Are tube amps the new vinyl?

[Jon Pearson]

I got the chance to crank up a couple of my amps today, loud enough to where it hurt a bit. 99% of my playing is through Helix Native or Axe FX III through headphones. Today I was reminded just how much I am missing by always playing through a quiet digital solution.

It actually drives home the point of the thread - I think tubes are a lot like vinyl for me personally in that I vastly prefer vinyl but I spend the majority of my time listening to mp3s.

 

[budda]

I got the chance to crank up a couple of my amps today, loud enough to where it hurt a bit. 99% of my playing is through Helix Native or Axe FX III through headphones. Today I was reminded just how much I am missing by always playing through a quiet digital solution.

It actually drives home the point of the thread - I think tubes are a lot like vinyl for me personally in that I vastly prefer vinyl but I spend the majority of my time listening to mp3s.

Next try the axe3 loud

 

[budda]

Maybe they are like vinyl in the feel aspect, the vibe if you will. If you like the FEEL of tube amps especially you’re screwed if you wanna switch to a modeler, it’s just not there imo. I also have yet to hear a modeler cut as well as a tube amp in a live setting, especially on a local/smaller touring act level. I don’t know how many bands I’ve seen where the guitarists are going nuts on the fretboard and it’s all for nothing because you can’t hear them. I get the convenience but damn it sucks going to see a band you dig and the riffs are nowhere to be heard.

My solos werent heard when i had the only tube amp at the gig. I was also in high school and still pretty green at the concept of tone, a band mix and playing live. My dad said it after multiple shows though..

It’s not usually the gear that’s the problem .

 

[Jon Pearson]

Next try the axe3 loud

That used to be the gigging rig man! I occasionally get to dial it up through my studio monitors. It's a great sound, I love the Axe dearly. It doesn't do the thing though. I don't know what the thing is, I'm not ever sure the thing is preferable all the time, but it's a thing.

 

[budda]

That used to be the gigging rig man! I occasionally get to dial it up through my studio monitors. It's a great sound, I love the Axe dearly. It doesn't do the thing though. I don't know what the thing is, I'm not ever sure the thing is preferable all the time, but it's a thing.

The thing is through the cab loudly hehe.

 

[Jon Pearson]

The thing is through the cab loudly hehe.

That's part of it. When I was still gigging the Axe, I ran it into a cab, LOUDLY. It was very good, in most ways it was better than the "real" deal. But it's like a home-cooked meal vs. a 4 star restaurant dinner. Maybe the mashed potatoes are a bit lumpy, maybe there's a bit of gristle on the steak, but it just hits different.

 

[budda]

That's part of it. When I was still gigging the Axe, I ran it into a cab, LOUDLY. It was very good, in most ways it was better than the "real" deal. But it's like a home-cooked meal vs. a 4 star restaurant dinner. Maybe the mashed potatoes are a bit lumpy, maybe there's a bit of gristle on the steak, but it just hits different.

Fair enough. Tried the new beta?

 

[Shask]

That used to be the gigging rig man! I occasionally get to dial it up through my studio monitors. It's a great sound, I love the Axe dearly. It doesn't do the thing though. I don't know what the thing is, I'm not ever sure the thing is preferable all the time, but it's a thing.

That is how I am. I love my Fractal stuff. It sounds great. However, there is some sort of dynamic punchy connection that happens with the tube amps where the Fractal stuff just doesn't quite hit there.

 

[Jon Pearson]

Fair enough. Tried the new beta?

Haven't had a moment to, but I'm excited to give it a go. I have hard time imagining it getting much better, but they always seem to do it!

 

[SalsaWood]

75% of the heavier or technical bands around here use tube or solid state heads. About half the folks I've seen use modeling sound good, with the other half sounding about as musical as a dial up modem. That's not the real problem I have with modern things, however.

What matters to me is that the show must go on, that is not optional. Have a plan, have more than one. Never put yourself in a position where you must trust the sound guy. Never put yourself in a position where consolidating your gear leaves you out of options. Hoping for good luck or favor is not a plan. If you ever need to duck out of a show because of gear or sound issues you're not going to be invited back, for good reason. Fuck people like that, you get zero sympathy from me. Bring what you need to play, whatever it is, and bring another one whatever it is. If all your gear breaks use what is offered to you. Be an asset not a liability to the show.

Frankly the list of sound guys I trust I can count on one hand, most of the time we would just tell him to do what he wants for the drums and then fuck off back to his troll stool. You need to show up ready to put on a show no matter what, have your act together, and don't break anything. Do that and IDGAF if you dump a chainsaw in a trashcan and beat it with dildos for an hour straight.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Maybe they are like vinyl in the feel aspect, the vibe if you will. If you like the FEEL of tube amps especially you’re screwed if you wanna switch to a modeler, it’s just not there imo. I also have yet to hear a modeler cut as well as a tube amp in a live setting, especially on a local/smaller touring act level. I don’t know how many bands I’ve seen where the guitarists are going nuts on the fretboard and it’s all for nothing because you can’t hear them. I get the convenience but damn it sucks going to see a band you dig and the riffs are nowhere to be heard.

I think I decided that if The Black Dahlia Murder still uses tube amps, then my band is too lol. The most consistently great sounding band live imo. 5150s just don’t miss in a live metal setting.

User error. I've heard just as many lost, mushy guitar tones out of tube stacks as I have DI modeler solutions.

What matters to me is that the show must go on, that is not optional. Have a plan, have more than one. Never put yourself in a position where you must trust the sound guy. Never put yourself in a position where consolidating your gear leaves you out of options. Hoping for good luck or favor is not a plan. If you ever need to duck out of a show because of gear or sound issues you're not going to be invited back, for good reason. Fuck people like that, you get zero sympathy from me. Bring what you need to play, whatever it is, and bring another one whatever it is. If all your gear breaks use what is offered to you. Be an asset not a liability to the show.

I'm not bringing $6k in gear to a $5 show in a basement. That's just stupid. And straight up, I'd rather cancel than give someone a shit performance because I gotta play through Dirty Bobby's busted as Rogue combo amp.

 

[TedEH]

I'm not bringing $6k in gear to a $5 show in a basement.

I don't see what price has to do with it. My 4x12 cost me $200, and you can get a tube head used for maybe $500. And that's in CAD, so we're talking the cost of a cheeseburger in Freedom Bucks.

My "good" tube amp cost me $1100 CAD (although it's gone up in value since then, I could probably sell it for almost 2k now). My FM3+PS200 setup were about $1500. In a "show must go on" basement show scenario, I'm probably taking the tube amp because it can take the beating, and it'll still work without PA support.

 

[SalsaWood]

I'd rather cancel than give someone a shit performance because I gotta play through Dirty Bobby's busted as Rogue combo amp.

Doesn't matter what you bring, and frankly if you need 6k$ in gear to sound worth a shit you've got some serious skill disadvantage problems compared to hoards of other musicians. I doubt that is the actual case.

If your name is on the bill and you don't fill it that's a shit heel move, bro. Don't be that guy, don't make excuses for being a priss. There are certainly non-confrontational and reasonably noble ways to handle adherence to your personal preferences, taking your toys and going home isn't it.

 

[GunpointMetal]

I don't see what price has to do with it. My 4x12 cost me $200, and you can get a tube head used for maybe $500. And that's in CAD, so we're talking the cost of a cheeseburger in Freedom Bucks.

My "good" tube amp cost me $1100 CAD (although it's gone up in value since then, I could probably sell it for almost 2k now). My FM3+PS200 setup were about $1500. In a "show must go on" basement show scenario, I'm probably taking the tube amp because it can take the beating, and it'll still work without PA support.

$1800 Floorboard +$1200 guitar X 2 for redundancy, plus whatever speaker solution I'm using. Add in another $1400 for the IEM rack (probably closer to $2.5k, but depreciation). And yes, I'm bringing my IEM rack to play in a basement, lol. Talking $10k plus for accurate redundancy.

Doesn't matter what you bring, and frankly if you need 6k$ in gear to sound worth a shit you've got some serious skill disadvantage problems compared to hoards of other musicians. I doubt that is the actual case.

If your name is on the bill and you don't fill it that's a shit heel move, bro. Don't be that guy, don't make excuses for being a priss. There are certainly non-confrontational and reasonably noble ways to handle adherence to your personal preferences, taking your toys and going home isn't it.

I don't NEED any of it, but I'd still rather no-show than bad show. Especially in a situation like dive/basement/punk house.

All aside, I've canceled maybe 2 shows in the last ten years and it wasn't because of me. But, I'd still rather back out than be half of what I want to be. But this is all incredibly OT.
Tube amps are cool, but incredibly unnecessary in most use cases.

 

[SalsaWood]

But this is all incredibly OT.

We've been talking about a completely asinine analogy written by some artificial light addict whose only advantage is not knowing how to use chat GPT yet. I feel it's ok to go OT here since that's about the only worth the thread ever had in the first place. Otherwise to your point, I suppose that's fair enough. The way you said it originally came off primadonna as shit is all, lol. But let's establish a few things in any case.

If you have to use someone else's gear at a show it's your own fault.
If you don't want to use someone else's gear at a show it's your own fault.
If you commit to the show and don't play for any reason it's your own fault.
All responsibility to fulfil your willing obligations starts and ends with yourself.
Being poor or lazy is not an excuse.

Doesn't matter if it's a modeler and a tube pedal or a trailer full of ketamine and ukulele techs. If you don't show up fully prepared and it goes wrong for you to the point of bowing out due to technical issues, you're going to get treated like the turds in the men's room that never flush. In my experience musicians and especially guitarists are some of the most obtuse and unaccountable creatures in existence, just because everyone else doesn't care to be prepared and leeches off the very few people who are doesn't mean it's cool. That's the only opinion I have on what to bring to a show or use at all. Get what you need to do the job twice, bring it, be on time, and do the job. One counts as none, two counts as nonzero. Also, take a fucking shower if you haven't. Those are the only hot takes I have on gear, most of which aren't even about the gear at all or even really directed at you personally. It's just shit I see all the fucking time and get so sick of. Knowing musicians has made me lose more respect for music than any amount of shitty tone ever has.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Knowing musicians has made me lose more respect for music than any amount of shitty tone ever has.

On this we can agree. If I wasn't literally feeling compelled to do this on a daily (hourly, every thirty seconds I'm thinking about) basis, it would be the dealing with people unwilling to take accountability for, at the bare minimum, themselves and their responsibilities. I somehow ended up in another band with people after swearing up and down that any future projects would be me and the only other consistently reliable musician I've ever met: my laptop.

 

[TedEH]

$1800 Floorboard +$1200 guitar X 2 for redundancy, plus whatever speaker solution I'm using. Add in another $1400 for the IEM rack (probably closer to $2.5k, but depreciation). And yes, I'm bringing my IEM rack to play in a basement, lol. Talking $10k plus for accurate redundancy.

I mean.... just don't do that then? You introduced all this gear you would "need" for a basement show to justify saying you would never bring that much to a basement show, in a thread about whether or not tubes are still relevant. If it's just a basement party, just bring beater gear and be done with it, if it bothers you.

 

[CTID]

Tube amps are cool.

Modeling is also cool, for completely different reasons.

There it is boys, I cracked the code.

 

[GunpointMetal]

I mean.... just don't do that then? You introduced all this gear you would "need" for a basement show to justify saying you would never bring that much to a basement show, in a thread about whether or not tubes are still relevant. If it's just a basement party, just bring beater gear and be done with it, if it bothers you.

I've sold off all my "beater gear". But that's also probably why we don't play (or get invited to) many basement shows. I love playing them, I'll even bring the PA if needed, but around here once your name goes on a flyer at places with nice stages and big rooms you stop getting told about the DIY shit for a lot of things. We're far from a theater-level band, so I don't even know how we ended up here, lol.

 

[torchlord]

Honestly I think the biggest factor is most folks can't turn up a tube amp. It's a lot of horsepower they don't need unless they are in a band- and even then folks don't really seem to care as long as the audience, usually comprised of pedestrian audiophiles at best, doesn't mind.

While both can sound good or bad in any context, it's very easy to get lost in the sauce with modeling. I'd say roughly half of the underground metal bands I know of firsthand sound like ass regardless, but the good ones mostly use tube. All of this is speaking about metal, because it's the premier genre of guitar-er-ing and effects.

When it comes to cleans I'd say it's very, very, indiscernibly close if you've got the gumption to dial your modeling in.

This is one of the reasons I haven't gone modeling after my Axe Fx Ultra which I still have but don't use. There is just way too much tweaking to find "The sound" and it is too easy to never be satisfied wanting more or a better sound than what you currently have. Funny after all these years I check in on the new Axe Fx threads when they pop up and see if they ever got to a point where they don't need a new firmware update. Still waiting on that. I've bought two tube amps and spent more than enough on tubes which isn't great but at least I know it is real and sounds good and tweaking is pricey so I can't go nuts with it.