mhickman2
The Abiding Dude
I was being funny. How about I say, "Nolly says add me to waiting list else!" ha ha. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to send your suggestion right now. Thanks man.
2011 BlackMachine News?
- Thread starter DesertBurst
- Start date
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I was being funny. How about I say, "Nolly says add me to waiting list else!" ha ha. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to send your suggestion right now. Thanks man.
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Ben.Last
Formerly Lern2Swim
wannabguitarist
Contributor
I feel for ya man, i've also been trying to contact him for years. I'll have to try and hop on one of those specials also!
paintkilz
Banned
well my statement was a little assinine(sp?)
he still specs them amazingly. ill never afford one either way.
he still specs them amazingly. ill never afford one either way.
Trev
Well-Known Member
All I can say is that If after being on his list since January of 2009 I don't get the oppurtunity to get a guitar hand built by Doug, I will be extremely disappointed in him.
Vletrmx
ζ
I'm sorry but I have to ask: In the almost 2 years you've waited, have you not considered going with another luthier who could reproduce one of these guitars? The design seems fairly simple, and I'm sure there are luthiers out there who could do a very good job.
This isn't a dig at you or anyone else for waiting, it's just that I'm curious. I hope you finally get your guitar hand-built by Doug.
FLGearnut
Well-Known Member
seems to me the desire to own "unobtainium" is greater than the desire for the actual instrument itself.
There is always a wow factor when you have something just about nobody else has for the most part.
There is always a wow factor when you have something just about nobody else has for the most part.
LEWY7777777
Well-Known Member
Wow, you all came to conclusions that I did not.
When I read the original post, it sounded like to me he is going to hire some people and expand his operation. He did not say it would be the last handmade Blackmachines, just the last ones handmade by him.
When I read the original post, it sounded like to me he is going to hire some people and expand his operation. He did not say it would be the last handmade Blackmachines, just the last ones handmade by him.
Andromalia
Pardon my french
CNC is a non-issue. PRSes are CNCed and everyone drools about the finishes and craftsmanship. It's all in QC and knowing how to use the tools. Seeing as how much a CNC machine costs, it is likely there will be more output than now anyway.
darren
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I agree that CNC is a bit of a dead horse. Do you think the "handmade" guitars are being carved with hand saws and chisels?
Any luthier who's "hand-making" guitars is likely using routers and templates in addition to many hand tools. Some (like me) are using templates that were cut with (*GASP!*) a CNC machine or a laser. Machines have certain attributes that makes them extremely good for things like guitar production:
* accuracy
* consistency
* speed
Accuracy: Parts are milled to an extremely fine set of tolerances. You want things like your frets, nut and bridge to be as accurate as possible, also any parts that mate up like neck heels and the pockets they go into. CNC excels at cutting things accurately.
Consistency: When building guitars in a full production situation or even in small runs or individual instruments built at a slower pace, the builder can be sure that necks and bodies built cut at different times will come out more or less exactly the same, meaning parts and components can be stockpiled, allowing for greater efficiency. Spare parts can also be swapped out if there are warranty issues.
Speed: Bodies and necks can be roughed out in much less time, and can be done while the builder works on other things. Less time doing time-consuming and routine work like cutting out necks and bodies and routing cavities in multiple operations, means the luthier can spend more time on the things that are better done by hand, like final neck profiling and fretwork... things that require that human touch. This allows instruments to be turned around with excellent quality in less time.
When people get unsatisfactory instruments made using CNC machines, it's not because of the machines... it's because they likely cut corners on the human component... the neck, the final sanding, the fretwork, the setup, and final quality controls.
CNC machines present tremendous opportunities for the small builder to increase production speed while not sacrificing quality.
Any luthier who's "hand-making" guitars is likely using routers and templates in addition to many hand tools. Some (like me) are using templates that were cut with (*GASP!*) a CNC machine or a laser. Machines have certain attributes that makes them extremely good for things like guitar production:
* accuracy
* consistency
* speed
Accuracy: Parts are milled to an extremely fine set of tolerances. You want things like your frets, nut and bridge to be as accurate as possible, also any parts that mate up like neck heels and the pockets they go into. CNC excels at cutting things accurately.
Consistency: When building guitars in a full production situation or even in small runs or individual instruments built at a slower pace, the builder can be sure that necks and bodies built cut at different times will come out more or less exactly the same, meaning parts and components can be stockpiled, allowing for greater efficiency. Spare parts can also be swapped out if there are warranty issues.
Speed: Bodies and necks can be roughed out in much less time, and can be done while the builder works on other things. Less time doing time-consuming and routine work like cutting out necks and bodies and routing cavities in multiple operations, means the luthier can spend more time on the things that are better done by hand, like final neck profiling and fretwork... things that require that human touch. This allows instruments to be turned around with excellent quality in less time.
When people get unsatisfactory instruments made using CNC machines, it's not because of the machines... it's because they likely cut corners on the human component... the neck, the final sanding, the fretwork, the setup, and final quality controls.
CNC machines present tremendous opportunities for the small builder to increase production speed while not sacrificing quality.
And with a larger supply and faster building times, the prices should drop as well. Right?
/crosses fingers
OrsusMetal
In brightest day...
Probably not. He will now have to be able to afford upkeep on the CNC, if it is his. Just because he can pump them out quicker doesn't mean he has to change his pricing. There is a possibility that he will raise his prices now since he will possibly be pumping out more guitars.
More guitars = more CNC wear and tear. So if he isn't making enough profit off of these guitars to live and maintain the CNC, there might be a price increase.
Hmm, I didn't know there was a current 'list'. I thought he closed the books a year or two ago and that there was a list of people at that time which were in line for custom orders. Are they not the 6 or so people Nolly mentioned? (one of which is me, my B7 is nearly done - I thought I was either the last or second last order (not sure though)). As far as I was aware that was it, no more orders and no more lists until the backlog is cleared. Has there been another list of some sort opened since the 'custom' list/orders closed up?
I read the message as two things....on one hand maybe some help (machines or people) in the interest of speed, and on the other the 'private stock' offerings. All good, interesting stuff...looking forward to seeing what emerges.
Q.
I read the message as two things....on one hand maybe some help (machines or people) in the interest of speed, and on the other the 'private stock' offerings. All good, interesting stuff...looking forward to seeing what emerges.
Q.
I honestly want a Blackmachine merely for the prestige. They do look cool, but I'm pretty sure I'd be the only guys in the state to own one.
Freestyler8
Well-Known Member
I sincerley hope there are several *almost* complete guitars. If you ask me, with the waiting list we are led to believe Doug has, this just is NOT acceptable. Especially when several people have paid deposits, and it now looks like many people on this list are potentially not even getting a guitar built.
As much appeal as BM's have I've just heard too many bad things about they way Doug runs his business to ever consider getting one new (even if I could afford it
). On the other hand, this doesn't stop me wanting one!The demand is still there and I'm sure he is raking it in so fair play I guess.
darren
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This.
It costs money to buy and run a CNC, or to outsource production to a dedicated CNC shop so you don't have that overhead. The thing with a CNC is that once you've bought it, you really need to keep feeding it so it pays for itself, especially if you have a full-time programmer/technician on staff.
I wouldn't expect Doug to drop his prices, because i'd want him to be more profitable so he can stay in business and continue to grow.
Ok guys, let'd drop the CNC discussion since there is no evidence Doug is even going to start using them. It was an assumption that's basically lead to a ton of posts over nothing
The waiting list we're referring to is actually a bit of a misnomer. Via his site Doug asked people who wanted to express an interest in a guitar to email. These people haven't paid any deposits.
Re your guitar, I believe yours is being built alongside mine. Since I was the first on the waiting list we signed up to, I think you must have been second.
