Unsure of fret type/possible crown issues?

[CW7]

Hey guys-

I have what I think is a rather unique issue. I just picked up a mint condition Aristides 080. (for the curious, it's an AMAZING piece of engineering, as well as instrument.). BUT- after a few days of serious play time, something was "off". (my main basis for comparison are 2 guitars : My beaten RG8, and a Vader 7, both 27" scale). Both have the same brand and gauge of strings, tuned the same, etc...

After MUCH research, I took a good look at the frets, (and had a couple of other long time players whose opinion I trust), and I am finding they are MUCH more "pointy" or almost triangle/trapezoidal, where every other guitar I play/tour with is a much more rounded/flat feel. I've included a couple of amateur pics to try and illustrate what I am feeling/seeing. (the RG8 is the rosewood pic, the light maple colored one is the new 080 with said pointy frets, for lack of a better word).

I am considering taking it to my luthier to see if he can round these out to a smoother feel. I imagine once doing that, it will feel more "at home" - right now, it just feels like it's fighting me. (even with the action RIDICULOUSLY low, which is pretty easily attainable since the neck and fretwork is so solid). the best i could come up with is , knowing they use Jescar frets, is it's the FW51108, as opposed to the FW57110, which is their stock jumbo they are using- pic attached to illustrate the Jescar profiles ).

Thoughts? ideas? Confirmation I am not bonkers? lol



Thanks for any advice.

 

[ImBCRichBitch]

they just look like theyre crowned with a higher arch than the Rg to me. you could probably get em lowered if you want at a luthier. But personally if theres no problems with it i say dont worry about it

 

[GuitarBizarre]

Doesn't look like a problem to me. New frets have more material in. The actual arch/crown looks pretty much the same, the ends on the new one are just finished in more of a "factory" way.

You're probably just used to the material taken off your older frets over time.

 

[marcwormjim]

A few perspectives:

A guitar that expensive should feel perfect, otherwise you'll never bond with it - That lends toward the idea of having the frets re-crowned to be more like, or replaced entirely with, what you prefer.

But also consider the mojo of the guitar: A strat with medium nickel frets feels like a strat because it doesn't have the jumbo, wide frets an Ibanez RG is associated with.

The Parker Fly was known for having narrow, medium, stainless steel frets. In the 00's, the profile of the fret was changed enough to throw people off in a manner similar to what you're experiencing - Things just felt "off"; and became a dealbreaker for some.

A YouTube guitarist named Marshall Harrison bought a Vigier Shawn Lane, whose signature specs included a perfectly-flat fingerboard with medium frets, and a fat, D-shaped neck to compensate for the sake of comfort. The guitar also has low-output humbuckers, with 1M pots; for a specific tone that many find overly bright, thin, and weak. Harrison had always preferred jumbo stainless frets; and immediately had the guitar refretted and pickups replaced. He claimed that these mods radically changed the guitar into something that he wasn't as comfortable with; and he ended up buying another one and keeping it stock.

In the last year, I refretted one of my Ibanez RGs with medium stainless - It no longer feels like an Ibanez RG; and playing it just makes me wonder why I don't play one of my "nicer" guitars that also has those frets on it, or a different RG with the frets one associates with them.

I mention these anecdotes because, while you have every right to dial your investment in until it feels and sounds perfect, so long as you have other guitars, you may wish to let the quirks of each one grow on you. At the end of the day, it's the characteristics specific to each guitar that inspires you to play things that the others won't.

As always, your mileage may vary.

 

[Flash]

What feels off exactly? For me when something feels off I look to see if the bridge is level, perhaps take a spring off and adjust all that crap (bridge/nut height, action etc.) Frets only concern me with buzzing, intonation, and action sometimes, like when I can't get the action low enough without buzzing.

 

[CW7]

A few perspectives:

A guitar that expensive should feel perfect, otherwise you'll never bond with it - That lends toward the idea of having the frets re-crowned to be more like, or replaced entirely with, what you prefer.

But also consider the mojo of the guitar: A strat with medium nickel frets feels like a strat because it doesn't have the jumbo, wide frets an Ibanez RG is associated with.

The Parker Fly was known for having narrow, medium, stainless steel frets. In the 00's, the profile of the fret was changed enough to throw people off in a manner similar to what you're experiencing - Things just felt "off"; and became a dealbreaker for some.

A YouTube guitarist named Marshall Harrison bought a Vigier Shawn Lane, whose signature specs included a perfectly-flat fingerboard with medium frets, and a fat, D-shaped neck to compensate for the sake of comfort. The guitar also has low-output humbuckers, with 1M pots; for a specific tone that many find overly bright, thin, and weak. Harrison had always preferred jumbo stainless frets; and immediately had the guitar refretted and pickups replaced. He claimed that these mods radically changed the guitar into something that he wasn't as comfortable with; and he ended up buying another one and keeping it stock.

In the last year, I refretted one of my Ibanez RGs with medium stainless - It no longer feels like an Ibanez RG; and playing it just makes me wonder why I don't play one of my "nicer" guitars that also has those frets on it, or a different RG with the frets one associates with them.

I mention these anecdotes because, while you have every right to dial your investment in until it feels and sounds perfect, so long as you have other guitars, you may wish to let the quirks of each one grow on you. At the end of the day, it's the characteristics specific to each guitar that inspires you to play things that the others won't.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Thanks so much for the detailed thoughts. A couple of funny things arise...

You mentioned the Parker, and I was an early adopter. I worked at a big local retail store when the Deluxe was released in the late 90s, and I IMMEDIATELY knew I had to have one after only minutes of play time. It was, and still is, one of my favorite playing guitars, and it's become somewhat of a barometer for me as far as a 6 string goes. (it's also the guitar that sold me on SS frets from that point forward).

I am a long time follower of Marshall. (I am actually one of the few people I know who bought his transcribed classical pieces for 7 string guitar. I spent WAY too much time - and probably accelerated my soon to be a problem carpal tunnel - working through that book). I ALSO own one of those exact guitars you speak of. And funny enough, for a SHORT time, I considered the "marshall mod", since the frets do feel TINY after moving from something like my Vader or HH that has the big ole Jumbos and going back to the Shawn Lane. BUT- as you pointed out... that guitar is made that way for a reason, and it DEFINITELY has a vibe all it's own. I've since decided against said mod, to keep it as close to stock as possible.

So, I do identify with the mojo aspect. I guess I am torn between that and the aforementioned idea of "this guitar was about what my first car cost, shouldn't it feel exactly the way I want it too?...".

I am not sure the pics illustrate the whole picture. After comparing to my entire collection, it's definitely a profile I've never experienced before. They just feel quite triangular, bumpy, and almost scalloped ; Maybe because of the narrower profile, along with the slight peak. Whatever it is, the only way I can translate what I mean when I say "it feels off" is that it, well, slows me down. I am a fusion guy by nature, and while I am certainly doing a lot of rhythm and 2 handed work on this guitar, it will see it's fair share of soloing, and I wasn't expecting to drop that kind of coin on a strictly "rhythm guitar". (I am exaggerating here to make the point- it's certainly not BAD, but it's enough to make me second guess if I will avoid studio work with it for said issue).

*As a side, for those that are thinking I may be being overly picky (which I probably am...). The quick back story is, 25 years ago or so (yes, I am not a young buck anymore) I was practicing hours a day, had 13s on my guitars, and played harder than I definitely ever needed to. My old nickel fretted Ibanezs look like fretless wonders. Fast forward to just about 3 years ago, and I had carpal tunnel so bad I needed surgery on BOTH hands. I staggered the surgeries so I wasn't a total invalid (and so I could continue to tour and play for a living, as that's my main income for the household). Case in point : I DRASTICALLY altered my playing style during and after recovery. I play a lot lighter now, and almost exclusively legato and hybrid. (I always played with my other fingers on my right hand- it just seemed natural - but now it's imbedded much deeper into my approach). All that to say I have found I am MUCH more astute to small changes in fret height, width, level, neck adjustment, etc... the smallest changes jump out at me like a sore thumb. Yes, I can play pretty much whatever I have in my hands. (I played numerous guitars on the road, from high end Steinbergers back in the day to old, 300 dollar specials because I knew they would get beat up anyways).

SO.. hope I don't sound like I am overly concerned about this whole thing. I may take a trip to see my luthier buddy, if for no other reason I don't have calipers here and I'd like to get a measurement of the wire for reference as to what is actually on the guitar. Thanks again to everyone so far for the suggestions. I plan on doing a short NGD/review when I get a few spare minutes. Aside from this minor ,fixable personal issue, the guitar is AMAZING. I have already started my spec list for #2. I was looking for something to replace my soon to be retired Bergers, and once I work out my fret preference, I think these are it.

 

[CW7]

What feels off exactly? For me when something feels off I look to see if the bridge is level, perhaps take a spring off and adjust all that crap (bridge/nut height, action etc.) Frets only concern me with buzzing, intonation, and action sometimes, like when I can't get the action low enough without buzzing.

It's not a "problem" per say. The fret work is IMMACULATE. It's just quite different in feel to me from all of my other guitars. They are quite "speed bump" like, with the peaks. I use a pretty light touch, and even so, it feels like I am getting resistance where on my other axes I feel like I can glide around with very little effort. again, i know it wounds wonky to explain. Going to have my buddy caliper them and see what's on there so I can figure out if I am just going to suck it up or have them brought down to a more rounded profile.

 

[Flash]

It's not a "problem" per say. The fret work is IMMACULATE. It's just quite different in feel to me from all of my other guitars. They are quite "speed bump" like, with the peaks. I use a pretty light touch, and even so, it feels like I am getting resistance where on my other axes I feel like I can glide around with very little effort. again, i know it wounds wonky to explain. Going to have my buddy caliper them and see what's on there so I can figure out if I am just going to suck it up or have them brought down to a more rounded profile.

Does that mean you and/or your friends have eliminated everything else and are down to the frets or are the frets a hunch? Me personally if it gets down to recrowning the frets I would do it. It either fixes the issue or confirms the frets are not the issue. Good luck.

 

[Petar Bogdanov]

Re-crowning the frets doesn't make sense. They aren't square, so they don't need to be rounded.

What you are actually feeling is the point at the top at the end of the fret, which kind of looks like it was rounded with a tri-corner file. A luthier would definitely be able to knock that back, either by re-polishing the frets and focusing on the edges, or with a fret end file such as this.
http://www.madinter.com/hosco-fret-end-file-r3-mm.html?___store=en&___from_store=default

 

[pondman]

I don't see anything wrong with those frets and they aren't very pointy at all. The way the fret ends are filed (leaving a diamond shape on the end only) just makes them look that way. Take another look and ignore the diamond shape created by the file on the fret ends and you'll see what I mean.

 

[CW7]

Thanks guys- it further make me think I AM going nuts, Arisitides confirmed they ARE actually the jumbo (not medium jumbo which is what the original owner thought he got). I'm going to have my luthier set it up to my specs and re-evaluate. Maybe this sinus stuff I've got has my head in an idiot fog. lol I'll report back once I figure out what's up.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

The more narrow crown will lend itself to more precise intonation in conjunction with your saddle adjustments.

Feeling "perfect" is so subjective anyway, I'd be hard pressed to imply that while my guitar feels perfect to me according to my setup needs, that it would be the same if another player were to pick it up.

Regarding the diamond tip, a simple kissing that point down to more of a spherical end may be more to your liking. It is smoother feeling as you go up & down the neck.

 

[CW7]

Does that mean you and/or your friends have eliminated everything else and are down to the frets or are the frets a hunch? Me personally if it gets down to recrowning the frets I would do it. It either fixes the issue or confirms the frets are not the issue. Good luck.

I have definitely narrowed it down to the frets. Everything else is the same, spec wise. (from my comparison to my other 8). I DID confirm the wire they used, and it's the same jumbo specs (different brand) as my Kiesels (i have a Vader and Holdsworth HH2). I am going to my luthier tomorrow to have him put his much more astute eye than mine on it, and give me his opinion. (I am also bringing the above guitars, so he has a reference to what I am usually comfortable on). Hopefully I'll be to the bottom of this, soon. thanks for the input.