Blu Guitar Amp-X

[Backsnack]

I would just wait, the Amp X is out probably around November at the earliest based on when the Amp 1 models were released, more likely only around NAMM 2021 in January since it's a more complicated unit. I have no doubts it will be a great device, Blug knows his stuff.

You could consider the Line6 HX Effects to pair with the Iridium. It would do the MIDI controller stuff and has tons of good fx while being about the same size as the Iridium. Owning a Helix Floor is why I am having some second thoughts about the Amp X, I feel like I have most of what it offers already.

The HX is awesome, no doubt. But since I have the handful of Alexander’s that I already like, it seems somewhat redundant in terms of the delay, reverb, and modulation effects. But the convenience factor of even just all the utility effects like eqs, comps, boosts, IR loader, etc. even makes the price worth it. Especially when they’re like $400 used these days.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Any updates on this? Still seems like it's reveal will be mid-2022.

 

[laxu]

Any updates on this? Still seems like it's reveal will be mid-2022.

I don't think we will get anything until summer NAMM 2022. The latest info is in some Q&A livestream on BluGuitar's channel but it didn't bring anything new really.

 

[Backsnack]

At this point I’m with @laxu ’s sentiments that it’s going to have a hard time winning me over with my combo of an Amp1 Iridium and HX Stomp XL. (I upgraded my previous HX Effects.)

This combo sounds so good and it’s ridiculously versatile. The more I’m learning the Helix universe I’m finding I can get rid of extra pedals I thought I needed.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

At this point I’m with @laxu ’s sentiments that it’s going to have a hard time winning me over with my combo of an Amp1 Iridium and HX Stomp XL. (I upgraded my previous HX Effects.)

This combo sounds so good and it’s ridiculously versatile. The more I’m learning the Helix universe I’m finding I can get rid of extra pedals I thought I needed.

The Helix is indeed a great platform. I never sold my POD GO after getting my Axe 3 because it's still a fucking great sounding unit that I can bring anywheres where I feel like my Axe wouldn't be the best place to bring.

While I'm sure the amps in the Amp X are gonna kick ass, I mostly want to know how the effects will be. If the delays and modulations are good, then I'm sold. I just hope they aren't an afterthought.
...Did Thomas have anything to do with digital amps like the zenTera and the effects section of the Blade series?

 

[Backsnack]

The Helix is indeed a great platform. I never sold my POD GO after getting my Axe 3 because it's still a fucking great sounding unit that I can bring anywheres where I feel like my Axe wouldn't be the best place to bring.

While I'm sure the amps in the Amp X are gonna kick ass, I mostly want to know how the effects will be. If the delays and modulations are good, then I'm sold. I just hope they aren't an afterthought.
...Did Thomas have anything to do with digital amps like the zenTera and the effects section of the Blade series?

I’m sure Blug is hiring good people to help with designing great effects and he’s probably going to copy his favorite pedals he already uses. He’s too meticulous for anything to be an afterthought. The great sound of the Amp1 Iridium is a testament to that since he’s not a metal guy at all.

I'm pretty sure he worked at Hughes & Kettner for a while, but I don't know if he was involved with the ZenTerra.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I’m sure Blug is hiring good people to help with designing great effects and he’s probably going to copy his favorite pedals he already uses. He’s too meticulous for anything to be an afterthought. The great sound of the Amp1 Iridium is a testament to that since he’s not a metal guy at all.

I'm pretty sure he worked at Hughes & Kettner for a while, but I don't know if he was involved with the ZenTerra.

He was there since 2014, so yeah it does seem like he had a hand with that stuff.

 

[GreatGreen]

So this whole product feels like it's being designed as a platform for amp manufacturer collaboration, like the Synergy system... but instead of separate Synergy modules, all the circuitry already comes wired up in the unit. So, manufacturers will simply get to pick out their favorite internal component routes, slap on a fancy name and amplifier graphic in the desktop app, then charge users to access it... you know, instead of users being able to design their own circuits themselves using components that already exist in the $1,000+ product they just bought.

I like the tech and the BluGuitar stuff seems innovative and cool, and it's been shown time and time again to sound great, but this puts a bad taste in my mouth.

Basically it feels like I'm being sold a 3 channel amp with 2 channels locked behind a paywall I can access for an additional fee. No thanks.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I just hope this isn't another Quad Cortex situation. I trust that Thomas wouldn't overdeliver, though.

 

[Backsnack]

Interesting concept. Kind of like a video game console but for guitar amp circuits.

In Youtube interviews, one of the first things the designer talks about is the ability to collaborate with other amp manufacturers and a system that allows royalty payments for them if they design a circuit to be sold in his marketplace.

I also notice that despite this thing being designed to "accommodate all possible circuits" as much as possible, there is absolutely zero mention of allowing the user to create their own circuits. Wouldn't want to cut into those sweet sweet royalty payments.

It's actually not like a video game console in that way. Video game consoles are really just computers, and designers design software and code to run on them. With the AmpX, all the analog circuitry and components it will ever contain will come with the device. No reason to restrict user access to that other than $$$$$$$, which is a bit disappointing to hear.

That level of granular control to make your own circuits you're talking about is a level of technical ability that very few people have. It also could potentially expose proprietary code and technology of the amplifier itself for copyright/patent infringement and theft of intellectual property. Especially when Blug is setting up an ecosystem for people to pay for new amplifier circuits there's 0% chance that's going to happen.

If you're looking for a truly open source/DSP playground sort of device I only know of two pedals in existence that meet that need:
-Mod Duo
-Empress ZOIA

Anyone else feel free to chime in with other suggestions, but there are very few companies that open their devices up to that level of user interaction that you're asking for.

 

[GreatGreen]

That level of granular control to make your own circuits you're talking about is a level of technical ability that very few people have. It also could potentially expose proprietary code and technology of the amplifier itself for copyright/patent infringement and theft of intellectual property. Especially when Blug is setting up an ecosystem for people to pay for new amplifier circuits there's 0% chance that's going to happen.

If you're looking for a truly open source/DSP playground sort of device I only know of two pedals in existence that meet that need:
-Mod Duo
-Empress ZOIA

Anyone else feel free to chime in with other suggestions, but there are very few companies that open their devices up to that level of user interaction that you're asking for.

I mean, if all the components are already in there, the ease of use would depend entirely on the quality of software the company provides. It could be as simple or complicated as BluGuitar wants.

What would have happened to the Axe-Fx if Cliff Chase thought "well the Fractal modeling capability is just too complicated, I better just work with manufacturers directly and let users pay for extra models as they're developed, and only give them access to traditional parameters?" Because personally I think that would have killed the universal success and appeal of the Axe-Fx entirely. Absolutely nobody likes or wants a capable product that has been hamstrung by paywalls. It just stinks of corporate greed and late stage capitalism bullshit, and even if you do end up "caving" and buying it, you still think of it as "caving in" and that feel of being taken advantage of is always there hovering in the background, killing inspiration.

But Cliff didn't do that. Instead, he thought "Ok the modeling algorithm is what it is, and it's already in there and working fully, so I'll provide the classic controls for guitar players who just want that, then I'll create my own Advanced control section and let people mess with that stuff all they want" and it was basically perfect. The Axe-Fx as it is currently (and other modelers that followed suit), literally allows for almost entirely bespoke amplifier circuit design. But Fractal knows better than to present it to users in the form of a schematic diagram. Instead, things are broken down and made easily digestible. "What do you want the input filtering to look like? What about the tone stack? Ok where do you want those frequencies centered? Want an extra gain stage or two? Want to change the size of the transformer? Wattage? Tube types? Presence and Resonance/Depth characteristics? Negative feedback? The list goes on.

The AmpX as a piece of hardware, from its start, will always be as capable of producing analog routes as it will ever be. There's no reason BluGuitar couldn't just create its own "Advanced" section of the AmpX software that basically gave users a set of templates or corralled sets of parameters or component pairings and routings, and let them change that stuff however the software and hardware will allow and see what happens. Add a resistor here, a parallel route instead of a serial route there... sky's the limit. And who knows, with that capability, some designs might surface that neither the designer or collaborative manufacturer ever would have conceived that could blow any premade circuit out of the water.

 

[Backsnack]

I mean, if all the components are already in there, the ease of use would depend entirely on the quality of software the company provides. It could be as simple or complicated as BluGuitar wants.

What would have happened to the Axe-Fx if Cliff Chase thought "well the Fractal modeling capability is just too complicated, I better just work with manufacturers directly and let users pay for extra models as they're developed, and only give them access to traditional parameters?" Because personally I think that would have killed the universal success and appeal of the Axe-Fx entirely. Absolutely nobody likes or wants a capable product that has been hamstrung by paywalls. It just stinks of corporate greed and late stage capitalism bullshit, and even if you do end up "caving" and buying it, you still think of it as "caving in" and that feel of being taken advantage of is always there hovering in the background, killing inspiration.

But Cliff didn't do that. Instead, he thought "Ok the modeling algorithm is what it is, and it's already in there and working fully, so I'll provide the classic controls for guitar players who just want that, then I'll create my own Advanced control section and let people mess with that stuff all they want" and it was basically perfect. The Axe-Fx as it is currently, literally allows for almost entirely bespoke amplifier circuit design. But Fractal knows better than to present it to users in the form of a schematic diagram. Instead, Fractal breaks things down and makes them easily digestible. "What do you want the input filtering to look like? What about the tone stack? Ok where do you want those frequencies centered? Want an extra gain stage or two? Want to change the size of the transformer? Wattage? Tube types? Presence and Resonance characteristics? Negative feedback? The list goes on.

There's no reason BluGuitar couldn't just create its own "Advanced" section of the software that basically gave users a set of templates or corralled sets of parameters or component pairings and routings, and let them change that stuff however the software and hardware will allow and see what happens. Add a resistor here, a parallel route instead of a serial route there... sky's the limit. And who knows, with that capability, some designs might surface that neither the designer or collaborative manufacturer ever would have conceived that could blow any premade circuit out of the water.

Ok so I think these two posts are describing fundamentally different things. Having a bunch of advanced controls isn’t really the same thing as designing your own amp circuit, but I get that Axe is cusotmizable to the nth degree.

Ultimately if you’re looking for the vastness of an Axe product I doubt this will fill that need. Furthermore, the effects section of the Amp X probably won’t have the variety of an Axe or a Helix.

Blug’s product approach is much more curated and distilled from his past experience in amp design and being a player with good ears. You either like what offers or you don’t.

 

[GreatGreen]

Ok so I think these two posts are describing fundamentally different things. Having a bunch of advanced controls isn’t really the same thing as designing your own amp circuit.

Ultimately if you’re looking for the vastness of an Axe product I doubt this will fit that bill. Furthermore, the effects section of the Amp X probably won’t have the variety of an Axe os a Helix.

Blug’s approach is much more curated and distilled. You either like what offers or you don’t.

I think this is where we disagree.

The AmpX marketing suggests that new "amp circuits" will be released over time, and that the AmpX will be designed to accommodate new circuit design. I could be wrong but the only way that would be possible with analog circuitry is that either a limited number of circuits are designed and implemented at the start but some of those circuits are unlocked over time under the illusion that new amps are "coming out," or if the marketing is to be believed, more likely it's that there is an array of "available" circuitry components and an internal dynamic component routing matrix, kind of like a pedal loop switcher but designed for hundreds of tiny guitar circuit components instead of just a few effects pedals. If that's the case, there's no reason BluGuitar couldn't give users access to that matrix to see what they come up with.

And like I said, whatever the software looks like, it can be as simple or as advanced as BlueGuitar wants. My main point is that this capability will be available to amp manufacturers and collaborators, so there's no reason it can't also be made available to users... other than BlueGuitar's fear of losing out on revenue, which feels lame and shitty.

I don't buy the "but the users are too stupid so this is really just to help protect them from themselves" argument. If the collaboration software is designed so that you can't physically destroy components, what's the problem? Let people make crap, who cares? It will be fun either way, and you might even get lucky and stumble on something that sounds good!

 

[broangiel]

I just hope this isn't another Quad Cortex situation. I trust that Thomas wouldn't overdeliver, though.

Thomas actually said in an interview that the reason he's been relatively quiet is that he's seen the chest thumping of another manufacture fly back in their face, and he wants his product to launch in its time and complete. He obviously didn't go into details, but everyone knew this was a comment on NDSP.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Thomas actually said in an interview that the reason he's been relatively quiet is that he's seen the chest thumping of another manufacture fly back in their face, and he wants his product to launch in its time and complete. He obviously didn't go into details, but everyone knew this was a comment on NDSP.

Good on him.

 

[Backsnack]

Thomas actually said in an interview that the reason he's been relatively quiet is that he's seen the chest thumping of another manufacture fly back in their face, and he wants his product to launch in its time and complete. He obviously didn't go into details, but everyone knew this was a comment on NDSP.

They are really playing with brand image fire by keeping a key feature out of a final release product for over a year now. Meanwhile, still releasing new plug-ins.

 

[broangiel]

They are really playing with brand image fire by keeping a key feature out of a final release product for over a year now. Meanwhile, still releasing new plug-ins.

Personally, I agree with you. Neural maintains there are two different teams with different roadmaps and responsibilities, so plug-in releases don’t impede QC development. Regardless, I still think it’s a bad look.

 

[laxu]

I think this is where we disagree.

The AmpX marketing suggests that new "amp circuits" will be released over time, and that the AmpX will be designed to accommodate new circuit design. I could be wrong but the only way that would be possible with analog circuitry is that either a limited number of circuits are designed and implemented at the start but some of those circuits are unlocked over time under the illusion that new amps are "coming out," or if the marketing is to be believed, more likely it's that there is an array of "available" circuitry components and an internal dynamic component routing matrix, kind of like a pedal loop switcher but designed for hundreds of tiny guitar circuit components instead of just a few effects pedals. If that's the case, there's no reason BluGuitar couldn't give users access to that matrix to see what they come up with.

And like I said, whatever the software looks like, it can be as simple or as advanced as BlueGuitar wants. My main point is that this capability will be available to amp manufacturers and collaborators, so there's no reason it can't also be made available to users... other than BlueGuitar's fear of losing out on revenue, which feels lame and shitty.

I don't buy the "but the users are too stupid so this is really just to help protect them from themselves" argument. If the collaboration software is designed so that you can't physically destroy components, what's the problem? Let people make crap, who cares? It will be fun either way, and you might even get lucky and stumble on something that sounds good!

I think you are underestimating the complexity of replicating an amp. Most users of the Axe-Fx don't touch the advanced controls at all because most of them are very subtle and also hard to understand without being familiar with how tube amps work. I've been using Fractal for over a decade now and still leave the advanced stuff largely untouched because changing to another amp model is more straightforward.

Internal tools for developing this kind of stuff are often very crude and would require significant polish to make them usable by the general public. It's not worth the development effort so that a niche section of the end users can play around with it. And it will always be a niche section of users for anything that isn't a largely automated process like Kemper/QC profiles/captures.

It's not like BluGuitar just hand brand X's chief amp designer some piece of software and tell him or her to replicate their amp on it. Training them to use it well would be a much bigger endeavour. Instead the new amps/effects will be completely developed by BluGuitar, but I expect they will try get support from the original manufacturers who can maybe explain how the circuits work better, can help test, can loan the real amp etc.

Thomas has said that the reason for the paid model is that they want to provide kickbacks to the original designers and also to have the resources to replicate an effect or amp model well. That sounds fair to me but even if you never paid for any extra stuff, the Amp X is set to come with all the sounds from the Amp1 Mercury and Iridium editions and those already cover almost everything you would ever need.

 

[Backsnack]

I think you are underestimating the complexity of replicating an amp. Most users of the Axe-Fx don't touch the advanced controls at all because most of them are very subtle and also hard to understand without being familiar with how tube amps work. I've been using Fractal for over a decade now and still leave the advanced stuff largely untouched because changing to another amp model is more straightforward.

Internal tools for developing this kind of stuff are often very crude and would require significant polish to make them usable by the general public. It's not worth the development effort so that a niche section of the end users can play around with it. And it will always be a niche section of users for anything that isn't a largely automated process like Kemper/QC profiles/captures.

It's not like BluGuitar just hand brand X's chief amp designer some piece of software and tell him or her to replicate their amp on it. Training them to use it well would be a much bigger endeavour. Instead the new amps/effects will be completely developed by BluGuitar, but I expect they will try get support from the original manufacturers who can maybe explain how the circuits work better, can help test, can loan the real amp etc.

Thomas has said that the reason for the paid model is that they want to provide kickbacks to the original designers and also to have the resources to replicate an effect or amp model well. That sounds fair to me but even if you never paid for any extra stuff, the Amp X is set to come with all the sounds from the Amp1 Mercury and Iridium editions and those already cover almost everything you would ever need.

Thanks for better articulating the point I was trying to make.

Also to your comment about the sounds in the Amp-X, apparently the eq controls will be able to be saved per preset with whatever preamp is selected. That feature alone makes the immediacy of “every amp sound you need” even more flexible.

 

[lewis]

The neural doesn't even sound good to my ears. It's like a more refined modern version of what Line 6 we're delivering years ago with the Pod HD series only that was better.

And I'm assuming feel is still big problem. I.e it doesn't feel real to play with which is where the amp1 wins again.

Only way I would get interested in the ampX, seeing as it comes stock with Mercury and Iridium built in, is If I could somehow have both activated at once to create a new tone using both.
When you have an Iridium and effects already you don't really feel the need to upgrade.