is as with any generalization - it just helps people explain it in fewer words so move on): So yes, you play progressive something, progressive rock, progressive metal, progressive jazz, because there is a reason you call it progressive: You are trying to take it forward! But we'll get back to make this point moot later on. Either way: you are trying to do something new within that genre, push the limits, take it into new grounds. Advance it. That is not equal to playing complicated rock, or complicated metal. They're called technical rock, or technical metal or similar.

Second: Fusion. Mixing Rock and Jazz does not make you play progressive rock, neither does mixing in classical music in your metal make you play progressive metal - it makes you play Rock/Jazz-fusion or Metal/Classic-fusion. It is not taking rock, metal or anything else, forward.. you are just mixing two known elements = fusion. It is in the word.

Now so you think your rock is crazy and progressive because you mix in hand-carbed tubular bells made from a dead type of wood while your buddy grunts words on a dead language backwards to the beat of your dog walking on plates you put on glass floor.. No, that'd be experimental music. Experimental rock, experimental metal, experimental anything but you are experimenting with it. It is, again, not progressive, because you are the only ones doing it... for now.

So what's the dealio with all these terms? Here is the dealio:

Progressive: If you play a genre and experiment with it, then it turns out people enjoy it, bands follow and you (together with similar artists) help define the new version of that genre then CONGRATULATIONS: YOU PLAY PROGRESSIVE -insert genre-. That is how it works. It is eperimental -genre- that caught on and changed the genre almost permanently, it turned the other bands in the same genre into "old school" or "classic" something because it is about how this stuff sounds now then congratulations - there you have it. It is a term that can most of the time not even be properly used WHILE THE BAND IS AT IT, or at least not in the beginning, it takes a while for the whole scene and fans to sort of accept it as the new direction and a permanent change for it to be considered progressive.

Experimental: The reason bands like Yes and Rush are called progressive is because they tried, at the time, to take rock, which sounded like Creedence Clearwater revival or Elvis previous to them, into new grounds, -and they succeeded- while a bunch of other bands didn't. Now Rush is called progressive and the other ones experimental, while the other rock bands that did not change are called Classic or Old school rock. All the bands today that make new stuff are for now just playing experimental stuff. If one of them hits it big, a billion bands follow, it becomes the new definition of modern -genre- then congrats, you are progressing it, but until then keep experimenting with it. Pushing it to extremes within a genre might dub it Avant-garde -genre- but in a sense it is still experimental.

Technical: Ok so your music is a complete wankery of tones, rhythms and so on - sorry to say bro but you are not progressing anything, that stuff has been around since forever. You'll find 60yo jazz guitarists who do it twice as fast as you they just don't record it and put it out in public. And they actually understand the theory behind it too. Your music is based on technicality which makes it technical -genre-. Mix in complicated or weird odd stuff like strange instruments, theory, song structure etc. then you are playing experimental technical stuff etc. But until the world actually follows suit you are not playing progressive anything.

Fusion: Mixing of two or more known genres is just fusion. It is in the definition. No matter how crazy your country/rap/death metal is, it is not progressive, possibly not technical, possibly not experimental either, just country/rap/death-fusion. Simple as. Rap artists mixing in metal guitars, metal bands mixing in rap, it is not progressive in any way, yet it caught flavor A LOT for a while in the late 90's with bands like Korn and Limp Bizkit and no matter how much you dislike it, if it turned out it wasn't a fad, then congrats, Limp Bizkit would've been progressive rap/metal. But that's not the case, it was just fusion.

So if you accept the generalization of genres, then that's how it is.

Rush and Yes and the likes play progressive rock because what they did everyone copied and they still do. Dream Theater play/ed progressive metal for the exact same reason.

Now if you wank or complicate things, it is technical but unless you actually make a huge impact that is permanent on the genre, you are playing a technical version of it. There is the term maths-metal for example, which is not progressive in any way, it does not contribute in any way -any more-, however the first couple of bands to base their music on it, like Meshuggah, were in fact progressive as it turns out nowadays, since there are a million bands who sound like them now, 20 years later, and it just seem to keep going, it was a stayer. So while Meshuggah and their likes at the beginning progressed it one step, the millions of bands that came after them haven't exactly done it. Candidates? Bands like AAL possibly, because they caught similar appresh and we see a million bands like them now, maybe some time from now they can be considered to have progressed the genre a fair amount.

Finally, don't think I am hating on anything mentioned above - I am a complete sucker for all this stuff, half of my music collection is progressive, technical and experimental stuff. I grew up on Rush, had a love affair with DT and moved on to crazy experimental stuff. I just needed to get of my chest how the genres have developed and are developing and all the things that, -in my opinion- are misunderstood about it.

TL: DR; the guy in the vid plays technical something, not progressive anything progressive is rare and mostly acknowledged after a while, technical is complicated instrument-handling/theory, fusion is mixing known elements and experimental is something that might turn out to be progressive later on but unless/until it is widely recognized as the new stuff and cemented as such is just experimental.

 

[liamh]

This thread portrays progressive metal in a bad light.
Despair not, there are still plenty of bands who are progressive in the truest sense of the word, genuinely pushing the envelope..

 

[Mendez]

Oh. She IS hot!

 

[Esp Griffyn]

Why is anyone acting like this has anything to do with progressive music? Just because it's technical and there's tapping doesn't automatically make it progressive. What band ISN'T doing that these days?

Progressive music isn't suffering from too many stale bands, it's suffering from too many bands incorrectly classifying themselves as progressive because they threw a clean part in between all their sweeps and shit.

This is a great point - when you stick to a well-worn formula, make no effort to be original or unique and basically cop a template (everything from the music, the look, the gear, the name of the band etc fits it), you aren't be "progressive" at all.

It's as if all the, for want of a better term, "djent" bands became embarrassed at having such a stupid genre name for their djeneric sound and decided to call themselves "progressive" bands instead, while not actually taking onboard any of the hallmark's of progressive music.

 

[nostealbucket]

I hear you. To me progressive music has turned into basically overplaying...it used to mean thinking outside the square, now it means putting as much into the square as possible and it shits me to tears

This is probably the most beautiful post I've seen on this forum.

 

[JustMac]

Rockin' that Fallujah is getting love on this forum; blown away by the passion and power that comes across in their stuff too. I'd also nominate BtBaM for a "doing technicality right" award. I genuinely thought this was a parody or something

 

[Jonathan20022]

Does anyone find it disconcerting that hardly anyone, or at least I didn't notice anyone even talk about the other musicians or band as a whole?

The thread doesn't even start with or imply anything about Sarah Longfield, and most of the discussion breaks down and ends up revolving around her. I would hate to be in a band like that simply because you'll likely be put on the back burner while everyone praises the obvious person of interest. There's other musicians there doing quite a bit of work themselves and they fail to get recognized or even mentioned.

On the music itself, I don't mind it but I'm past listening to this stuff on a daily basis. It's the same reason I can't get into techy bands I feel like I should be familiar with like Necrophagist. I already have bands that filled that spot for me when I listened to tech-shred music like this. I can appreciate the atmosphere the music gets at 1:42 but that's all that even remotely sticks out. It's pretty forgettable otherwise.

 

[Zalbu]

The thread doesn't even start with or imply anything about Sarah Longfield,

It might just be me but it makes me want to scream at the top of my lungs right by her face "PLEEEEASE JUST SHUT THE FAAAAAAAAKAAAAAAAAAP!!!"

I don't know about you, but I don't see any other women in the video so I'm pretty sure that the 'her' refers to Sarah.

 

[Jonathan20022]

Didn't notice that! But even so, their drummer is pretty awesome and so are the other guys. It still doesn't change the fact that there's no discussion about the band as a whole, but I stand corrected on that point!

 

[RevChristoph]

So I have never heard of this girl or group, but here is my two cents:

1 - It's ok. Not something I would normally listen to, as I am just sick of listening to wankerism. So much so that I'm even getting sick of dreamtheater. But thats just me.

2 - I would NEVER watch this band play a live show. I would fall asleep in a minute. Same thing over and over, and yes they may be good musicians, they are not performers. If I want to watch someone play and not move around or engage the audience of anything, then I will get an instructional video or go to a clinic.

No offense to the people involved in the group or anything, just my thoughts.

 

[DarkWolfXV]

Random song structure with random sweeps and random djent open notes does not make something progressive. Please, I'd prefer if they were ripping off Dream Theather than doing what they're doing now.

 

[sol niger 333]

I don't know about you, but I don't see any other women in the video so I'm pretty sure that the 'her' refers to Sarah.

She is the one playing the majority of the incredibly annoying shit in this "song". She could be a guy or a hermaphrodite...It would still be ear rape

 

[pestilentdecay]

Dat minor second at :45

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

sweet! Solo'ing!!! /yawn

 

[piggins411]

I see AAL name popping up a bunch in this thread, and I want to ask everyone something. Many people are calling this song a bunch of random noodling, which is fine, but no one has mentioned (and this is coming from someone who enjoys AAL) that sometimes, AAL's music definitely enters this territory sometimes. For example, it's been awhile since I've listened to Inamorata, but to me it seemed like this song but 3x longer with maybe a little more cohesiveness. Am I the only one who feels this way?