Can a EVH 5150 III approximate Marshall and Recto tones?

[Paincakes]

I've been using modelers for a while and there are 3 separate amp models I gravitate toward:
- Marshall JCM800 for hard rock (think GNR)
- Peavey 6505 for metal (think Carcass or Machine Head)
- Mesa Dual Recto for a different flavor of metal (late 90s tallica)

I dig those models so much that I'd like to own the real tube amp equivalent, but buying three amps is expensive. I would consider the mini heads and collect all three, but I aim to eventually use them live and I'm afraid they wouldn't be loud enough. I have the 6505MH, I love it at home, but it's just not loud enough with the band.

I'm contemplating cutting corners and potentially buying one amp that could approximate them. Is the EVH 5150 III that amp? The 50 watt form factor hits a sweet spot. What's the TLDR with the 3 50 watt variants (regular, el34, stealth)?

Thanks again!

 

[diagrammatiks]

not really but if you have pedals and modeler you can do whatever you want.

 

[budda]

If you have a helix, kemper or axe fx then buying the amp is probably going to end up with selling the amp . Out of the 3, the jcm800 doesnt do quiet, the recto doesnt like quiet (does it, but jam levels are where it shines) and the 5150 is great at tv volume tone as well.

Buy a powerstage 700 and decent 412 if you want the amp vibe.

 

[Shask]

I recently got a 5150 III 50W 6L6, and I have been loving it. I have several amps, and modelers, and such. I find it to be the ultimate compromise amp. I wouldn't say it is the best sounding amp, but it sounds pretty good, and does low volume well, has a good loop, has good features, MIDI, etc... It has better feel than my Axe-FX II and such, and it is not as loud/touchy as my big 150W amps.

As far as sounding like other amps, I guess it depends on how picky you are. The blue channel can do a pretty solid Marshall crunch type tone, but it won't sound just like a JCM800. You could get some good 80's hard rock tones, but I think it would lean slightly more Soldano than Marshall. The red channel will be much tighter with more aggressive upper mids than a Recto. If you scoop it and crank the bass, you can kind of get a boosted Recto style tone, but it will always be tighter and more aggressive.

 

[Paincakes]

If you have a helix, kemper or axe fx then buying the amp is probably going to end up with selling the amp . Out of the 3, the jcm800 doesnt do quiet, the recto doesnt like quiet (does it, but jam levels are where it shines) and the 5150 is great at tv volume tone as well.

Buy a powerstage 700 and decent 412 if you want the amp vibe.

I have an Axe FX / Powerstage / cab rig, it's great, but unfortunately doesn't scratch my tube amp itch.

I recently got a 5150 III 50W 6L6, and I have been loving it. I have several amps, and modelers, and such. I find it to be the ultimate compromise amp. I wouldn't say it is the best sounding amp, but it sounds pretty good, and does low volume well, has a good loop, has good features, MIDI, etc... It has better feel than my Axe-FX II and such, and it is not as loud/touchy as my big 150W amps.

As far as sounding like other amps, I guess it depends on how picky you are. The blue channel can do a pretty solid Marshall crunch type tone, but it won't sound just like a JCM800. You could get some good 80's hard rock tones, but I think it would lean slightly more Soldano than Marshall. The red channel will be much tighter with more aggressive upper mids than a Recto. If you scoop it and crank the bass, you can kind of get a boosted Recto style tone, but it will always be tighter and more aggressive.

Thanks for that. Do you know what are the main tone and feel differences between 6L6, EL34 and Stealth variants?

 

[0rimus]

IIRC Fluff did a comparison video of the EVH 50w El34 on the red channel and a dual recto, and I was floored by how close they sounded to one another.

The unboosted Evh red channel was still a smidge tighter and more aggressive than the boosted Recto, and my favorite tone he got out of em.

Idunno if the 5153 could do Marshall tones though... The midrange is so different between the 2 getting that Marshall mids raspy bark. Feel like it'd take a bit more work

 

[Werecow]

I've been using modelers for a while and there are 3 separate amp models I gravitate toward:
- Marshall JCM800 for hard rock (think GNR)
- Peavey 6505 for metal (think Carcass or Machine Head)
- Mesa Dual Recto for a different flavor of metal (late 90s tallica)

I dig those models so much that I'd like to own the real tube amp equivalent, but buying three amps is expensive. I would consider the mini heads and collect all three, but I aim to eventually use them live and I'm afraid they wouldn't be loud enough. I have the 6505MH, I love it at home, but it's just not loud enough with the band.

I'm contemplating cutting corners and potentially buying one amp that could approximate them. Is the EVH 5150 III that amp? The 50 watt form factor hits a sweet spot. What's the TLDR with the 3 50 watt variants (regular, el34, stealth)?

Thanks again!

The blue channel does a "better than Marshall" Marshall tone for my taste. It has the classic grind but not the weird snarl/smear in the higher range that i've never liked in Marshalls (that's the only way i manage to describe it). Could be summed up as a modded Marshall channel. I think it sounds great for Metallica - Ride the Lightning tones.
The red sounds huge, more modern and does the 5150 thing. I've never played a recto, but i use the channel for songs that use Mesa tones on their albums, and it sounds close enough and good enough for me. With some scooping in particular i think it sounds great for Metallica - Black album stuff.

Lots of people (including me) don't like the blue channel on the EL34 version, it's loose and flubby in comparison, so i'd suggest the normal 6L6 50w. Not enough is known about the Stealth version yet, not even sure if they're out in the wild.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Lots of people (including me) don't like the blue channel on the EL34 version, it's loose and flubby in comparison, so i'd suggest the normal 6L6 50w.

I don't understand the hate for the EL34's blue channel. I live on the blue channel of my EL34 and to me is sounds great. What I've noticed is that through my Orange 212OB, it sounds better with a tubscreamer, but in a recording, it sounds better without one.

 

[Bearitone]

With the 5150 III you won’t be getting 6505 tones. Just sayin.

I had both and the 6505 is more raw/aggressive/grinding. The gain structure of the 5150III is smoother. If the 5150III is 80 grit sand paper, the 6505 is 40 grit.

That said, a 5150III will probably get you closer to Marshall tones overall, specifically the blue channel.

As for Recto tones, I didn’t find them in either the 5150III or 6505.

A good compromise between a 6505 and a Recto (in my opinion) would be a SLO or SLO-clone like the Jet City 100HDM. The 6505 and Recto are different from, but based on, a SLO.

There’s a LOT of mods out there for it so you can change what you do/don’t like.

Then for Marshall tones you can run either a Fulltone OCD or MI Super Crunch Box into the clean channel.

 

[Bearitone]

If you want to venture down the rabbit hole of preamp pedals, you could easily get a Recto style preamp (AMT R2), 6505 style preamp (Tightmetal Pro), and a Marshall style preamp (AMT M2 and a few others) all on one board and run them into a poweramp.

You would definitely be spending more than you would on a decent tube amp though

 

[Alexa run my life]

I would look into Bluguitar Amp1 Mercury or Iridium.

The Mercury will do Marshally tones pretty well. The Iridium will do Marshally tones plus 5150ish type tones ballpark.

 

[viifox]

You'll be able to do the Marshall thing with an EVH a lot better than you can do the recto thing. In fact, any variation of the 5150 doesn't even come close to recto territory.

You'll need both amps if you want both sounds.

The other thing you can try is boosting the green channel on a 5150/6505. That channel has a bit of meat to it, "kinda" like a recto. That's the closest you'll get, but it's still a bit far off from the recto roar.

 

[budda]

Question re "modeller isnt doing it" - how loudly are you running?

 

[USMarine75]

EL34 blue channel is uncompressed Marshall territory. You need to use less gain and lows than you think, push the mids, and you need volume.

The red channel would be closer to Recto tones, but not quite.

The 5153S sounds more Recto IMO.

 

[KailM]

You'll be able to do the Marshall thing with an EVH a lot better than you can do the recto thing.

The other thing you can try is boosting the green channel on a 5150/6505. That channel has a bit of meat to it, "kinda" like a recto. That's the closest you'll get, but it's still a bit far off from the recto roar.

Agreed that the EVH can do the Marshally sound on the blue channel. 6505+ green w/ crunch boost does it better though.

As for the regular 6505, I’ve gotten sorta close to the Recto sound on the green channel w/ crunch OFF, but gain dimed, and boosted with an OD. I’ve only played a Rec loud a handful of times, but I remember a massive, saggy response that hit like a freight train, and that is definitely what I get out of my 6505 with those settings. However the Peavey still has more mids up higher.

Ultimately if you really need a pure Recto sound you’ve got to buy one.

 

[Boris_VTR]

Agreed that the EVH can do the Marshally sound on the blue channel. 6505+ green w/ crunch boost does it better though.

Can you share any settings that you used? So green channel with crunch on (bright probably off?). Gain at around 15 o’clock probably?

 

[viifox]

Agreed that the EVH can do the Marshally sound on the blue channel. 6505+ green w/ crunch boost does it better though.

As for the regular 6505, I’ve gotten sorta close to the Recto sound on the green channel w/ crunch OFF, but gain dimed, and boosted with an OD. I’ve only played a Rec loud a handful of times, but I remember a massive, saggy response that hit like a freight train, and that is definitely what I get out of my 6505 with those settings. However the Peavey still has more mids up higher.

Ultimately if you really need a pure Recto sound you’ve got to buy one.

Exactly. It's the proper mids and aggression that the green channel ultimately lacks to pull off the recto sound, but the feel is "kinda" there.

 

[Paincakes]

Question re "modeller isnt doing it" - how loudly are you running?

I used it fairly loud at band practice and a few gigs. It sounds great, but when I use my tube amps, there's an immediacy and "punchiness" that I just don't get with the Axe FX / Powestage / Mesa 2x12. Granted through the PA, the audience would absolutely not tell the difference. I'm not knocking modelers, I love em too (I have an FM3 on the way lol) but since they helped me narrow down 3 amps that I do like, I figure might has well get the real deal to add to my collection.

For those keeping track at home, I'm currenyl leaning towards biting the bullet, not compromise, and slowly save up for all 3 amps, starting with the recto. Yolo.

 

[c7spheres]

Incase you haven't tried it that input impedence thing on the AxeFx might help feel. I don't own own but read about it. Aside from that try out preamps
- Rocktron Valvesonic Plexi or Marshall JMP-1 for Marshall
- Kartakou Colossas or Rockmaster for Peavey tones
- Mesa Boogie preamps for Mesa Tones.
- Clean and clear power amp like a Fryette or even put those through AxeFx to neutral power amp.

 

[KailM]

Can you share any settings that you used? So green channel with crunch on (bright probably off?). Gain at around 15 o’clock probably?

Certainly. Crunch is actually OFF. Bright ON, but I suppose that depends on the brightness of your pickups; I've always preferred it on regardless. Gain all the way up.

So yes, this is the "clean" channel we're talking about. But most people have never tried the "clean" channel of the OG 5150/6505 with the gain all the way up. It's not clean. At all. Without a boost, it's pretty distorted, but you have to pick pretty hard. This is with high output pickups, mind you. Might not be enough if you are using low output pickups. Then, if you hit it with an OD/clean boost, it's all the way into metal territory, but is the thickest, meatiest sound you can get out of the amp. It is still less compressed, and responds greatly to your picking dynamics. I remember Rectos feeling that way. They don't have a crazy amount of gain. You've got to sort of provide the gain by picking really hard. Same thing going on here.

Anyway, EQ settings (these are actual numbers on the dials):
Bass: 6-7 depending on how much thump your cab can handle
Mids: anywhere from 3-4, so a slight scoop, but it's still not really scooped; you've gotta go all the way down to 1 or 2 with the mids on a 5150 to truly scoop it
Treb: 6-7

Resonance: 6-7

Finally, the input you use affects the sound. I find the low-gain input actually sounds a little thicker than the high gain input. Not a huge difference, but noticeable.

It sounds absolutely massive and crushes like a Recto. Different preamps though, so ultimately it's still going to have a 5150 flavor no matter what. I run an EQ in the loop too which greatly affects the sound. If I had a Recto at home I could probably get it closer with the EQ.