Are tube amps the new vinyl?

[budda]

RIP Kazaa

 

[Kosthrash]

I wish someone make available a floor modeler (like Kemper stage or fm9) with integrated power amp (you know, d-class) of let's say at least 2x100w @ 16Ohms to be able to drive directly any 2 guitar cabs simultaneously... Oh yeah, that'll be extremely convenient!

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I wish someone make available a floor modeler (like Kemper stage or fm9) with integrated power amp (you know, d-class) of let's say at least 2x100w @ 16Ohms to be able to drive directly any 2 guitar cabs simultaneously... Oh yeah, that'll be extremely convenient!

The HK Black Spirit 200 gets you pretty close.

 

[OneTwoThrill]

Want them big, heavy, expensive and hot !

 

[Crungy]

The HK Black Spirit 200 gets you pretty close.

Want them big, heavy, expensive and hot !

Throw a Kemper on one of these and call it a day

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Want them big, heavy, expensive and hot !

Don't we all.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

IME, in most industries there’s room for two competing technologies; one that’s considered the best and another that’s good enough.

In audio that was vinyl vs 8 track/cassette/CD/MP3/Streaming. Vinyl was the best, but 8 tracks could be played in a car, cassettes were smaller and held more music, but your car ate them, CDs wouldn’t be eaten, but they could skip and get scratched, MP3s didn’t skip, and they were cheap because you could steal them on Napster, and streaming is stealing for lazy people who’d rather pay someone else to steal the music for them.

In amps, its tube vs transistor/MOSFET/digital modelling.

Modelling never managed to kill off tube because it isn’t the best, but for many people it is good enough. It’s also generally cheaper (especially for the consumer grade modelling).

Modelling did manage to kill off all those shitty solid state Crate amps and Marshall AVTs. Pretty much every budget amp these days is modelling because it’s cheap to implement and sounds good enough for the average consumer.

People say guitarists are traditionalists who won’t give up their tube amps because they’re traditionalists, but IMO it’s because no one has made anything that does it better. IMO, the second someone makes something that actually does it better, none of us will be traditionalists for very long.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

Soon only old guys and hipsters will be using them. They have a cool factor, I will admit.

Nah, Boomers be getting modellers because they’re getting too old to haul tube amps.

 

[kmanick]

Nah, Boomers be getting modellers because they’re getting too old to haul tube amps.

I gig quite a bit on a classic rock/Tribute circuit. Most of these musicians are over 40. Not a modeler to be found, the old guys love their tubes.
I just see a lot more 2X12 cabs these days than 4X12's
Even the younger guys I see doing grunge 90's /2000's tributes are all still using tube amps.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

I gig quite a bit on a classic rock/Tribute circuit. Most of these musicians are over 40. Not a modeler to be found, the old guys love their tubes.
I just see a lot more 2X12 cabs these days than 4X12's
Even the younger guys I see doing grunge 90's /2000's tributes are all still using tube amps.

Over 40s are GenX and Millennials. Boomers are 60+. It’s the Boomers I see giving in and converting to modelling due to weight.

The rest of your statement checks out. I’m 46 and I still haul an SVT and 810. I’m also the youngest in my band and the other two carry a Marshall 2555 + 4x12 and Mesa Triple Crown + 2x12.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

In amps, its tube vs transistor/MOSFET/digital modelling.

I realize this is maybe not a majority outlook, but I see tube and transistor/MOSFET in a similar category opposed to digital. There was more of a distinction between tube and SS before digital became popular. I use both, and there are differences between them to be sure, but the similarities between them constitute the qualities that make me prefer them to digital modeling.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

I realize this is maybe not a majority outlook, but I see tube and transistor/MOSFET in a similar category opposed to digital. There was more of a distinction between tube and SS before digital became popular. I use both, and there are differences between them to be sure, but the similarities between them constitute the qualities that make me prefer them to digital modeling.

I agree. I was mostly trying to convey that there was an evolution in transistor technology and how new tech replaced previous tech while tube stayed constant throughout. Probably should've said something like germanium, silicone, MOSFET and Class D or something like that.

 

[4Eyes]

not into vinyl, but I'm thinking about getting tube half stack for my 40 b-day next year, I don't gig, don't need it, but I'm getting to a point in my life, when I can provide for my family and comfortably save up for it.. partially middle age crisis nostalgia, never had one, always dreamed about it, partially cool factor, partially to be computer/update/firmware free, partially because I can't justify that kind of money for device which will become obsolete in couple of years when newer, shinier and truer version of the modeller will become the NEW THING. Look at analogue synths - tube amps aren't going anywhere.

...maybe I'll change my mind, but then I'll have to find another hole where to dump my middle age crisis money

 

[spawnofthesith]

Tube amps would've had to have gone away or become a minority compared to modelling for that to be the case, so no, not at all.


In professional contexts (stage and studio) tube amps are still vastly in the majority, and its not particularly close either. And let's face it, plenty of people are still filling madison square basement with tube half stacks as well

This isn't a dig against modelling or saying its bad at all either, just a reality.

Now, modellers do have a pretty strong presence in some particular niche styles of music, that most people on this forum are very much into. And if you are into these niche SSO genres of music that might skew your perception of the prevalence of modelling quite dramatically....

 

[budda]

Re: prevalence of x type live, how about we ask people that run sound for shows instead of guess? Just an idea.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Re: prevalence of x type live, how about we ask people that run sound for shows instead of guess? Just an idea.

Yep

I'm not guessing

 

[GunpointMetal]

Re: prevalence of x type live, how about we ask people that run sound for shows instead of guess? Just an idea.

I have several friends in the live sound industry. According to them there’s more modeling on bigger/expensive shows because everyone is running some sort of click/iem/synced production and digital is much more consistent and available for redundancy and routing options. They might have live cabs on stage. Doing sound in small clubs most local bands are using amps or amps augmented with like HX Stomps and shit.
Edit: this is supposedly pretty much the same across all genres from hired-out pop backing bands to death metal.

 

[op1e]

I've always run a hybrid setup. Tubes for my benefit and digital direct for the club. I've done way too many shows where the sound guy told me "sorry, the monitors on this side of the stage aren't working tonight." Or the time I played an Akron club where they just redid the stage and live sound and were still working out the bugs with everything feeding back. Put the crappiest mic I've ever seen a foot off my cab and made me turn down to mouse fart levels cause of the feedback. Couldn't hear my own rig right in front of it. All I could hear was the tiny garbage wedge in front of me that sounded like a blown out Kraco 6x9 from the 70's. Or a full on Metal Zone straight into the board. That's why they don't get to mic me anymore and get an XLR to their DI box instead. Then I control my stage volume without worry of their levels changing.

But ya. Unless I'm playing a long set not lugging my Mesa OS around anymore. My 2x12, Helix and Origin 20 for stage sound, or the Power Station. I've gone back and forth between 4cm and just using amps for power. The added noise and effort from my 800 clone vs just using Helix models into isn't worth it. Ya, racks aren't the greatest to haul around either. But you throw it on top of a cab, hook up speaker cable cat5 and power and go.

 

[GunpointMetal]

I've done way too many shows where the sound guy told me "sorry, the monitors on this side of the stage aren't working tonight." Or the time I played an Akron club where they just redid the stage and live sound and were still working out the bugs with everything feeding back. Put the crappiest mic I've ever seen a foot off my cab and made me turn down to mouse fart levels cause of the feedback. Couldn't hear my own rig right in front of it. All I could hear was the tiny garbage wedge in front of me that sounded like a blown out Kraco 6x9 from the 70's. Or a full on Metal Zone straight into the board. That's why they don't get to mic me anymore and get an XLR to their DI box instead. Then I control my stage volume without worry of their levels changing.

This shit is why I talked my bandmates into IEMs like a decade ago. Sick of dealing with garbage PAs/monitors/rooms/soundguys and struggling to hear anything whether it was because we kept turning up to hear ourselves with no monitors, being forced to turn down because the sound guy is dipshit, or the worst of both worlds - being asked to turn down for the room and then not getting anything from the monitors because the sound guy is a dipshit. Get some funny looks sometimes loading our mini-fridge rack into basements and dive bars sometimes from the other bands, but nobody ever has anything negative to say after the show unless they're gear-jealous. That and it's great reduced our load on/off times because there's one point of connection for us, one for FOH if applicable, and no wasted time line checking and doing the old point up/point down dance with the sound guy.

 

[shreddermcgavin]

Maybe they are like vinyl in the feel aspect, the vibe if you will. If you like the FEEL of tube amps especially you’re screwed if you wanna switch to a modeler, it’s just not there imo. I also have yet to hear a modeler cut as well as a tube amp in a live setting, especially on a local/smaller touring act level. I don’t know how many bands I’ve seen where the guitarists are going nuts on the fretboard and it’s all for nothing because you can’t hear them. I get the convenience but damn it sucks going to see a band you dig and the riffs are nowhere to be heard.

I think I decided that if The Black Dahlia Murder still uses tube amps, then my band is too lol. The most consistently great sounding band live imo. 5150s just don’t miss in a live metal setting.