Blacktop Tele in standard sounds fiercer than Gibson Les Paul in Drop C?

[P-Ride]

Hey, I recently got the Fender Mexican Standard HH Telecaster, which to all intents and purposes seems to be the well-known Blacktop, albeit with a coil-tap and uncovered pickups.

I've played a Gibson Les Paul Studio Platinum in double Drop C with Ernie Ball Beefy Slinkies for years (I love drone chords), but have been keen to work on my theory and also have a guitar for learning traditional songs by popular bands, for pleasure.

Whilst I play big, chuggy riffs with an eastern vibe on the Gibson, I also LOVE dirty, sexy funk riffing, so a Telecaster in standard tuning made perfect sense.

We've been recording for a sports label using a Peavey 6505+ and orange 4x12", boosted by a TC Electronic Spark and while the tone is fairly thick with my Gibson, I've been a little unsatisfied in the responsiveness.

I plugged in the Telecaster which has Ernie Ball size 9s on in and wow.

This guitar sounds wild, lively.. feedbacking brilliantly, harmonics leaping off the board and just some raucous, wicked sounds coming out. I'm mainly playing heavy funk and it's just great fun.

In contrast, the Les Paul in C is thicker, but I have to put in a lot more work to get sounds out.

Now I know 12 gauge strings are heavier than 9s and downtuning my strings between 1 and 2 tones will sound less bright, so I will be slightly slower.

I can't help but feel something else is going on though.

Should the Les Paul in C be this less responsive and wild? It feels a little like a rhino that's being slightly sluggish and tired. Whereas the Telecaster feels like a pit bull, at peak energy.

Various things pop into my head, such as uncovered pickups, different pickups (Gibson has stock 490R/490T pickups) etc.

I tend to set my pickups fairly high and have tried that.. I think it helped a tiny bit.

What do you guys think I could try?

 

[Seybsnilksz]

Could be the longer scale length of the tele.

 

[Andromalia]

There will always be guitars that sound better than others, irrelevant of price point. Even very cheap guitars can be very good, because they are made in such quantities that, at some point, stars will align and all the mistakes/defects will be going to the other guitars: the guy doing the quick fret job will miraculously angle all his strikes perfectly, the electronics will be soldered properly by chance, etc.

So: rejoice, you got a better than average blacktop tele ! Nothing out of the ordinary, my best Gibson is the studio one.

I was at a shop last week where th eowner has known me for a long time, he asked me whyu I bothered trying his 300€ guitars since he knows I have the budget to buy considerably more expensive stuff, I told him "who knows, maybe one of them is a hidden gem".

 

[P-Ride]

There will always be guitars that sound better than others, irrelevant of price point. Even very cheap guitars can be very good, because they are made in such quantities that, at some point, stars will align and all the mistakes/defects will be going to the other guitars: the guy doing the quick fret job will miraculously angle all his strikes perfectly, the electronics will be soldered properly by chance, etc.

So: rejoice, you got a better than average blacktop tele ! Nothing out of the ordinary, my best Gibson is the studio one.

I was at a shop last week where th eowner has known me for a long time, he asked me whyu I bothered trying his 300€ guitars since he knows I have the budget to buy considerably more expensive stuff, I told him "who knows, maybe one of them is a hidden gem".

Sure, there's definitely truth in this.

Nonetheless, I feel there's something lack in my Gibson.. it's not giving me the joy through our 6505+ that I'm sure it could be, in its current form.

 

[mnemonic]

You've got a lot of things going on between those guitars, the LP has thicker strings in a lower tuning on a shorter scale with different pickups and it is made of different wood.

If you've got a spare pack of 9's, put them on the LP, tune it to standard, and see how that fares. It may be that you're more of a Telecaster guy than a Les Paul guy, and you only just found out, or it might be the lower tuning and thicker strings.

Generally thicker strings in a lower tuning aren't as 'lively' sounding as thinner strings in a higher tuning. Easy to test, play the 5th fret on your low E string, then your A string open. Same note, but they sound pretty different.

 

[CapnForsaggio]

You just found out you are a "bolt on" maple guy.

Don't be shy, there are lots of us. These guitars just spank a little harder. Set neck guitars never seem spanky enough for me.

 

[metallkrieg]

You just found out you are a "bolt on" maple guy.

Don't be shy, there are lots of us. These guitars just spank a little harder. Set neck guitars never seem spanky enough for me.

This! The exact same thing has happened to me... Always had "metal" guitars with humbuckers, set necks, etc... Then one day bought a Fender Standard Strat and put an Hot Rail in the bridge position... BAM!

It is still my favorite guitar!

 

[broj15]

I posted a thread recently about how the tone of my bassist's blacktop jag put that of my RG570 to shame (SD SH-5). Not sure what it is but there's something about those pickups. I'm running mine through a 6505 2x12 boosted with a fulltone OCD and a boss GE7 in the loop and it sounds amazing. Great feedback, chugs sound chuggy, and the top end is pretty defined without sounding harsh.

 

[Rizzo]

The two guitars are polar opposites.
The LP is obviously short-scale, dark and weighty while a Tele is typically a little lighter, bright in woods, metallic and got a super spanky tone due to the long scale and coils positioning. I got a Squier 50's Classic Vibe one (same thing for the Fender '52) and it's very peculiar, night and day from my slab-of-mahogany Schecter C1. Also I think that the clanky metallicness and extreme spanky responsiveness of a Tele give some inspiration that other guitars can't translate as well (ex. quarter-tone bendings, even on chord transitions).

So it's pretty obvious you get more top-end response, and above all clarity and definition from a Tele. Maybe that's what you're actually looking for?

Teles also getting more and more used on metal records (with humbucker mods in case) just because of that reason.
For instance, a friend of mine just recorded his latest dissonant black metal EP with a tele for clarity's sake. You just can't replicate the vibe.

 

[Aymara]

The two guitars are polar opposites.

That's it and a short scale full mahogany Les Paul for my taste is the worst choice for tunings below Drop D.

If I compare my Les Paul Signature T, which is already a bit brighter than the average LP, to my Schecter Hybrid C-1, the later has much more high end clarity due to it's maple neck (body is mahogany). On both guitars I use Gibson Brite Wires in .10-.46

 

[P-Ride]

I cannot express the level of contempt I have for this forum, that it has twice let me type out a lengthy reply and then lost it when I've clicked 'post'.

I really appreciate your help and wanted to engage, but I'm not into 1990s standard forum technology.

 

[P-Ride]

The two guitars are polar opposites.
The LP is obviously short-scale, dark and weighty while a Tele is typically a little lighter, bright in woods, metallic and got a super spanky tone due to the long scale and coils positioning. I got a Squier 50's Classic Vibe one (same thing for the Fender '52) and it's very peculiar, night and day from my slab-of-mahogany Schecter C1. Also I think that the clanky metallicness and extreme spanky responsiveness of a Tele give some inspiration that other guitars can't translate as well (ex. quarter-tone bendings, even on chord transitions).

So it's pretty obvious you get more top-end response, and above all clarity and definition from a Tele. Maybe that's what you're actually looking for?

Teles also getting more and more used on metal records (with humbucker mods in case) just because of that reason.
For instance, a friend of mine just recorded his latest dissonant black metal EP with a tele for clarity's sake. You just can't replicate the vibe.

Thanks guys, third attempt at a reply! (Typed into MS Word, so 7string can’t lose it).

Yeah, clearly I have too many variables going on to identify what I’m enjoying so much.

Definitely, leading playing is faster, which is obvious, due to the lighter strings.

Whilst the riffing doesn’t sound as chunky; equally, I can riff faster and more stylistically in some ways. For example, pulloffs to open D/E on the lowest string hits a real nice twang as the string snaps back.

Palm muting isn’t as good. I think I’m going to get new saddles, but – more importantly – go up to 10s. Hoping that doesn’t slow me down too much, whilst giving me a little extra chunk.

This guitar and standard/Drop D is definitely a keeper.

I need to try a Les Paul in standard for a while to establish how much it’s the guitar and how much it’s the setup I’m enjoying.. Don’t want to mess with the setup of mine.

Ultimately, the decision is whether I keep my Les Paul in Drop C, or go back up to standard on it and get a longer scale length for Drop C.

Cheers

 

[Riverrunsred]

I play mostly stoner doom, there is nothing that compares to a 24.75 scale mahogany bodied guitar tuned to c(or lower) in the heaviness dept.

IMO of course.

 

[Winspear]

You just found out you are a "bolt on" maple guy.

Don't be shy, there are lots of us. These guitars just spank a little harder. Set neck guitars never seem spanky enough for me.

Your post just describes the differences between a Tele and a Les Paul, to me.

 

[P-Ride]

I play mostly stoner doom, there is nothing that compares to a 24.75 scale mahogany bodied guitar tuned to c(or lower) in the heaviness dept.

IMO of course.

'Heavy' to you is bassy or low-mids?

I'm realising (particularly with a modded Boss GE7) that I love upper mids; harmonics, feedback and lots of nuances in palm-muting, string muting etc.

 

[P-Ride]

Your post just describes the differences between a Tele and a Les Paul, to me.

I thought set-net was just 'better', no?

 

[P-Ride]

Great article on the differences between set and bolt-on necks here..

All About Bolt-on and Set Necks | GuitarPlayer

I've been trying to pin down just one or two setups for my arsenal (given that I'm moving to Australia at the end of this year), but have this sinking feeling that the more I'm learning, the more I can see reasons for combinations of all these different attributes, across my guitar rack!

 

[Andrew May]

Your post just describes the differences between a Tele and a Les Paul, to me.

Compounded by the downtuning and string gauge difference and playing stlye.
I don't know why you're surprised that the LP sounds the way it does, I'm not sure it's even a "bad" thing.

Also the level of hyperbole in the OP made me sick in my mouth a bit.

 

[P-Ride]

Compounded by the downtuning and string gauge difference and playing stlye.
I don't know why you're surprised that the LP sounds the way it does, I'm not sure it's even a "bad" thing.

Also the level of hyperbole in the OP made me sick in my mouth a bit.

Yeah, I'm a writer. That's what we do.

 

[Andrew May]

Yeah, I'm a writer. That's what we do.

I've still never played a guitar that felt like "a pit bull a peak energy".