Why does my drop C guitar sound the best?

[guitarfan85]

I have two amps.

Peavey VK 100w
Peavey VIP 2 40w

I have three guitars

Prs se c22 stock pickups in drop C with .010 - .046
Prs se soapbar ii with a Bkp warpig Pig 90 in drop A .011-.056
Gibson LP special with a DiMarzio dominion bridge in drop A .013 - .065

the first guitar sounds best to me even though it has stock pickups. Not saying prs se pickups are bad, but the guitar just sounds better On both amps. Could it be the amps/speakers are not meant to handle drop A so therefore it sounds muddy compared to drop C? What is it exactly? Certainly the BKP and dominion are Hotter and probably all around "better" than stock prs se pickups, no?

On that note, are there better amps/speakers designed to specifically handle low tunings like drop A?

 

[PiggySmallz]

When I detune my guitars I always drop the gain down with them. I also make sure I have the proper gauge strings for the tuning. If the strings are too loose, it will sound muddy. Try lowering the gain when you play the drop a guitars.

Drop C is my favorite tuning also by the way, it just has the perfect tone and feel for me.

 

[FILTHnFEAR]

Why does your drop C guitar sound the best?

Because that's what you prefer I guess.

I think drop C and D sound better that A. More definition, crunch, and punch to me. I feel the lower you tune, the rounder and looser the tone gets.

Try your other two guitars with the same tuning and string gauges and then compare which one sounds the best.

 

[jephjacques]

Aftermarket pickups aren't objectively *better* than stock pickups from reputable companies, it all just comes down to personal taste. If the stock PRS pups are working for you, great!

Agreed with the poster above, too- drop A can be a fiddly tuning depending on your scale length, string gauges, and pickups. Traditional guitars aren't really "meant" to be tuned that low so they can often respond in unusual ways.

 

[guitarfan85]

I don't necessarily prefer one tuning over the other.

I'm not sure if it's the traditional guitar being tuned that low that's so much the problem as it is the amp. The string gauge and tension I have for that scale length is proper enough. It feels fine to me, so it should sound fine. The strings aren't flubby, so why should the tone be?

does anyone else think that the problem is the amp that isn't meant for low tunings? my les paul has been out of commission for two years. And I just upgraded all the hardware and electronics on it and got it back last week for the first time. So I'm really looking for a reason not to blame the guitar, lol. but I really don't think the problem the tuning by itself, I just think it's the amp itself.

because certainly other bands have les Paul's tuned to B and drop A and their rig sounds tight, correct?

 

[ihunda]

Do you use a pedal in front of the amp, like a tubescreamer or any other teblle boost? If not, problem solved....

 

[guitarfan85]

Do you use a pedal in front of the amp, like a tubescreamer or any other teblle boost? If not, problem solved....

Yes I do use a bad mOnkey. I plug all my guitars into the same setup. Even on my vip2 digital amp where there needn't be anything in front of that. Just plug straight in and turn the dial to 6505 for brutal bedroom tones

 

[Hachetjoel]

I think this is a great time for an experiment , tune all three to drop C than drop A, see if it's the tuning or the guitar.

 

[mniel8195]

Drop c is the only tuning I really like for. 6 string. Pc holds just sound more open and bigger. Plus having he low c is where I really start feeling the chug. After that I move over to 7 string guitars for lower tunings
P

 

[Lost of All Reason]

Your amp is one of, if not literally THE, the last piece of your sound you'll want to dial in here. Do NOT underestimate the effect different tunings have on your sound. String tension and pitch literally effects everything else about how you play and how that playing sounds to the ear.

The difference between drop D and drop C#, for instance is like playing a new instrument. Nowhere close to the same. So keep in mind that dropping to A will never sound like C, no matter what amp. This much is obvious... but think about WHY. You will never find an amp that will give you that same C "feel" in A tuning. Because you'll never replicate the dynamics that that key and specific string tension produce.

Pickups and amps and tone and all that bull.... only matters after you've figured out the type of dynamics you're going for and in what key.

For instance, for some of my songs I drop my low E down to A. That's a very loose string.. but it gives me the sound I'm looking for for that specific song. Loose as hell, deep and round. Notes on that string blur together in awesome dynamic ways.. almost sounding like synth pads with slow attack. That's what I'm going for there. In other songs, that's just trash. It doesn't take an amp change to make it not sound like trash, nor any other magic formula - just discerning when it's appropriate and when it calls for something else.

I would advise paying attention to song key, and it's application, long long before you try to reach for a magic amp that makes drop A sound like C

 

[-42-]

Might be your ear, might be how the amps are EQed, might be your strings, etc. It's worth noting that when you use strings that are 'skinny' for your intended tuning (i.e. 10-46 for drop C) they tend to sound crunchier and more aggressive because you're getting more overtones and less of the fundamental (or something along those lines someone with more theoretical knowledge please step in if I'm talking out of my ass). A lot of dudes like that sound and you may be one of those dudes, just a thought.

 

[guitarfan85]

Your amp is one of, if not literally THE, the last piece of your sound you'll want to dial in here. Do NOT underestimate the effect different tunings have on your sound. String tension and pitch literally effects everything else about how you play and how that playing sounds to the ear.

The difference between drop D and drop C#, for instance is like playing a new instrument. Nowhere close to the same. So keep in mind that dropping to A will never sound like C, no matter what amp. This much is obvious... but think about WHY. You will never find an amp that will give you that same C "feel" in A tuning. Because you'll never replicate the dynamics that that key and specific string tension produce.

Pickups and amps and tone and all that bull.... only matters after you've figured out the type of dynamics you're going for and in what key.

For instance, for some of my songs I drop my low E down to A. That's a very loose string.. but it gives me the sound I'm looking for for that specific song. Loose as hell, deep and round. Notes on that string blur together in awesome dynamic ways.. almost sounding like synth pads with slow attack. That's what I'm going for there. In other songs, that's just trash. It doesn't take an amp change to make it not sound like trash, nor any other magic formula - just discerning when it's appropriate and when it calls for something else.

I would advise paying attention to song key, and it's application, long long before you try to reach for a magic amp that makes drop A sound like C

Thanks for your input. I get what your saying, but like I said the string tension is nice and tight on the gibson. The soapbar ii tension is looser but produces simular sound. The drop C guitars tension is a bit loose, more loose than my gibson in fact. But has the best sound. So my les paul with the tightest strings should sound the tightest according to you (if I understood you correctly). But it doesnt. I'm not sure what you mean about dynamics.

If your suggesting the scale length of the guitar does not match the string tension, it makes sense until i realize that I actually have two different guitars with two different scale lengths with two different string tensions......and two different pickups, both tuned to drop A, yet THOSE two guitars sound similar through the same amp. So wouldn't that rule out your theory?

trying to match all 3 axes to same strings and tuning isn't possible now because I have the guitars properly setup with widened nut slots and all and I don't feel comfortable messing with the balance of things right now.

 

[Alex79]

I had a somewhat comparable problem once, that I needed to sell a guitar, but couldn't choose. All my guitars were nice players, so it came down to sound and the only way I could really compare them was to tune all 3 of my "normal scale" guitars to the same tuning for comparison. It was a eye-opener though, I even recorded them so I could hear the results in direct comparison.

As others noted, your guitars aren't really made to be tuned that low (Drop A), so you will always be sacrificing something. In addition, most guitar speakers struggle a lot with such low frequencies. What cab/speakers are you using?

 

[guitarfan85]

I had a somewhat comparable problem once, that I needed to sell a guitar, but couldn't choose. All my guitars were nice players, so it came down to sound and the only way I could really compare them was to tune all 3 of my "normal scale" guitars to the same tuning for comparison. It was a eye-opener though, I even recorded them so I could hear the results in direct comparison.

As others noted, your guitars aren't really made to be tuned that low (Drop A), so you will always be sacrificing something. In addition, most guitar speakers struggle a lot with such low frequencies. What cab/speakers are you using?

Hey I got a valveking100w with a 412 I bought used. I'm assuming they are the stock speakers though...

 

[onionofdoom]

My thinking is that the reason your Drop C guitar sounds the best to you is a combination of scale length and gear setup- a 25" scale PRS isn't optimal for Drop A, same story with the 24.75 on the Gibson. I'm not saying it can't be done, but Drop C tuning is probably better suited to short scale sixers than A.
The only real way to tell would be to have them all in the same tuning.

That said, I play mainly in Drop C# with my PRS but occasionally lower the bottom string to A# to play some Alter Bridge. I've found that the best way to avoid mud is to use thicker strings. I use a .70 for A#. Not everyone will be into that kind of tension but to me a .46 in C and .56 in A would be very floppy (I use a .59 for C#)
The difference between C and A when using strings that aren't thick enough is drastic in my opinion- the lower you tune without adequate tension the worse it gets.

Also, as others have said it's a drastic difference- I wouldn't expect to be able to keep the same amp settings between guitars. You might find that tweaking for each tuning provides the best results.

To sum up- try tweaking your settings according to tuning, and it sounds like some thicker strings might be in order. There's very little tension difference between 25" and 24.75, so you're best off using the same set on both the Soapbar and the Gibson.

On an entirely different note, how do you rate the Pig 90? I was planning on dropping one in an SE Soapbar, funnily enough.

 

[guitarfan85]

My thinking is that the reason your Drop C guitar sounds the best to you is a combination of scale length and gear setup- a 25" scale PRS isn't optimal for Drop A, same story with the 24.75 on the Gibson. I'm not saying it can't be done, but Drop C tuning is probably better suited to short scale sixers than A.
The only real way to tell would be to have them all in the same tuning.

That said, I play mainly in Drop C# with my PRS but occasionally lower the bottom string to A# to play some Alter Bridge. I've found that the best way to avoid mud is to use thicker strings. I use a .70 for A#. Not everyone will be into that kind of tension but to me a .46 in C and .56 in A would be very floppy (I use a .59 for C#)
The difference between C and A when using strings that aren't thick enough is drastic in my opinion- the lower you tune without adequate tension the worse it gets.

Also, as others have said it's a drastic difference- I wouldn't expect to be able to keep the same amp settings between guitars. You might find that tweaking for each tuning provides the best results.

To sum up- try tweaking your settings according to tuning, and it sounds like some thicker strings might be in order. There's very little tension difference between 25" and 24.75, so you're best off using the same set on both the Soapbar and the Gibson.

On an entirely different note, how do you rate the Pig 90? I was planning on dropping one in an SE Soapbar, funnily enough.

Thanks. I need to try some things you guys mentioned here.

The Pig 90 is brutal! Can't really tell the difference between it and any other regular humbucker I've tried (as far as aggressive output). Warning, it is a bit noisy. (As p90's are anyway) I do have a decimator in front and still can have the notorious shriek-like feedback noise. I don't play clean much so I can't vouch for how it is on cleans. Plus I have a valveking which is on the bottom of the Peavey list so, with my inexperience with any other big amp, I would assume that the cleans are not great right off the bat anyways. (On the amp) But the pig 90 is very aggressive and I'm happy with it for my metal tones!

 

[onionofdoom]

Thanks. I need to try some things you guys mentioned here.

The Pig 90 is brutal! Can't really tell the difference between it and any other regular humbucker I've tried (as far as aggressive output). Warning, it is a bit noisy. (As p90's are anyway) I do have a decimator in front and still can have the notorious shriek-like feedback noise. I don't play clean much so I can't vouch for how it is on cleans. Plus I have a valveking which is on the bottom of the Peavey list so, with my inexperience with any other big amp, I would assume that the cleans are not great right off the bat anyways. (On the amp) But the pig 90 is very aggressive and I'm happy with it for my metal tones!

I wouldn't expect the best clean tones out of a VK matched with a 21.5K P90, so that's probably pretty normal. I'm pretty sure that pickup was designed for dirtier uses! Good to hear that it sounds cool though, I'll have to try one at some point. Like a few of us have said, you should get the best results tweaking your amp between guitars. I'm not sure from what has been said so far; are you actually unhappy with the way your LP and Soapbar sound or is the Custom just the best of the bunch?

 

[guitarfan85]

I wouldn't expect the best clean tones out of a VK matched with a 21.5K P90, so that's probably pretty normal. I'm pretty sure that pickup was designed for dirtier uses! Good to hear that it sounds cool though, I'll have to try one at some point. Like a few of us have said, you should get the best results tweaking your amp between guitars. I'm not sure from what has been said so far; are you actually unhappy with the way your LP and Soapbar sound or is the Custom just the best of the bunch?

The custom just sounds the best. Maybe it's the tuning, or amp settings. I've been playing mostly on the smaller amp which is digital and needless to say the bass know which is turned all the way up on the 6505 setting, doesn't work. So it's possible the B guitars sound too wompy for that reason. I'll have to try all these things out. I appreciate everyone's help

 

[onionofdoom]

The custom just sounds the best. Maybe it's the tuning, or amp settings. I've been playing mostly on the smaller amp which is digital and needless to say the bass know which is turned all the way up on the 6505 setting, doesn't work. So it's possible the B guitars sound too wompy for that reason. I'll have to try all these things out. I appreciate everyone's help

Not to .... on the VK but you'll find that different amps handle low tunings with a varying degree of success, as you've discovered with your smaller amp. I just sold my 6505+ and my only head for now is my JCA22, and while I generally think that it's better for my particular tone, it doesn't handle A# nearly as gracefully as the Peavey. That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing but I've had to clean up my playing as the low string isn't nearly as tight. It's not something I notice in C# however; it's just not low enough to sound muddy. My point is that A is much further from what most amps were designed to deal with than C.

One suggestion: Drop the low string on the custom so that the guitar is tuned AGCFAD and see how it sounds next to the others; it'll give you an idea without having to tweak your setup. You'd probably need a heavier gauge but you wouldn't need to cut the nut for the sake of a five minute experiment.
Another thing to think about would be to get a few Graphtech nuts and cut them according to the gauges you use- they're cheap and once swapped they can be held in place with string tension only (although not recommended for long term use) and would allow you to really do an accurate comparison.

 

[Thanatopsis]

I don't know why, but my drop C guitar sounds the best too. It's an LTD MH-100QMNT w/Duncan Custom in the bridge and 12-56 strings. It's always felt amazing, but didn't sound even remotely close to as good before I put in a new pickup. It's a great, versatile pickup for any type of metal, which is what I care about most. But the cleans are great too.