Kosthrash
SS.org Regular
A friend of mine has it, I've tried it through monitors, sounds stellar! ( Not that punch though as through a guitar cab, but still super tight)
For $230 brand new you can 't go wrong...
To those that have moved on from a Tube amp to a SS/modeling rig.
- Thread starter NCASO96
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
For $230 brand new you can 't go wrong...
This site may earn a commission from merchant links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
drgamble
Well-Known Member
I've been learning guitar for almost 40 years, yes I'm old, get over it. I remember the days in the 80's and 90's and just making whatever I had at the moment work. I think this is how the classic rock musician found their "sound". They really maximized whatever they had on hand to make sounds. Anyway, the point is that we get really accustomed to the sound of whatever amp we play the most through. My first real amp was a Marshall JCM 900. It only had one channel, and the distortion didn't sound like Metallica (which is what I was going for). Anyway, that is the amp I had, and I constantly tried to reach that sound. Drive pedals, EQ pedals, etc. What happened is that in my attempted approximation of that sound, I ended up with something that was kind of me. I used that amp for everything, and in the 90's I played in a death metal band with a TS9 Soundtank for a boost. The amp had two gain knobs. A traditional gain knob for preamp distortion (800), and a diode clipping gain knob (the part most people didn't like about the 900). Several manufacturers added a 4th preamp tube instead of using diode clipping. Modern amps use the same tech, but just implement it in a different way. I went on to use this amp for everything from country to death metal. I can remember that I was always just satisfied with the sound. I listen back to recordings and the amp really was a beast.
Fast forward to 2024. I have sold all of my amps and have found my home with the various plugins and Axe III. The funniest thing about it is, the Fractal has 250+ amps and I end up using a Marshall. I say all of this to say, that often times limiting ourselves allows us to maximize the equipment that we have on hand. Some people can fork over a lot of money chasing tone, but at the end of the day maximizing the tools that you have nets better results. I love how Rectifiers, Marks, Diezels, 5150s, etc sound with other people playing through them, but I just don't jive with it when I play it. With the Fractal, I really gravitate between a Dumble and a Marshall (which are almost the same thing). I say if you know something stick with it.
All of that being said, there are several options for the modeling of a 5153, and having tried a lot of them, there are options at different price levels that can get that sound without a lot of effort. Neural DSP Gojira has a lot of great presets for that 5153 sound. If you have more money, I can't recommend Fractal Audio enough. Line 6 and of course Fender have some great options as well. I like the Fractal because I can explore all of the amps and see what I can do with them. Having played Marshalls my whole life, and recording with them in some pretty good studios, I can say that the Fractal sounds comparable to the sounds that I recorded with the real amp. I don't know how all of these amps sound, but when comparing a recording tone between an amp and the Fractal in a mix is not discernible to my ears. Modeling has come a long way, and these days it really just comes down to budget and use case.
Back in my day, you had to have a good tube amp to get professional quality sound. In 2024, there are so many options that it becomes hard to keep up with. I have really focused on what the amp sounds like in a mix as opposed to how it feels in the room. I don't really play live anymore, most local gigs occur past my bed time, so for me modeling and plugins are where its' at. Live, I can tell you there is a real visceral feeling standing in front of a full stack that no modeler can replace, especially when you find that feedback note that resonates with the building. I find that level of volume starts to take away from some of the details the ear can discern. At a headphone level, the visceral feeling goes away and then you hear the detail. Anyway, I'm just an old guy that has been trying to learn how to play guitar for most of my life, take my two cents for what it's worth.
Fast forward to 2024. I have sold all of my amps and have found my home with the various plugins and Axe III. The funniest thing about it is, the Fractal has 250+ amps and I end up using a Marshall. I say all of this to say, that often times limiting ourselves allows us to maximize the equipment that we have on hand. Some people can fork over a lot of money chasing tone, but at the end of the day maximizing the tools that you have nets better results. I love how Rectifiers, Marks, Diezels, 5150s, etc sound with other people playing through them, but I just don't jive with it when I play it. With the Fractal, I really gravitate between a Dumble and a Marshall (which are almost the same thing). I say if you know something stick with it.
All of that being said, there are several options for the modeling of a 5153, and having tried a lot of them, there are options at different price levels that can get that sound without a lot of effort. Neural DSP Gojira has a lot of great presets for that 5153 sound. If you have more money, I can't recommend Fractal Audio enough. Line 6 and of course Fender have some great options as well. I like the Fractal because I can explore all of the amps and see what I can do with them. Having played Marshalls my whole life, and recording with them in some pretty good studios, I can say that the Fractal sounds comparable to the sounds that I recorded with the real amp. I don't know how all of these amps sound, but when comparing a recording tone between an amp and the Fractal in a mix is not discernible to my ears. Modeling has come a long way, and these days it really just comes down to budget and use case.
Back in my day, you had to have a good tube amp to get professional quality sound. In 2024, there are so many options that it becomes hard to keep up with. I have really focused on what the amp sounds like in a mix as opposed to how it feels in the room. I don't really play live anymore, most local gigs occur past my bed time, so for me modeling and plugins are where its' at. Live, I can tell you there is a real visceral feeling standing in front of a full stack that no modeler can replace, especially when you find that feedback note that resonates with the building. I find that level of volume starts to take away from some of the details the ear can discern. At a headphone level, the visceral feeling goes away and then you hear the detail. Anyway, I'm just an old guy that has been trying to learn how to play guitar for most of my life, take my two cents for what it's worth.
Deadpool_25
Gearwhore no more? Nope. Still a gearwhore. :(
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2017
- Messages
- 3,905
- Reaction score
- 6,203
Hearing some good things lately about the Ampero Stage 2. Maybe check that out? Alongside a Fender FR-12 it could be a good sounding and relatively inexpensive rig.
Oh and the L6 Powercab is very meh in my experience and I've read plenty of people say the same. /shrug
Oh and the L6 Powercab is very meh in my experience and I've read plenty of people say the same. /shrug
CanserDYI
Yeah, No, Definitely.
I am extremely happy with my helix into Powerstage into a 2x12. Sounds absolutely fantastic and genuinely don't see myself changing this rig, it does everything I need it to. Loud as hell, sounds like really any amp I want it to, has every effect my dumb ass needs, and can go direct while still keeping a cab on stage, no brainer.
Fun fact: i ran hx stomp/ps200/412 but havent ran the axe3 into said 412
(matrix gt800).
Deadpool_25
Gearwhore no more? Nope. Still a gearwhore. :(
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2017
- Messages
- 3,905
- Reaction score
- 6,203
I've run the FM9 through my 2002 Mesa 4x12 with power from either the PS700 or the 50w EVH stealth. Great either way but I swear there is something extra special when running through the EVH 50w power sections.Fun fact: i ran hx stomp/ps200/412 but havent ran the axe3 into said 412
I can try it with the 5150 loop too, but likely wont
Deadpool_25
Gearwhore no more? Nope. Still a gearwhore. :(
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2017
- Messages
- 3,905
- Reaction score
- 6,203
Interestingly, it's not the same with the OG 5150 or even the 100w 5153 heads. It still works fine but the 50w 5153s power section just plays really well with the Fractal stuff (and the QC; presumably other modelers as well). My guess is it's something about the tube power section not being tube-buffered.I can try it with the 5150 loop too, but likely wont
NCASO96
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2021
- Messages
- 310
- Reaction score
- 228
some else mentioned the Ampeero mini... i might give that a shot along with my CATALYST as a powered speaker.
I was baffled by how bad the PC 112 plus sounded with the Helix! I didn't expect super tones out of the box, i invested time trying to get something usalbe.
ATRguitar91
Well-Known Member
The HX Stomp to me is a cut above all the other smaller cheaper modellers, and can be found for $400 used if you're patient. The versatility it unlocks is unparalleled, and the discount on Helix Native is a huge bonus. The other brands have solid offerings, but the continued support from Line6 puts it in a different league than something like Headrush and Hotone.
I was a tube and then solid state preamp guy forever, but getting the Stomp changed everything for me.
If you want the amp sound, that's easily achieved by running it into a poweramp and cab. I prefer solid state poweramps so my patches easily translate. Something like a Crown poweramp is cheap used and sounds amazing.
I think when people talk about missing the amp in the room feel, they're really only missing the cab in the room feel, which is admittedly very different than playing through monitors or an FRFR speaker. But that doesn't require a big tube amp. I sold my prized FJA modded 6505 and don't miss it at all. I've kept my 412s though, and the Stomp sounds huge through them.
I was a tube and then solid state preamp guy forever, but getting the Stomp changed everything for me.
If you want the amp sound, that's easily achieved by running it into a poweramp and cab. I prefer solid state poweramps so my patches easily translate. Something like a Crown poweramp is cheap used and sounds amazing.
I think when people talk about missing the amp in the room feel, they're really only missing the cab in the room feel, which is admittedly very different than playing through monitors or an FRFR speaker. But that doesn't require a big tube amp. I sold my prized FJA modded 6505 and don't miss it at all. I've kept my 412s though, and the Stomp sounds huge through them.
op1e
Spirit Taker
Get out of my head! My first tube amp was the same one. JCM900 mkiii. I always kept the diode gain off, regular gain halfway, and boosted it with guess what... A soundtank TS9 lol. It chirped like a car alarm when i hit the switch for some reason. It was all I could afford. I got the Marshall and an Ampeg 2x12 at Lentines for $650 in the early 90's. Traded it off for a pistol cause I got pissed and quit music for a minute. Guy at work sold it to another guy at work. Been trying to buy it back off him forever and he won't come off it. Just sits and collects dust with him.
NCASO96
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2021
- Messages
- 310
- Reaction score
- 228
thx to tax returns and bonuses....
my budget is now $1500. Not crazy... but enough to make some moves here.
im planning on keeping my CATALYST 200,,,, maybe getting another FRFR to use with it...
but i am considering a peavey 6505 mh with 2x12 cab....
but ... most like will stick with the digital /modeling PC route this time.
Rev2010
Contributor
Go with the modeler route with a solid state compact power amp ala Duncan Powerstage or something similar but with a real guitar cab. Or do the 6505 with cab,both good options. I just never get people using the FRFR speakers.
Rev2010
Contributor
I have a Triple Rec,and yeah they are absolute monsters! I've always preferred the Triple over the Dual because of the extra headroom, but that's me. Though the single Rec being 50 watts and having its own voice character that really screams and sounds more aggressive than both the Dual and Triple is something unto itself. 50w though on its own won't do for many live situations.
Shask
Well-Known Member
Get a tube poweramp to run the Helix through.
My FM3 through my 200W KT88 poweramp is pretty huge sounding
ATRguitar91
Well-Known Member
Consider a used PA poweramp. Something like a Crown XLS should have a lot more power than the Power stage and pairs great with a modeller.
Which powerstage do you have, out of interest?
youngthrasher9
Ur Mom Is Too Much Gain
@BadSeed has said a few times that the powerstage 170 and 200 aren’t the best for live situations a few times iirc, but I have heard that the 700 does the job in spades. There’s also the blackstar amped pedals that he also claims are plenty.
As far as going up against a triple rec, I have no clue. My rev G was the loudest amp I’ve ever owned and second I’ve ever heard right behind the Mark II coliseum that my buddy used to own. Maybe like a super high powered Crown or Matrix would be best?
TedEH
Cromulent
I tried the 200 for a while, and while it CAN do the job, it's situational - if you're in a well-behaved room with a band that doesn't crank everything to 11, and if you have a 4ohm cab that moves a lot of air, and if your particular sound is one that makes good use of perception of loudness, and if you've spent the time to gain-stage everything correctly, then you'll be ok. Throw any more than one or two wrenches in that plan though, and you'll run out of headroom very quickly.
I swapped the 200 for the 700 not too long ago, and while I've not had to deal with any un-ideal situations yet, I've had no problems yet.
