Wes Hauch/Aaron Marshall "secret setup"

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I have setup secrets that I don’t necessarily share because I want the repeat business of those customers, and they come back to me over and over with existing instruments as well as new instruments for that very reason, I set their instruments up to their desired perfection. Nothing nefarious, just proprietary business sense. Supply/demand.

 

[Asdrael]

What is fallaway? Initially I thought you meant relief, but after reading all your points, it sounds like it's something different.



How so? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely curious about this.

A fallaway is just a method of fancy leveling. Basically instead of having all frets perfectly level, you add a drop off after fret 15 or so, so the fret height gradually gets lower. Typically achieved by taping up fret 12 and half of your leveling beam and "over leveling" the high register this way.

And as pickups are magnetic, if they are too par to the string they will influence their oscillations. That will mess up sustain first then pitch.

 

[soul_lip_mike]

I don't get why Artists wouldn't share their fractal presets.

 

[RevDrucifer]

I don't get why Artists wouldn't share their fractal presets.

Some do, Wes being one of them.

I think there’s a degree of “Don’t give those away for free, we can monetize them” and since it’s a fairly low profit point, it doesn’t get done.

Kinda saw this happen with Devin Townsend where he said for a year or two he‘d give away his Fractal preset(s), then he paused on it for a bit because NDSP was making a plug-in with him, then we got it for Christmas last year (Fractal preset plus his IR).

Then there’s the “I don’t want to give away my secrets” guys, which I‘ve always found silly because it doesn’t matter how many secrets you got, no one else is gonna sound like you.

 

[odibrom]

What is fallaway? Initially I thought you meant relief, but after reading all your points, it sounds like it's something different.



How so? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely curious about this.

As @Asdrael said, a Fall Away is a way of leveling the frets where the higher register (12th to 24th frets or so) gets a bit more material removing or use smaller frets, in the area where the strings' vibration arch is bigger. This allows for smaller action at lower register without fret buzz.

With fixed bridge guitars, this effect can be achieved by a correct setup of bridge/saddle height, nut slots and neck relieve.

However, with floating trems, when one pulls the strings pitch up, the strings' action lowers almost 2mm some times (depending on the saddles' intonation position), to the point where some strings will choke on frets. This is when I think the Fall Away approach to fret leveling gets its practical use and pertinence.

 

[Stiman]

As @Asdrael said, a Fall Away is a way of leveling the frets where the higher register (12th to 24th frets or so) gets a bit more material removing or use smaller frets, in the area where the strings' vibration arch is bigger. This allows for smaller action at lower register without fret buzz.

With fixed bridge guitars, this effect can be achieved by a correct setup of bridge/saddle height, nut slots and neck relieve.

However, with floating trems, when one pulls the strings pitch up, the strings' action lowers almost 2mm some times (depending on the saddles' intonation position), to the point where some strings will choke on frets. This is when I think the Fall Away approach to fret leveling gets its practical use and pertinence.

Very interesting. I think I'm already achieving this with my guitars. Both RG550 and my RG752 (fixed bridge) have about 1.25 mm action at 12th fret and 24th. With the low strings a little higher of course. I wonder if I could get lower but typically any lower than 1.25 mm on any guitar I've owed, becomes far too buzzy.

 

[Richter]

Reminds me of Blackmore adding mystery secret screws on his headstock to piss people off

 

[Stiman]

Reminds me of this thread:

Thing on fingers?

ive seen some players use things like a rubber band or hair tie on the index and middle or index middle and ring finger while player. why do they do this. does it help with playing somehow? heres an example

www.sevenstring.org

 

[DimMak]

Some do, Wes being one of them.

I think there’s a degree of “Don’t give those away for free, we can monetize them” and since it’s a fairly low profit point, it doesn’t get done.

Kinda saw this happen with Devin Townsend where he said for a year or two he‘d give away his Fractal preset(s), then he paused on it for a bit because NDSP was making a plug-in with him, then we got it for Christmas last year (Fractal preset plus his IR).

Then there’s the “I don’t want to give away my secrets” guys, which I‘ve always found silly because it doesn’t matter how many secrets you got, no one else is gonna sound like you.

I would be interesting in a Dev plugin. Is that still happening?

 

[Kyle Jordan]

I would be interesting in a Dev plugin. Is that still happening?

He and Vai are apparently getting one each this year.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

^NDSP will do everything but make a Hub plugin.

I watched the video. It's cutting the nut slots. In all my time playing I've never picked up a factory guitar that didn't need the nut slots lowered. Which is a good thing because it leaves you the option to file them to your string gauge and action preferences.

From there you can widen the slot for the specific string gauge, have the heavier gauge slots that little bit higher, thinner strings can be lower, add or take away radius, lube the slots to further prevent any string catching, round any sharp corners etc

If that's not working then replace the nut with a higher quality material and file the string slots yourself, having equal string distance from the centre or add in fractions of a mm to accommodate for the wider lower gauges to retain the equal string spacing.

Then after that there is a hundred different ways to setup the action, radius, neck relief, fall away etc etc. This isn't an attack on famous guitarists but 99% of them don't know how to setup their instruments. That's not their area and it's fine. So it's common to hear things like this in interviews. You want to hear special setup tricks and techniques than talk to an experienced lutheir or tech.

 

[SalsaWood]

I have setup secrets that I don’t necessarily share because I want the repeat business of those customers, and they come back to me over and over with existing instruments as well as new instruments for that very reason, I set their instruments up to their desired perfection. Nothing nefarious, just proprietary business sense. Supply/demand.

I sympathize with that stance, but it's not rocket science. You don't need to hook guitars up to multi thousand dollar dealer tools for diagnostics, ain't nobody ever died from a guitar that wasn't set up correctly. Personally I would pay you for the good labor, with yourself knowing what you're doing being the absolute most basic expectation. If you can't tell me what was done specifically and why I'm going to either figure it out myself or think you don't actually understand what and why. It's really a matter of getting and giving proper feedback so that the customer can have a more greatly improved instrument and the tech can get better at applying the appropriate methods to get there. You're probably not keeping a file on each customer's tastes, the different lexicons they use, or even what strings they use job to job. It's so much easier to get the customer on the exact same page and go from there IME, on both sides of it. Even just slight differences in lexicon when talking shop between customer and technicians can lead to absolutely catastrophic results in some business.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

These guys market themselves as "guitar knowing people" and need to always push the idea that there's some special sauce only they know and thus you need to hit "like" and "subscribe" buttons and maybe they'll drop the secret, and of course the more merchandise with their name on it you buy the more likely you are to figure out what's so special. Don't forget to white knight for them on the internet, they just might see and reward you for your work.

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

I can relate to both points of view. It's hard to just give away something that took you a lot of effort or experimentation to do.

But at same time it feels like such an asshole thing to keep secret. Like "oooooh mystery man, better keep those settings hidden before I steal all your success" . It's just guitar settings, not bank account or business strategy. I always end up talking and sharing anyway because I just can't shut the fuck up.

 

[Musiscience]

Guitar setups have so few variables, and they have all been widely explored. Doubt it’s anything really special that would blow your mind.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Guitar setups have so few variables, and they have all been widely explored. Doubt it’s anything really special that would blow your mind.

Eh, there’s a shitload of variables that come into play for something just like action, bending, fret wear and fingerboard radius with different ways to resolve an issue depending on the particular player.

Just an intonation issue can be from any number of things, to an improperly cut nut pickups being too high and any variation of those things occurring to throw things off.

 

[Musiscience]

Eh, there’s a shitload of variables that come into play for something just like action, bending, fret wear and fingerboard radius with different ways to resolve an issue depending on the particular player.

Just an intonation issue can be from any number of things, to an improperly cut nut pickups being too high and any variation of those things occurring to throw things off.

What I mean is that it's quite straightforward in the grand scheme of things, and has all already been fully explored, figured out and widely documented. The number of variables is relatively much lower than many other industries/products (electronics, automotive, etc.).

Measure nut height and file in angle with the string to post, make sure the frets are levelled, tune up, adjust relief with a gauge, set string height, adjust intonation, adjust pickup height and you're good to go. As an example, I just made a full neck re-radius, refinish, fret change, nut change, reassembly and full setup without prior luthier experience. It was a lot of work, but honestly straightforward enough and nothing that would warrant treating as a big industry secret. This was the worst case scenario in terms of set-up, as everything was from the ground up. Yet it plays really smooth, low action, no buzz, etc., and I'm a nobody with little experience getting the info from widely available sources.

Just echoing Max's post, that it has a lot to do with pro guitar players marketing themselves as possessing some mystique special sauce. Spoiler: there is none.

 

[Jonathan20022]

If you put more than like 2 minutes into thinking about this then I got something to tell you, whatever it is isn't whats keeping you from being able to play that lick you can't get down.

 

[JimF]

If you put more than like 2 minutes into thinking about this then I got something to tell you, whatever it is isn't whats keeping you from being able to play that lick you can't get down.

That's because I don't have an LACS Iceman, right?

 

[bmtf]

I put my rg2127x in secret tuning, guess what it is and I'll make a NGD thread for it finally