Unsatisfied with Black Winter bridge in LTD Phoenix

[Smoked Porter]

Hey all, I could use some help. I've got an LTD Phoenix-1000, and swapped out the stock JB/59 for Black Winters a couple months ago, and haven't really been able to get a sound I'm totally satisfied with. I have tried various pickup heights, and it just sounds dull, for lack of a better word (even with fresh strings). It sounds better than the JB did, but the "dullness" is still there. Sorry if that's vague.

The guitar is set up in Eb/drop Db, I'm playing Lamb of God, 90's Metallica, Soundgarden and Mastodon type stuff. For reference, my favorite 6 string pickups so far are the Dimarzio Titans in my SE Custom 24 (E standard/drop D). They've got the right amount of brightness (without being icepicky), aggression and clarity, and perform well in clean and low-medium gain situations. I'm just not sure if they would work in this huge slab of mahogany, though I'm open to trying.

I absolutely love the Black Winters 7s in my AW-7, for similar reasons to why I love the Titan, though they are voiced differently. I bought it used with a Duncan Pegasus in the bridge, and encountered the same dullness as I have right now in the Phoenix, and the BW cleared that right up. Obviously 6 and 7 string pickups generally don't sound exactly alike, and they're different guitars, but they have some common ground. Both are mahogany body, maple neck, ebony board, and not particularly light, so I was a little surprised to not really dig them in the Phoenix.

Hopefully this post isn't too long, just trying to paint as clear of a picture as possible. Any different pickups you guys would recommend? I'm willing to try one or two more in the bridge before I just decide to sell or trade the guitar, which I really would rather not do. Bareknuckles are too pricey, but I'm open to anything else around $250 or under for a set- Duncan, Dimarzio, or maybe the EMG 57/66 or Het Set. The Lace Hammer Claws and Dissonant Aggressors look interesting too. Thanks!

 

[JD27]

Not sure, I have Black Winters in my Phoenix 1000 and they really brought it to life. Much better than the stock JB/59 combo. I have them in quite a few 6's actually, I like them a lot. My other favorite is the SH-5/59 combo as far as Duncan goes. I also have the 57/66 and JHs in quite a few guitars now. I really like the 57/66s, they have a very nice hot PAF quality. I don't care for the JH set after playing them for a while now, I'm probably going to swap them for more 57/66s or maybe the new Fishman Moderns.

 

[stevexc]

Try the Nazgul. The BWs don't have that mid-bump that the Titan has, but the Nazgul definitely does. I'm not much of a fan of it personally but it might be what you need.

 

[Smoked Porter]

Not sure, I have Black Winters in my Phoenix 1000 and they really brought it to life. Much better than the stock JB/59 combo. I have them in quite a few 6's actually, I like them a lot. My other favorite is the SH-5/59 combo as far as Duncan goes. I also have the 57/66 and JHs in quite a few guitars now. I really like the 57/66s, they have a very nice hot PAF quality. I don't care for the JH set after playing them for a while now, I'm probably going to swap them for more 57/66s or maybe the new Fishman Moderns.

Sorry if it's a dumb question, but would you say there's a notable difference between the 57/66 and Black Winters? I was leaning more towards those already as I typed up the OP, figured going from passives to actives would be pretty likely to give a different voice to this guitar and liven things up.

I'm thinking that I'll give the Black Winters a go in my SGJ once they're out of this guitar.

Try the Nazgul. The BWs don't have that mid-bump that the Titan has, but the Nazgul definitely does. I'm not much of a fan of it personally but it might be what you need.

I don't like the Nazgul in my KM-7, but what isn't so great in that may work in this. Thanks for the food for thought.

 

[RustInPeace]

I didnt like the nazgul in my km-7 either, but love the black winter 7's in there now. Maybe you need a brighter pickup in general, as I find the BW is very neutral.

 

[JD27]

Sorry if it's a dumb question, but would you say there's a notable difference between the 57/66 and Black Winters? I was leaning more towards those already as I typed up the OP, figured going from passives to actives would be pretty likely to give a different voice to this guitar and liven things up.

I'm thinking that I'll give the Black Winters a go in my SGJ once they're out of this guitar.

Very different. The BWs are closer to Distortions, both are ceramic. The 57/66 is closer to something like a SH-14 Custom 5.

 

[ProphetOfHatred]

Distortion is a bit brighter as far as I know. I'd try that.

 

[Baelzebeard]

You could try d-activators. They might add the brightness and clarity you want.

 

[Desolate1]

What value volume and tone pots do you have in the guitar? You can increase their values to brighten up the tone some. I use 500K volume and tone pot in my 6, 7 and 8 strings with Black Winters and have no issue with any of them being dark or muddy. Each of these guitars is the same wood combo as you have mahogany body, maple neck with ebony board with a maple top.

 

[Smoked Porter]

The guitar is just one volume, no tone. I think the other knob was originally a second volume, but I bought it used and that's how it came. Not sure what value it is, though. I think 500k, but could be wrong.

I should note that I'm not having a clarity or mud problem, just the overall sound isn't my favorite, and I may just be being too picky. I kind of figured complaining of dullness in the OP wouldn't be descriptive enough, that's just the best way I could put it.

At the moment I'm leaning towards EMG 57/66 or Lace Hammer Claws, just for the sake of trying something new.

 

[DudeManBrother]

What value volume and tone pots do you have in the guitar? You can increase their values to brighten up the tone some. I use 500K volume and tone pot in my 6, 7 and 8 strings with Black Winters and have no issue with any of them being dark or muddy. Each of these guitars is the same wood combo as you have mahogany body, maple neck with ebony board with a maple top.

This. Get some quality CTS 500k pots and then you can try a few different resister values for the fine tuning. Should do the trick.

 

[PunkBillCarson]

Really? I've loved my BW's ever since I got them. Planning on getting an Ibanez IC500, taking out the D-Activators and putting BW's in it.

 

[Alex79]

Sounds like the guitar needs something very bright.
New pot might also help.

 

[TKOA-Dex]

My friend loves his black winters in his RG and they sound really good. My only guess would be that maybe you don't like them because well, they are black metal pickups, scooped mids and stuff. Especially since you are comparing them to Titans. Why not see if you can sell or trade them to get some Titans into that EC-1000?

 

[CaptainD00M]

Not sure, I have Black Winters in my Phoenix 1000 and they really brought it to life. Much better than the stock JB/59 combo. I have them in quite a few 6's actually, I like them a lot. My other favorite is the SH-5/59 combo as far as Duncan goes. I also have the 57/66 and JHs in quite a few guitars now. I really like the 57/66s, they have a very nice hot PAF quality. I don't care for the JH set after playing them for a while now, I'm probably going to swap them for more 57/66s or maybe the new Fishman Moderns.

The more I hear about the BW's the more I wonder about putting them into a guitar. I've also heard that an Alnico Mag-swap makes them even more badass

But the question I must ask, is will they Sludge?

Back on topic:
I would say look at your electrics then think about new Pickups.

 

[RustInPeace]

My friend loves his black winters in his RG and they sound really good. My only guess would be that maybe you don't like them because well, they are black metal pickups, scooped mids and stuff. Especially since you are comparing them to Titans. Why not see if you can sell or trade them to get some Titans into that EC-1000?

I wouldnt say they are scooped in the mids. They just arent pushing midrange like all the new trendy djenty pickups...

 

[CaptainD00M]

I wouldnt say they are scooped in the mids. They just arent pushing midrange like all the new trendy djenty pickups...

Black Metal is hardly scooped in the mids, that was more later thrash and groove metal ala-Pantera.

Lets be real here also its not that pickups like the Nazgul, Titan etc… are just pushing mids, its that they are pushing a very specific band of upper mids usually around the 1.4hz mark as this is what the djent-dethcore contingent seem to favour. I guess because it lends itself to the 'tight' attack that is favoured by a lot of 'modern-metal' players.

'Trendy' yeah maybe, but lets be real here its not going anywhere and YMMV but that doest make it any less legitimate. I mean hell some of the forum members here will probably remember when people were saying that Pantera was 'trendy' and that 'these young kids all seem to be into these high gain scooped mid sounds, and Bill Lawrence XL's and EMG's'. 25 years on from Cowboys its pretty difficult to argue that Pantera didn't have a legitimate impact on metal and a particular metal 'sound' just like Periphery, born-of-monuments, bring-me-the-intervals or uneaven-animals-after-the-controtionist represent a particular sound.

Most of the PU's that people rave about on this board push mids, its just which band of Mid do they push. JB's push mids, so do customs, Super distortions etc.. but thats more lower mid for the thicker 'classic' sound.

Considering what OP likes to play along with I'm kind of surprised he likes the Titans, I would have thought something like the BW or maybe a custom/59 or Dimarzio SD/PAF Pro might work better.

Edit:
Sorry bit of a rant, I'll go back to my cave now

 

[Anant Naag]

Hammerckaws

 

[Djentliman]

If a pickup change is not doing it for you then maybe try swapping the saddles and nut for something from graphtech. Bone is usually brighter and the string savers offer more of the whole frequency range giving it a perceived darkness when in reality you are hearing more. They definitely helped my guitars wake up.

 

[TremontiFan16]

If it's not anything above,seriously the emg 57 66 set is awesome.