Any solution to double stop bending on floyd rose

[Rykilla]

I guess it is a pretty common side effect when we do double stop bending on floyd rose, because once we bend the string, the floyd rose will be tipped forward, rendering all the other strings flat. Is there any solution to that? How do you guys handle this side effect?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

A Hipshot Tremsetter, ESP Arming Adjuster, any "dive only" product like Tremol-No or Backstop, as well as any ZPS equipped Ibanez can be set to aid in double stop bends, but the trade off is going to be limiting the movement of the bridge overall, by either rendering it "dive only" (no pull-up on the bar) or adding tension to the system so it can't move as easily.

 

[Rykilla]

A Hipshot Tremsetter, ESP Arming Adjuster, any "dive only" product like Tremol-No or Backstop, as well as any ZPS equipped Ibanez can be set to aid in double stop bends, but the trade off is going to be limiting the movement of the bridge overall, by either rendering it "dive only" (no pull-up on the bar) or adding tension to the system so it can't move as easily.

I am thinking of having 5 springs at the back, as I have observed in some of the high-end floyd rose guitar, such as PRS Custom 24 Floyd Rose. I guess that will lead to the "adding tension to the system" you mentioned. Do you think it may work?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I am thinking of having 5 springs at the back, as I have observed in some of the high-end floyd rose guitar, such as PRS Custom 24 Floyd Rose. I guess that will lead to the "adding tension to the system" you mentioned. Do you think it may work?

The issue with just adding springs is that you'll need to install something that butts up to the trem's sustain block so that it can remain properly level, which will give you a dive only setup.

Like this:

As you know, a fully floating trem (one that can both dive and pull) needs to be set level. When you just increase spring tension (backside tension), you need to compensate to remain balanced. Since adding that much string tension (frontside tension) isn't possible you need to put the block in the way.

 

[USMarine75]

https://sophiatremolos.com/collections/sophia-2-22-complete-series

Problem solved? Enjoy!

 

[Edika]

The easiest way is to bend the other string slightly too.

 

[Rykilla]

Thank you all for the inputs! I will definitely give it a shot for all the suggestions.

Last quick question: while I was waiting for you guys' response, I actually googled it a little bit. It seems that this double stop bending problem not only occurs in Floyd Rose, but also in most of the floating tremolo system. Is PRS tremolo considered floating? If yes, then this double stop bending problem can also occur on PRS tremolo?

Also, I recalled when I was doing double stop bends on my MIJ Fender Strat, I could barely notice that the upper string went flat. If I am not wrong, Fender tremolo is somewhat similar to PRS tremolo, right?

 

[USMarine75]

Thank you all for the inputs! I will definitely give it a shot for all the suggestions.

Last quick question: while I was waiting for you guys' response, I actually googled it a little bit. It seems that this double stop bending problem not only occurs in Floyd Rose, but also in most of the floating tremolo system. Is PRS tremolo considered floating? If yes, then this double stop bending problem can also occur on PRS tremolo?

Also, I recalled when I was doing double stop bends on my MIJ Fender Strat, I could barely notice that the upper string went flat. If I am not wrong, Fender tremolo is somewhat similar to PRS tremolo, right?

If your trem is dive only (like EVH or PRS and Fender that are set to dive only) they usually have 4 or even 5 strings which will prevent trem dive with string bends and vibrato. Otherwise, all floating trems will experience this to some degree, depending on nature of the bend (# of strings and how many steps).

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Thank you all for the inputs! I will definitely give it a shot for all the suggestions.

Last quick question: while I was waiting for you guys' response, I actually googled it a little bit. It seems that this double stop bending problem not only occurs in Floyd Rose, but also in most of the floating tremolo system. Is PRS tremolo considered floating? If yes, then this double stop bending problem can also occur on PRS tremolo?

Also, I recalled when I was doing double stop bends on my MIJ Fender Strat, I could barely notice that the upper string went flat. If I am not wrong, Fender tremolo is somewhat similar to PRS tremolo, right?

Any trem that dives (lowers the pitch) is susceptible to being brought out of pitch by bending the strings, which is analogous to adding string tension, which as we all know pulls trems forward.

Trems that don't pull up, or raise the pitch, rest on the top of the guitar. Because you don't have to worry about balancing the tension, just providing at least enough to keep the bridge grounded to the top, it's common to add much more spring tension, which counteracts the pull from bends.

 

[trem licking]

You can adjust your technique to compensate too... By applying pressure with the side of your hand to the bridge slightly as you bend. Practice for this would be do the double stop bend while applying this technique, and only play the non bent string. This will give you a gauge as to how much pressure to apply. Only takes a small bit of practice to nail it.
I just dont worry about it, personally. Still sounds in tune enough without doing anything about it (shrug)

 

[Lorcan Ward]

When you do a double stop bend hold the whammy bar with your hand so the bridge can't move.

or

Use the whammy bar to pull up to keep the other string going flat, this requires a lot of experience knowing how far to bend the string when the whammy is pulling too.

 

[Rykilla]

This is a concluding thread about my problem, so that in the future if people google this thread, they will know exactly what I have found out.

My original problem (not posted here) was to decide whether I should choose a floyd rose or a PRS bridge. As I "research" on the Internet, it seems that some people are having double stop bending problem with their floyd rose. That worries me. Today, as I drove down to a guitar store and actually tried the floyd rose guitar myself (shamefully, I did not have experience of that until today), I finally managed to solve all of my problems.

I tried 2 guitars available there: one is PRS Custom 24 SE with PRS bridge, and another is Jackson Pro Soloist SL2H with a floyd rose (not original I believe, but can be considered close). So, the problem of double stop bending did occur on both bridges, even though it was more noticeable on the floyd rose than on the PRS bridge. As I bent the string and fret another one, I did notice that the fretted string went flat on the floyd rose. On the other hand, I needed to pay additional attention to hear the flat sound on the PRS bridge.

HOWEVER, this problem of double stop bending is very easy to solve. Let us focus on the floyd rose, as it is more "severe". When I play the guitar, I always rest my palm on the sixth string (for cleaner play, and will lift it up slightly if I need to play the sixth string), and I notice that I put my palm right on the pivot of the floyd rose. As many of you may have already known, the floyd rose is pivoted on two bolts such that we can do diving and pulling up. If we rest our palm right on the pivots, we will not disrupt the balance of the bridge. Image sitting in the center of a seesaw, where the seesaw is supported. We are not going to make the seesaw tip to any direction in a perfect world (in guitar bridges, perfect world means perfect setting). Then, as I bend the string, the bridge will be slightly (really slightly) pulled towards the string, making the strings flat (still, very slightly). Now, all I need to do is to rest my wrist on the bridge to balance the slight tipping. In fact, what I mean by "resting my wrist" is basically letting my wrist touch the bridge, and that will balance the tipping, making the string go back to normal tension. With a little bit adapting and practice, it will be very simple. Similar method can be used on the PRS bridge (or the Fender tremolo).

An additional piece of information is that the floyd rose in the Jackson only has 3 springs. I believe that some floyd rose will have 5 springs at the back (PRS Custom 24 Floyd Rose), making the problem even minor. Moreover, while it seems that, based on the tech person in the store, PRS bridge tends to have a little bit more sustain than floyd rose, this difference in sustain is really hard to notice. He mentioned that people used machine to kind of find out the difference, and even then the experiment may not be the most unbiased in terms of science. He admitted that he could not tell the difference, and I personally do not have professional ears, either. The truth is that many people do not as well, and the difference is not important at all. Think of some of the best music made by players using floyd rose guitar, such as Steve Vai and Joe Satriani. At the end, I am going to choose a floyd rose guitar, because the two previously mentioned guitarists are some of my favorite. Considering that maybe one day I would like to play their songs, I believe having a floyd rose is a better choice for me.

So yeah, this is a lengthy yet, I believe, responsible and honest response I can possibly make. Thank you for all the people helping me here. Kudo to all of you.

 

[Rykilla]

Well, Steve Vai and Joe Satriani are using Ibanez, so technically they are not using floyd rose, but I guess the design of Ibanez locking tremolo is pretty close to that of floyd rose, at least when this type of problem is concerned.

Additionally, when I thought about my method of solving double stop bending problem, I realize if I bend the sixth string, the method may not work, because I will lift my palm, and thus my wrist will rest on the guitar body instead of the bridge. However, I do not think I use double stop bending technique on the sixth string, at least not throughout my journey of playing guitars. If somehow we need to do this on sixth string, I think then bending the fretted string slightly to adjust the flat sound is sufficient. Still, I can hardly think of any situation and songs I need to do double stop bending on sixth string. Do you guys ever bend the sixth string while simultaneously fretting other strings?

 

[laxu]

The Super-V Maglok works well for this purpose. It's essentially a little tube with a pair of magnets in it that helps the guitar stay in tune for double stops. I put one in my G&L Legacy and it does work. My only complaint is that it is ridiculously expensive for what it is, got mine on sale thankfully.

 

[Humbuck]

I have a Mag Lok in 2 guitars. It functioned great in both for a while but had since failed in one when the magnet came loose.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

The Mag Lok is basically a Hipshot Tremsetter with magnets instead of springs...and a much less cumbersome install.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Do you "feel" the detent in the Mag Lok when the magnets engage?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Do you "feel" the detent in the Mag Lok when the magnets engage?

Yes, but it's very mild. If you weren't looking for it you'd probably assume it was just the trem slidding into zero on the studs.

 

[USMarine75]

Not to be a jerk... but maybe buy a hardtail or dive-only trem guitar? Do you have the need to bend a string while fretting another, and then also using up-trem in the same song? Again, not being a jerk... but there is a reason why those guitars exist. EVH is a prolific trem wanker and there is a reason he uses dive-only trem guitars 99% of the time, but then also owns a Steinberger trans-trem for songs like Summer Nights and Fire in the Hole.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Yes, but it's very mild. If you weren't looking for it you'd probably assume it was just the trem slidding into zero on the studs.

Interesting. The extreme "feel" is why I didn't like the tremsetter, I might give this a try on a future build.