2 gig rigs!? - 1 small, 1 large? Madness or sensible?

[lewis]

ok so Im dabbling with the Idea of creating 2 whole gig rigs that I can choose between depending on the upcoming show/situation.

I do own a Kemper that I will be keeping for mostly home/recording use and the odd (hopefully) massive show situations so thats not included in what Im talking about.
What I am talking about and planning to build is :

Bigger show/Primary Rig 1 -

Randall Diavlo RD20 Tube amp - Live in amp case
Laney 2x12 (already own)

pedalboard with: -
Pod X3 live for effects with the Randall and channel switching
Line 6 g10 wireless pedal
Keeley compressor (always on subtly)
ISP decimator
Korg Pitchblack
Digitech Whammy DT
Boss GE7
so always use a Cab with it etc.

Pedals powered by T Rex Chameleon


Smaller show/backup rig no.2 -

Laney 2x12 (optional)
small pedalboard only rig: -
Laney Pulse tube pedal
Boss NS2
Line 6 g10 (yes buying 2)
Digitech whammy DT (yes buying 2)
Maxon OD808
Seymour Duncan Power stage 170 pedal
Torpedo CAB
Di Box
Signal splitter.
FS1 to change channel on the Pulse
Pedals powered by 2nd T rex chameleon

So this smaller rig is designed to cover all bases but does not offer effects. Can be used with a cab AND go direct at the same time OR just 1 or the other if I cant use a cab for whatever reason.

Am I mad to longterm plan to have 2 rigs depending on the show?. One using Amp head and Cab with loads of effects and another thats really small, limited to only being a pedalboard but offers no effects but is quick and simple.
Also means doubling up on some purchases (like 2 wireless units for each etc)

Has anyone else designed/created 2 seperate rigs like this to cover all bases?.
Like If Im headlining RANDALL TUBE AMP all the way, If we are opening (out of towners) or middle of the set, use pedal board only setup instead so to not have to wait for tube amp to heat up to optimal sound/temp?

 

[marcwormjim]

You're not crazy: I started working on a small rig the first time I returned from using the big rig/lunar command module. Now, rather than needing to Tetris things into a boot or SUV, I have the option of lugging a single gig bag. I hope companies continue scaling down hardware while maintaining routing flexibility.

 

[lewis]

You're not crazy: I started working on a small rig the first time I returned from using the big rig/lunar command module. Now, rather than needing to Tetris things into a boot or SUV, I have the option of lugging a single gig bag. I hope companies continue scaling down hardware while maintaining routing flexibility.

This is exactly my logic good to know others think the same.
It helps that I love collecting gear but I do genuinely think its a logical decision.

I will offload some gear too to fund it so its not like its just adding more and more gear.
(Pod HD bean, Zakk Wah etc etc)

The thing that makes poweramps seem too pricey though is modern tube amps.
I can get the Randall Diavlo 20watt head. (which looks and sounds amazing) for £371 and the Seymour duncan 170 watt SS pedalboard poweramp looks like its going to be £330. Seems crazy but obviously worth it for sheer convenience.

I think I might go Amp/large setup first. Then start building the 2nd smaller rig. I own half the stuff for the "smaller" rig anyway so wont take long

 

[tupesaku]

I just built a secondary rig...theres a 'new amp/pedalboard day' thread that I just wrote yesterday.

My main rig at the moment is a Line 6 Helix rack and the second one is a Taurus Stomp Head in a pedalboard with some effects. The Taurus will also be my backup amp and will be taken off the board for easier carrying to some gigs. But I plan on using the pedalboard rig for gigs as well!

For now though it's nice to have Helix at home and the pedalboard at our rehearsal place...

I'm pretty happy like this....for now

 

[odibrom]

I just built a secondary rig...theres a 'new amp/pedalboard day' thread that I just wrote yesterday.

My main rig at the moment is a Line 6 Helix rack and the second one is a Taurus Stomp Head in a pedalboard with some effects. The Taurus will also be my backup amp and will be taken off the board for easier carrying to some gigs. But I plan on using the pedalboard rig for gigs as well!

For now though it's nice to have Helix at home and the pedalboard at our rehearsal place...

I'm pretty happy like this....for now

I'm guessing lots of alternative answers for the question I'm about to make, like money or already owned gear, BUT my question is: having a Helix rack for the big stuff, why not having the pedalboard Helix or even the newer light model for the travel friendly package? You could move sounds around easily...

 

[JohnIce]

Downsizing is one thing, but to me the no. 1 thing I appreciate live is consistency and ease of trouble shooting. Having different pedalboards and different amp setups from gig to gig sounds like a logistic and operational nightmare to me. A gig is for losing yourself in the music, not trying to remember what was what on that particular pedal board. Especially not if you are in fact playing a "big" show.

Knowing you from the Kemper thread you seem to be really, really into buying gear so if that makes you happy then go for it. But I don't think any of what you're doing here is convenient or even advisable.

The way I see it, I'd recommend either of these options instead:

a) One massive pedalboard with preamp/cab sims included. Real amp and 2x12 is optional, but the pedal layout is the same regardless.
b) Small bare essentials pedalboard in front, the rest of your pedals racked in the back. This way you're never at the risk of running out of space on tiny stages. Again, amp and cab are optional per gig.
c) Kemper+foot controller. Keep a full set of the cables you need (and spares) at your rehearsal space or in the gig bag/rack so that when the Kemper leaves your home, you ONLY bring the Kemper and leave all the cables where they are. Much easier to plug in/out of your home setup, no risk of forgetting to bring any cable to the gig. 2x12 is still optional.

I personally go with option c), but I'm not looking for the kinds of pedalboards you're talking about regardless. All I know is my load-in/out and setup time is minutes, I can bring my live rig on the bus and it sounds, operates and looks the same every night. If you do 3 gigs a year that might seem a little uninspiring but I did 15 gigs last month, and then consistency and efficiency can save you hours not to mention minimize the risk of forgetting stuff.

 

[tupesaku]

As an answer to odibrom:

I found a really good deal on a used (2 weeks old) rack unit + control when going back and forth on what to buy...and at that moment LT was not out yet.

And for some reason I did actually prefer to have a rack unit anyway...it's nice to have it safe inside the same case with the power amp and have just the control unit on the floor.

But now it's also nice to have a smaller gig bag rig...and now I have the option to choose which rig suits the situation better.

 

[tupesaku]

Downsizing is one thing, but to me the no. 1 thing I appreciate live is consistency and ease of trouble shooting. Having different pedalboards and different amp setups from gig to gig sounds like a logistic and operational nightmare to me. A gig is for losing yourself in the music, not trying to remember what was what on that particular pedal board. Especially not if you are in fact playing a "big" show.

Knowing you from the Kemper thread you seem to be really, really into buying gear so if that makes you happy then go for it. But I don't think any of what you're doing here is convenient or even advisable.

The way I see it, I'd recommend either of these options instead:

a) One massive pedalboard with preamp/cab sims included. Real amp and 2x12 is optional, but the pedal layout is the same regardless.
b) Small bare essentials pedalboard in front, the rest of your pedals racked in the back. This way you're never at the risk of running out of space on tiny stages. Again, amp and cab are optional per gig.
c) Kemper+foot controller. Keep a full set of the cables you need (and spares) at your rehearsal space or in the gig bag/rack so that when the Kemper leaves your home, you ONLY bring the Kemper and leave all the cables where they are. Much easier to plug in/out of your home setup, no risk of forgetting to bring any cable to the gig. 2x12 is still optional.

I personally go with option c), but I'm not looking for the kinds of pedalboards you're talking about regardless. All I know is my load-in/out and setup time is minutes, I can bring my live rig on the bus and it sounds, operates and looks the same every night. If you do 3 gigs a year that might seem a little uninspiring but I did 15 gigs last month, and then consistency and efficiency can save you hours not to mention minimize the risk of forgetting stuff.

Ease of use and concistency is my main thing also...thats why I like both of my rigs now...all I need to do is plug in the power, cab cable and guitar cable. And everything is always in its place no matter what

 

[lewis]

Downsizing is one thing, but to me the no. 1 thing I appreciate live is consistency and ease of trouble shooting. Having different pedalboards and different amp setups from gig to gig sounds like a logistic and operational nightmare to me. A gig is for losing yourself in the music, not trying to remember what was what on that particular pedal board. Especially not if you are in fact playing a "big" show.

Knowing you from the Kemper thread you seem to be really, really into buying gear so if that makes you happy then go for it. But I don't think any of what you're doing here is convenient or even advisable.

The way I see it, I'd recommend either of these options instead:

a) One massive pedalboard with preamp/cab sims included. Real amp and 2x12 is optional, but the pedal layout is the same regardless.
b) Small bare essentials pedalboard in front, the rest of your pedals racked in the back. This way you're never at the risk of running out of space on tiny stages. Again, amp and cab are optional per gig.
c) Kemper+foot controller. Keep a full set of the cables you need (and spares) at your rehearsal space or in the gig bag/rack so that when the Kemper leaves your home, you ONLY bring the Kemper and leave all the cables where they are. Much easier to plug in/out of your home setup, no risk of forgetting to bring any cable to the gig. 2x12 is still optional.

I personally go with option c), but I'm not looking for the kinds of pedalboards you're talking about regardless. All I know is my load-in/out and setup time is minutes, I can bring my live rig on the bus and it sounds, operates and looks the same every night. If you do 3 gigs a year that might seem a little uninspiring but I did 15 gigs last month, and then consistency and efficiency can save you hours not to mention minimize the risk of forgetting stuff.

I do like gear for sure. I did explain in my OP I would be selling off loads to fund this venture too though.

Also I love my Kemper and yes, as you say its plug and play in 35 seconds (or however long it takes to "start up") but I love the thing so much and dont trust doing show night after night with it without it getting stolen, or damaged by some idiot (wouldnt be me but you dont know about others)

I would much rather use it for the odd BIG show/festival when its got to be in and out real quick but mostly at home for recording.
Thats why I then need a primary setup for shows and hey, pedalboard setup B would have ease of use and consistency because it would be going direct to front of house every night and also not need any power amp tubes to "warmup" or anything. Everything would already be setup on the board so would be plug it in to the power, everything turns on in a second, then just connect the XLR from the DI into the stage box, and voilla instant, consistent sound every night, achieved in minutes.

Perhaps under this logic then, and factoring in your good points about me collecting gear, I should do pedalboard B (or smaller rig) first and use that primarily for everything outside of the home (I already own the cab remember so thats no extra expense) and see how I get on with that and IF I need or feel like a main rig upgrade needs to happen and include a proper head, then so be it.

I do miss having a real amp head too though. Its been about 5 years since I had one and used for shows. Maybe longer. Everything since has been digital rack gear going direct never using a cab. I just miss that is all, hence the need for a poweramp. I want real cab feel back.

 

[JohnIce]

I do like gear for sure. I did explain in my OP I would be selling off loads to fund this venture too though.

Also I love my Kemper and yes, as you say its plug and play in 35 seconds (or however long it takes to "start up") but I love the thing so much and dont trust doing show night after night with it without it getting stolen, or damaged by some idiot (wouldnt be me but you dont know about others)

I would much rather use it for the odd BIG show/festival when its got to be in and out real quick but mostly at home for recording.
Thats why I then need a primary setup for shows and hey, pedalboard setup B would have ease of use and consistency because it would be going direct to front of house every night and also not need any power amp tubes to "warmup" or anything. Everything would already be setup on the board so would be plug it in to the power, everything turns on in a second, then just connect the XLR from the DI into the stage box, and voilla instant, consistent sound every night, achieved in minutes.

Perhaps under this logic then, and factoring in your good points about me collecting gear, I should do pedalboard B (or smaller rig) first and use that primarily for everything outside of the home (I already own the cab remember so thats no extra expense) and see how I get on with that and IF I need or feel like a main rig upgrade needs to happen and include a proper head, then so be it.

I do miss having a real amp head too though. Its been about 5 years since I had one and used for shows. Maybe longer. Everything since has been digital rack gear going direct never using a cab. I just miss that is all, hence the need for a poweramp. I want real cab feel back.

I'm not basing any of my arguments on cost, how you finance it is none of my business My point is mainly that live, I want to bring a setup that is like an extension of my brain. I want to know the cables and button layouts in my sleep. Which is kind of the case when you're loading out at 3 a:m crowded by drunk people a lot of the time. If I lose myself in the music and spontaneously feel like doing something offside and weird I want to know exactly the button to push, not look down and see if I brought that pedal or not for this particular gig, or think about which channel would sound better on this setup compared to the other setup for the sound you have in your head. And none of this is taking into account the extra time needed to fine tune, maintain and rehearse multiple rigs.

This is why I feel like separate rigs sounds like a bad idea. Having a different rig for live compared to home use is a different story. But yeah, rehearsals and live shows, regardless of how big the show is, I'd make sure I use the same gear every time. But that's just where I've landed after many years of flipping gear and trying many, many live setups.

 

[odibrom]

As an answer to odibrom:

I found a really good deal on a used (2 weeks old) rack unit + control when going back and forth on what to buy...and at that moment LT was not out yet.

And for some reason I did actually prefer to have a rack unit anyway...it's nice to have it safe inside the same case with the power amp and have just the control unit on the floor.

But now it's also nice to have a smaller gig bag rig...and now I have the option to choose which rig suits the situation better.

Yah, I know the Helix LT is recent. I thought you were building up your pedalboard recently, therefore the suggestion, so the answer is clear, you already had the gear... Well, the suggestion is up for grabs if anyone wants needs it! As far as I am concerned, I've got a rack (tube preamp, FX processor, tube poweramp) and control board at home, but at rehearsals just use whatever is there (rental studios) amp wise, only dry signal... became flexible with the sound I'm after...

 

[lewis]

Yah, I know the Helix LT is recent. I thought you were building up your pedalboard recently, therefore the suggestion, so the answer is clear, you already had the gear... Well, it suggestion is up for grabs if anyone wants needs it! As far as I am concerned, I've got a rack (tube preamp, FX processor, tube poweramp) and control board at home, but at rehearsals just use whatever is there (rental studios) amp wise, only dry signal... became flexible with the sound I'm after...

Ive just seen the LT. Typically I find out about it, 2 weeks after I picked up a used Pod X3live for my pedal board instead.

I still wish Kemper would do a Axe 8 type floorboard version, but still Im happy with the x3live for what I need atm. The LT looks good though.

 

[odibrom]

Ive just seen the LT. Typically I find out about it, 2 weeks after I picked up a used Pod X3live for my pedal board instead.

I still wish Kemper would do a Axe 8 type floorboard version, but still Im happy with the x3live for what I need atm. The LT looks good though.

Lol, bad timing. Sorry to spoil your X3live fun...

 

[cGoEcYk]

I like the idea. I do something like that with my bass rig. I use Mesa Powerhouse cabs and have 2x 4x10 and a neo 1x12. I use the same head with either cabinet config and I would say my 1x12 has seen 90% of the action in the past few years. It surprisingly gets loud enough for jam and stage in non-br00t genres. I love my full stack but it's a beast to move so I tend to reserve it for truly br00tal situations and home practice.

 

[lewis]

I like the idea. I do something like that with my bass rig. I use Mesa Powerhouse cabs and have 2x 4x10 and a neo 1x12. I use the same head with either cabinet config and I would say my 1x12 has seen 90% of the action in the past few years. It surprisingly gets loud enough for jam and stage in non-br00t genres. I love my full stack but it's a beast to move so I tend to reserve it for truly br00tal situations and home practice.

this is great and yeah is fundamentally what Im thinking.
Cor full bass stacks are killer though. You can never have too much low end hahah

 

[PBGas]

I have two setups. One for the larger venue and one for the smaller.

 

[Shoeless_jose]

Do whatever you want, but your reasoning of so you don't have to wait for your tubes to warm up is junk and that has been debunked all over the place. But like I said do what makes you happy just don't make up a silly reason for doing it.

 

[lewis]

Do whatever you want, but your reasoning of so you don't have to wait for your tubes to warm up is junk and that has been debunked all over the place. But like I said do what makes you happy just don't make up a silly reason for doing it.

i have owned and gigged with tube amps and know it to not be rubbish though ?
My Ironheart 120 watt used to sound pretty thin/sterile ish for the first 15minutes of a set live, then you could obviously hear the difference after that when the tubes were upto optimal temperature and it sounded way better.
Using it for a 20 min set for example just didnt seem worth it.

 

[lewis]

I have two setups. One for the larger venue and one for the smaller.

nice!
Im defo going to do this now then having seem plenty of similar setups from people on here. Glad Im not alone haha.

I will sort out pedalboard rig first I think like I said earlier and do the direct and to cab route at the same time

 

[TedEH]

i have owned and gigged with tube amps and know it to not be rubbish though ?
My Ironheart 120 watt used to sound pretty thin/sterile ish for the first 15minutes of a set live

The amps I have now usually sound "at their best" when they've warmed up for maybe 10-20 minutes, but given that changeovers/setup is usually about the same amount of time, it's a non-issue as long as the head is put on standby as one of the first things you do.

Realistically though, it's one of those tiny differences in tone that zero people in the audience will notice.

IMO, I'd much prefer to just have one solid consistent rig that I can depend on. I sooooooort of have multiple setups right now because being in multiple bands means different requirements for each one, but it's less about whole replacement rigs and more just that certain parts get scaled up/down depending on the gig, and deciding if the pedalboard needs to come at all. Mostly just bigger room = bigger cab, and sometimes taking a lunchbox sized amp head if I'm too lazy to carry the bigger one, but it's otherwise 90% the same. To be fair though, I have a really simple sound: guitar (or bass) -> amp -> cab -> done. Sometimes a delay+chorus in the loop, but only for one band.