Berklee Summer Performance Program 2013

[Rocky]

He's playing (mostly) consistently ahead of the beat. He is totally rushing on some of those large sweeps and taps, but it's not anywhere close to as bad as you.
His time more like an even line with blips in it, while your time is really wavy and out of control.


Don't model your time-feel after Tosin. Tosin's time isn't that great.

I'm actually liking your criticism to be honest. Can you watch the other video I posted up and comment on that as well. I am keen on improving myself always.

 

[Xiphos68]

How do you enter for the Scholarship?

Submitting videos? I have thought about attending Berklee several times.

 

[jafurman]

How do you enter for the Scholarship?

Submitting videos? I have thought about attending Berklee several times.

From the Berklee site: "...Scholarship applicants are required to submit links of a maximum of three (3) YouTube performances and a short essay highlighting their musical and academic achievements."

 

[Osorio]

You said you checked up videos of Victor Wooten... I think you should revisit them. Maybe try to more actively engage in the subject this time. Your grasp on time doesn't seem to be what you think it is, as you should have been able to tell that you (and Tosin) were ahead of the beat.

I would also suggest you record yourself in a different manner. Do only audio, and no backtrack. Record to a click. Record a rhythm guitar first, so you have musical reference and are not just flailing away. When you see how off you are against the metronome (I'm not are saying you are fated to be immensely off, I'm just saying you WILL be off by some amount, and you need to know what amount that is), it is sort of a wake up call. I'm saying from experience on this one.
Right now, I'm going through recording some original and cover material, and it is jarring how off my playing is sometimes (and I play EASY stuff), on things that I thought I had completely down. Truth is, once you remove the correct song from underneath you, all the mistakes come crashing.

Through this process I have come to agree with Trespass. A good sense of time and the ability to groove with the track are what will most immediately tell a "high-level amateur" from a professional musician.

In regard to your improvisation: I thought it was interesting. In matters of time tough, it is kinda difficult to tell because it has a very free-time feel, since there isn't much of anything keeping a steady rhythm for the most part. When stuff do come around, it gets hard to tell for others reasons, at least for me. Your tone is sounding really muddy and it's not cutting through as it should. I do feel you are ahead on it and a lot of the riff sound disjointed, but it is not as jarring, as it it not something I'm particularly familiar with (the song).
It sounds more apparent on the AAL cover because it is a song many of us here know quite well.

My above advice stands, record to a click and see how you fare. Be very analytical and critical of your playing. The moment you are completely satisfied is the moment you stop evolving, you know?

All the best.

 

[Winspear]

I enjoyed your vids, but yeah the AAL one really isn't 'in the pocket'. Not saying it's something I'm capable of either haha but it's definitely way ahead. It can be hard to notice yourself because it's not 'out of time' as such..just not tight. It would sound better with your entire audio clip moved back a few ms I bet.

 

[Bruceywilliams]

I agree with the above. You obviously have some really great chops. I'm sure you'll get the scholarship but the AAL video could be much better.

 

[Rocky]

I want to say a big thank you to all of you- I probably wont be submitting the AAL video after all haha. I'm currently in the process of making my own stuff for submission which is probably the best thing to do.

Thanks so much for the advice and feedback, it really helped me and has made me even more damn critical for the future.

 

[Trespass]

I'll be submitting this as well! Let me know what you think

Two things:

1) Your time is weak here except when you're playing rhythm. You have a really small pulse especially in the improvised (?) intro. Realize that "free" time doesn't really exist. The brain will always perceive or look for the rhythmic patterns in your playing. Studying rubato and elastic time will help you. But that's also years and years of development (see: any romantic era solo instrument [especially piano] peformance).

Back to your video: I've actually been into what you're doing before (in the intro) - The key is relax, veg out, and realize that everything you think is small or too long silence wise, needs to be drawn out even further.

2) Taste wise, I think your movements are really pretentious (but you are young, and I imagine probably the strongest musician in your age group) and they actually (maybe/possibly) interfering with your time abilities.

This is debatable, but I'm in the school of thought that your whole body should be involved in tone production and time keeping.



WATCH THIS WHOLE VIDEO.
Notice how her solo guitar playing in the first half IMPLIES the pulse and the chord structure despite the fact it's just her on guitar. Masterful.
Check 4:36. She talks exactly about this there.

Do not dismiss this because she's a jazz player. The entire idea is that she keeps time with her entire body (and she also has excellent time).

--------

Send in the AAL video (or do a better take).

I honestly think you have a bright future ahead of you (caveat: so do a lot of people - if you go to this Berklee thing, you will no doubt be VERY humbled).
The difference is to objectively realize what your strengths and weaknesses are, and keep plugging away on a daily basis on what you suck at. Don't always play what you're good at.

Also, very, very seriously study classical and jazz performance, and jazz theory. I mean, 16-20 hours of practice per week in that idiom, and find jazz performance opportunities with people much better than you. Work like hell just to be able to play with them, and commit to improving yourself.
It will automatically elevate everything you're doing, regardless of genre, to a much, much higher level.

 

[Rocky]

I'll have to disagree with you there- There is such thing as free time. You have this idea that music needs to be constrained into a meter which is just not true. Check out Ravi Shankar or his daughter Anouska Shankar. You will see that much of the Indian Classical material has NO pulse, which was what I was after. While I agree that the brain instinctually picks up patterns, it is a great skill (which I am developing) to be able to break free from that notion. Rubato time is completely different, have you heard raindrop prelude by Chopin? Its amazing-but it was not what I was after, it has a pulse and has sort of a push-pull effect.

The majority of what you're saying is purely subjective. I don't think body movement should have anything to do with composition- that is purely a performance aspect. If you want to see pretentiousness, check out Steve Vai who puts fans in front of the stage so his hair may blow up.

I agree with you for the AAL video that I do seem to rush-but not to the point where listening to it is not enjoyable-unless you're the type of person who cringes at the slight 1ms lag haha. Plus, you got to start off from somewhere. It's not like every guitar player started of with pristine timing.

 

[Trespass]

I'll have to disagree with you there- There is such thing as free time. You have this idea that music needs to be constrained into a meter which is just not true. Check out Ravi Shankar or his daughter Anouska Shankar. You will see that much of the Indian Classical material has NO pulse, which was what I was after. While I agree that the brain instinctually picks up patterns, it is a great skill (which I am developing) to be able to break free from that notion. Rubato time is completely different, have you heard raindrop prelude by Chopin? Its amazing-but it was not what I was after, it has a pulse and has sort of a push-pull effect.

The majority of what you're saying is purely subjective. I don't think body movement should have anything to do with composition- that is purely a performance aspect. If you want to see pretentiousness, check out Steve Vai who puts fans in front of the stage so his hair may blow up.

I agree with you for the AAL video that I do seem to rush-but not to the point where listening to it is not enjoyable-unless you're the type of person who cringes at the slight 1ms lag haha. Plus, you got to start off from somewhere. It's not like every guitar player started of with pristine timing.

Indian Classical music definitely definitely definitely has pulse.
Please post examples of what you think is "free" time.

I don't think music has to be constrained into a meter- It's physics. It's patterns. That's just the way it goes. Meter is in pretty much everything we do.
There are different qualities and consistencies, but time (meter) is in everything.

I studied classical piano for 16 years. I have performed the Chopin Raindrop Prelude, other many other romantic era works. I literally teach piano for a living.

And this:

I agree with you for the AAL video that I do seem to rush-but not to the point where listening to it is not enjoyable-unless you're the type of person who cringes at the slight 1ms lag haha.

was a really odd jab at my character.
Your tone throughout is really condescending. Are you serious?

 

[Rocky]

Here's are a few examples (listen to the introductions)





I do not perceive a pulse. That is the intention of an Alap (unmetered introduction-improvised) in Indian Classical Music. You can read it up on the internet as well if you'd like. Alap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If for some reason you pick up on a pulse then that is you're perception, but don't say I have "weak timing" in the beginning of my song as it comes across as you not understanding what I'm trying to do.

I don't mean to be condescending! I think judging tone across the internet is somewhat a useless thing to do. And You're obviously more experienced than I am, and I have listened to everything you said for the future- that was insinuated from the start, why would you feel the need to shed your music experience. It doesn't really make you anymore right/less wrong.

Plus that comment about the 1ms was me trying to be sarcastic- It didn't come across as so hence proves my point as to trying to deliver tone across the internet. Sorry if you felt like I was 'jabbing' your character, I didn't mean it.

 

[jafurman]

I don't think Rocky is being condescending so much as defensive. I've met him in person and can vouch for his character, and I doubt that any condescension is intended.

Trespass, what do you mean when you say that he has a "small pulse" in the intro? Do you mean that his pulse isn't very distinguishable? Also, do you have any tips for objectively realizing your strengths and weaknesses aside from the obvious practice of recording yourself? I ask because I'm personally in a rut of sorts, and considering that you're quite experienced and a teacher, I figure you're probably the right sort of person to ask.

 

[Trespass]

Here's are a few examples (listen to the introductions)





I do not perceive a pulse. That is the intention of an Alap (unmetered introduction-improvised) in Indian Classical Music. You can read it up on the internet as well if you'd like. Alap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's unmetered. In this case, it's not tied to a specific time signature.

I listened to both examples - There is definitely a pulse in both. If we were in person, I would sit down and clap to the pulse and show you exactly where it is. The second is exceptionally wavy and elastic, but it's actually a consistently wavy in parts - ie. rubato.

All of what I heard could be scored out (interpreted) in western notation.



Hate to say it, but you don't have the ears for this level of time yet.

If for some reason you pick up on a pulse then that is you're perception, but don't say I have "weak timing" in the beginning of my song as it comes across as you not understanding what I'm trying to do.

Nope. I definitely understand what you're trying to do. You don't understand what you're trying to do.

I don't mean to be condescending! I think judging tone across the internet is somewhat a useless thing to do. And You're obviously more experienced than I am, and I have listened to everything you said for the future- that was insinuated from the start, why would you feel the need to shed your music experience. It doesn't really make you anymore right/less wrong.

Plus that comment about the 1ms was me trying to be sarcastic- It didn't come across as so hence proves my point as to trying to deliver tone across the internet. Sorry if you felt like I was 'jabbing' your character, I didn't mean it.

It's obvious that you have a large ego and are now trying to backtrack so as not to come off as a dick. It's okay - You are really young, a decent player for your age (not an exceptional one yet), and most-likely completely unchallenged.

Please go to Berklee.
One of three things will happen:

1) Your ego will be very challenged by how great everyone else your age and younger is. It'll level you out.

2) You'll be in denial of the above, graduate and be bitter about your statistical lack of success. This is so unbelievably common in the classical stream that is ridiculous. Guys/girls that can play at a university level at 13-14 who "don't make it" after having their ego fed for years up to college. Reality sets and they aren't the next big thing.

I mean, it's so common that there are probably 10 of these cats graduating this year in my city alone.

3) You will be the .05% that achieves success, keep the ego, and keep trucking along.

Again, you're a pretty good player - but you don't hold a candle skill-wise (technique/rhythm/writing) to the hundreds of guys out there your age or younger who are virtuoso level already.

There's tons of variables as to who will achieve success - some will get lucky breaks, heard by the right person. A lot will burn out and go into another field. Some will be amazing, but there isn't enough of an audience to sustain that. Most of them will not be able to figure out how to market themselves. etc. etc.

Good luck.

 

[Trespass]

I don't think Rocky is being condescending so much as defensive. I've met him in person and can vouch for his character, and I doubt that any condescension is intended.

Trespass, what do you mean when you say that he has a "small pulse" in the intro? Do you mean that his pulse isn't very distinguishable? Also, do you have any tips for objectively realizing your strengths and weaknesses aside from the obvious practice of recording yourself? I ask because I'm personally in a rut of sorts, and considering that you're quite experienced and a teacher, I figure you're probably the right sort of person to ask.

Find an exceptional performing musician who is also an exceptional teacher who is willing to speak frankly and won't sugar coat things so you don't get offended and quit lessons with him.
This is actually really difficult to do.

Play clips of artists performing and have him analyze and break it down for you.
Just like you learn what "good technique" is, you'll learn what good time sounds like. Learn what good writing is, and above all, why.

And obviously, all the different perspectives/motives on these things are good. The idea is, you'll learn to hear what good "x" is and why.
Then you can run all the analysis on your own playing that you want.

Music is part art, part entertainment, part social commentary. But above all, it's communication. And different motives influence that (using music to sell a car, move a dance floor, represent years of oppression, "expand your mind" are all massively different objectives music has).

This is books worth of ideas or years worth of teaching I'm trying to condense down to a few forum posts.

Trespass, what do you mean when you say that he has a "small pulse" in the intro?

Just like a human voice can be grand, spacious and theatrical, or small, nasally and constrained, pulse can be the same way.

The examples in the linked videos are more grand and spacious "free" improvisations. The space is "breathing" between phrases.
(This is possible because there is an underlying pulse underneath it all)

His, is much more constrained (again, because there is an actual pulse beneath it), not giving the phrases enough room to breathe.

 

[Overtone]

I detect some serious snobbery in here. What is it that makes you so sure Rocky feels a need to be a "virtuoso" who plays everything at an extreme level of competence? Is that assumed about everybody who goes to Berklee? I've had first hand dealings with students and alum from there and from full on conservatories and Berklee is a much more relaxed environment... musical growth is valued above virtuosity. There are definitely some humble students there and good technique, timing, etc. is certainly encouraged, but for most of the majors there being "perfect" isn't a must for graduation. I'm in agreement with you that if he cannot perceive the timing issues there will be a disconnect between his expectations of himself and the reality, and everybody going to any music school could use a good slap in the face, but for somebody like me music is not wholly represented by academic elitism. I guess kudos to you for pushing Rocky harder but I feel like it is worth saying that music and rock especially can be more than that (or less if that is your perspective).

All the more reason why you should go to Freak Guitar Camp Rocky! IA is 100% self taught but pushes hard on every boundary and includes many kickass and unusual concepts in the materials, including some of the Indian classical rhythm concepts and tonality. Quite a humbling ground of attendees there as well... I was shocked at how good almost every camper was when I went.

 

[Trespass]

I detect some serious snobbery in here. What is it that makes you so sure Rocky feels a need to be a "virtuoso" who plays everything at an extreme level of competence? Is that assumed about everybody who goes to Berklee?

I'm in agreement with you that if he cannot perceive the timing issues there will be a disconnect between his expectations of himself and the reality, and everybody going to any music school could use a good slap in the face, but for somebody like me music is not wholly represented by academic elitism. I guess kudos to you for pushing Rocky harder but I feel like it is worth saying that music and rock especially can be more than that (or less if that is your perspective).

I think you're pretty dramatically misinterpreting what I have to say.

Music is part art, part entertainment, part social commentary. But above all, it's communication. And different motives influence that (using music to sell a car, move a dance floor, represent years of oppression, "expand your mind" are all massively different objectives music has).

The foremost thing you need to develop as an artist is your ability to communicate. Everything else should be there to help those goals.
Well communicated, compelling ideas trump everything.

But: I work with a lot of pop artists and in the neo-soul/R&B scene, as well as sell services in artist development. My job (when performing) is to add a setting to the lyrics and add the right color and support behind what the performer is doing.

I don't really need any of the other chops I've developed: technique, advanced timing, what I studied in composition, beyond that. But that isn't my sole source of income. So when I accompany a jazz singer in a duo situation, I use another skillset. When it's a quintet, I've learned how to comp with a guitar player. When I do a solo classical performance, it's another branch of use.

At the core of all of these is the technical, timing, and theory "headroom" that I can access when needed. At the bare minimum, you must have adequate time. His videos do not show that he has adequate time (probably because he was unaware of how bad it is).

Food for thought:
Unless you get lucky and become famous for being a songwriter/rock musician etc., a professional musician is a lot like being a professional athlete.

I've had first hand dealings with students and alum from there and from full on conservatories and Berklee is a much more relaxed environment... musical growth is valued above virtuosity. There are definitely some humble students there and good technique, timing, etc. is certainly encouraged, but for most of the majors there being "perfect" isn't a must for graduation.

All the more reason why you should go to Freak Guitar Camp Rocky! IA is 100% self taught but pushes hard on every boundary and includes many kickass and unusual concepts in the materials, including some of the Indian classical rhythm concepts and tonality. Quite a humbling ground of attendees there as well... I was shocked at how good almost every camper was when I went.[/QUOTE]

I think Freak Guitar Camp is a great choice for artistic development (especially for the money).

Pat Metheny (who taught at Berklee in 1974)
"Most guys at Berklee are going to wind up truck drivers…"

I don't necessarily agree with Pat, but food for thought. With anything, it is what you put into it.
Hard work, constant refinement of the process and vision.

 

[Overtone]

Thanks for the elaboration! I agree that at the very least if you want to be an alumnus of a place like Berklee (not just the summer program) you want to somehow make a living from music and will have to have those kinds of skill sets to tap into or you will be in the red for a very long time until your writing gets you somewhere (if it ever does). My one friend who actually graduated is kinda jaded on the experience but I still see him getting gigs ranging from R&B to Indian Classical so I'm sure he picked up a lot of great stuff there. He was still pretty damn sick going into the whole thing.