Covid 19/Coronavirus

[Drew]

This was the absolute stupidest course for this pandemic to take. The economy was actually surprisingly healthy despite having large sectors of business shut down. I personally think we know for a fact the "independence from the virus" rollback on mandates was not science based and I don't even think it was based on saving the economy, I think it was 100% political points and it blew up in their face because we're all fucked now.

Honestly, I've been saying for more than a year now that the resiliency of the US economy and the way it can rapidly adapt to adjust to changing circumstances is one of the most encouraging things to come out of this pandemic. We were thrust into a world in which it wasn't safe to come within six feet of others indoors, and inside of a month you had restaurants moving full-scale into delivery only or cook-at-home meal kits, bars successfully lobbing to get blue laws changed to allow pre-packaged cocktail to go sales and where they couldn't selling mixer kits, businesses figuring out how to contact free curbside business... Shit, a local open-air market set up what was basically a giant Chutes and Ladders style map oin their courtyard to let their vendors shuttle customers with appointments through to run what was basically a contact-free farmers market... It was hardly seamless, and businesses definitely failed and a lot of the ones who didn't were still struggling... but I thought it was remarkable how well our economy found ways to continue producing goods and services that wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

Which is one more reason why I think we declared victory too soon. I understand the Biden Administration's thought process - by granting more privileges to vaccinated Americans it would encourage more people to get vaccinated, a carrot rather than a stick... but, with no stick at all and no actual way to enforce accountability - vaccine record requirements, for one - it was stupid because of course this would fail, and evidently we can no longer count on Americans to do the right thing for their country if it involves even the slightest inconvenience.

 

[Drew]

...but I have been reading over the last year over and over "watching the game last night I was glad to see the stadium full and it felt great, I was pumped up, feels like back to normal again" and the mindset blows my mind. You can't enjoy the game unless it's a full stadium but further, you can't enjoy watching the game ON TV unless the stadium is full. And that's among even moderate or even 70/30 lefties to righties.

Like, I get this thought process, and how a return to normal life probably DOES feel good, after the last 18 months. But the amount of burying of one's head in the sands to feel that way while being well aware that we're nowhere close to beating this back, and even vaccinated people are still getting sick (I personally know two breakthrough cases right now, one of which was a teenager who "kids don't get covid" and the other her and her husband, and their two young kids, both got sick, even though they're both vaccinated). Like, if it was true, and we could really all go to a packed arena with impunity, that'd be great. But it's not, so feeling that way right now is basically just believing in fairy tales.

 

[Randy]

Honestly, I've been saying for more than a year now that the resiliency of the US economy and the way it can rapidly adapt to adjust to changing circumstances is one of the most encouraging things to come out of this pandemic. We were thrust into a world in which it wasn't safe to come within six feet of others indoors, and inside of a month you had restaurants moving full-scale into delivery only or cook-at-home meal kits, bars successfully lobbing to get blue laws changed to allow pre-packaged cocktail to go sales and where they couldn't selling mixer kits, businesses figuring out how to contact free curbside business... Shit, a local open-air market set up what was basically a giant Chutes and Ladders style map oin their courtyard to let their vendors shuttle customers with appointments through to run what was basically a contact-free farmers market... It was hardly seamless, and businesses definitely failed and a lot of the ones who didn't were still struggling... but I thought it was remarkable how well our economy found ways to continue producing goods and services that wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

Which is one more reason why I think we declared victory too soon. I understand the Biden Administration's thought process - by granting more privileges to vaccinated Americans it would encourage more people to get vaccinated, a carrot rather than a stick... but, with no stick at all and no actual way to enforce accountability - vaccine record requirements, for one - it was stupid because of course this would fail, and evidently we can no longer count on Americans to do the right thing for their country if it involves even the slightest inconvenience.

Like, I get this thought process, and how a return to normal life probably DOES feel good, after the last 18 months. But the amount of burying of one's head in the sands to feel that way while being well aware that we're nowhere close to beating this back, and even vaccinated people are still getting sick (I personally know two breakthrough cases right now, one of which was a teenager who "kids don't get covid" and the other her and her husband, and their two young kids, both got sick, even though they're both vaccinated). Like, if it was true, and we could really all go to a packed arena with impunity, that'd be great. But it's not, so feeling that way right now is basically just believing in fairy tales.

My larger point which I forgot to make is that, right now we're fighting the battle of getting people vaccinated but knowing vaccinated people are still spreading the virus and increasingly with some severe outcomes.

This is a, IMO, very hard to implement executive order to try and get people vaccinated that don't want to be. A lot of them. And if you snapped your fingers and it happened, there are still real issues with beating tis and recovering. And that will require SOME kind of participation by the people who are right now willingly vaccinated, when a lot of them have since come to the decision "I did my part, I've been good long enough so fuck everything else" (I see this stubbornness daily), so now you've got the secondary or third actions you're likely gonna have to take and fight with THESE people as well to get them to do it.

 

[bostjan]

That's kind of the part that blows my mind.

I post pretty frequently on a football message board and honestly most people on there aren't knuckledraggers but I have been reading over the last year over and over "watching the game last night I was glad to see the stadium full and it felt great, I was pumped up, feels like back to normal again" and the mindset blows my mind. You can't enjoy the game unless it's a full stadium but further, you can't enjoy watching the game ON TV unless the stadium is full. And that's among even moderate or even 70/30 lefties to righties.

I get the same thing from my friend, he's been bitching for months about vaccine passes and portals and mandates despite being vaxxed. Said well IF I want to go to a club I don't want to have to fight with my phone or worry about it not loading and the bouncer kicking me out. That's besides even getting past the idea you would insist on going to a club in the first place, the idea that it's maybe good but hypothetically could inconvenience me somehow someday maybe so I'd prefer it didn't happen at all.

This super weird insistence that not only do I want my life not even 1% different but I don't want anyone else's life any different either or whatever. It's just madness.

Less than a third of the unvaxed people I know are Trump supporters. And nearly half of the people I know are Trump supporters.

I think a lot of people (partly evidenced much earlier in this thread) thought that the vaccine would be basically the end of this. Not that it would "go away," but, that with the vaccine available, life would settle into a sort of new normal with most of the people being immune and the businesses all opening back up.

I guess what I've been saying since November-ish, is that the vaccine is the first major piece of the puzzle, but that there is so much more that has to happen before things go "back to normal." Even if we have this mandated passport/vaxcard/vaxvisa/etc., and it needs to be updated once/twice every year with a booster, it's going to eventually (prematurely) get ignored. There are also already people forging these things. There is a small but fairly substantial portion of the population that is far less likely to do something, even for their own benefit, if the government tells them to do it.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think this mandate from Biden is at all what we need right now.

 

[Xaios]

Got my vaccine passport. It's kinda weird though, they just put a stamp on my hand that says "999".

 

[bostjan]

Got my vaccine passport. It's kinda weird though, they just put a stamp on my hand that says "999".

Mine's on my forehead, but I got S/N "GGG"

 

[jaxadam]

Mine's on my forehead, but I got S/N "GGG"

Lucky you, I got the dyslexic guy, mine says "ddd"

 

[Se7enHeaven]

INCOMING NEWS
https://simonparkes.org/post/governor-speaks-out/

 

[SpaceDock]

INCOMING NEWS
https://simonparkes.org/post/governor-speaks-out/

Thanks for linking to your 5G conspiracy webpage. There is no such thing as a 100% vaccine and the death rate of those with the vaccine is 1 in 10,000. Someone who is not vaccinated is 11 fold more likely to die. Stop spreading knee jerk idiocy.

 

[jaxadam]

INCOMING NEWS
https://simonparkes.org/post/governor-speaks-out/

Hot damn that websites got some links on it boy! One or two more clicks and my 5G celestial patriot starter kit will show up in the mail!

 

[Se7enHeaven]

Thanks for linking to your 5G conspiracy webpage. There is no such thing as a 100% vaccine and the death rate of those with the vaccine is 1 in 10,000. Someone who is not vaccinated is 11 fold more likely to die. Stop spreading knee jerk idiocy.

I linked to a video that has nothing to do with the site? Could quite grasp that... no comment on the video, from the Gov of West Virginia? Or do you want to redirect again, about something on the subject of 5G?

 

[spudmunkey]

INCOMING NEWS
https://simonparkes.org/post/governor-speaks-out/

OK, so a clip played by a video podcaster, on a website of a guy selling "body allign EMF protection discs", which is basically a 1.25" round sticker for the back of your phone, and even a keychain with the sticker attached, that's supposed to protect your dog from 5G.

I understand that it's literally playing a video clip of the governor's speech, but c'mon, man...do better with sources...

OK, so: cases increasing among vaccinated in the last 2 months. How does that relate to the curve of people getting vaccinated in the first place? If 100% of people are vaccinated, then 100% of people testing positive will have been vaccinated.

The question is: how are those "tested positive" cases comparing to hospitalizations and deaths, taking those same vaccination numbers into account?

He mentioned that the number of deaths increased by 25%. Going from 4-5 is an increase in 25%. But he left out the other side of that equation: how much have unvaccinated deaths increased?

In West Virginia, cases have increased by 320%. So if vaccinated folks are only increasing by 25% while being 39% of the population, that seems to prove the vaccinated are doing pretty well.

In west Virginia, deaths are up 500% from 8 weeks ago. So again, vaccinated only going up 25% while being 39% of the population, seems pretty damned good.

edit: Here's a speech from the same governor from 2 days ago: "Pfeizer has been approved by the FDA, and I've told you that for 14 days now. We can't get the Biden administration to move forward on booster shots, we'll continue to try." "The only weapon we have is vaccination."

 

[Se7enHeaven]

OK, so a clip played by a video podcaster, on a website of a guy selling "body allign EMF protection discs", which is basically a 1.25" round sticker for the back of your phone, and even a keychain with the sticker attached, that's supposed to protect your dog from 5G.

I understand that it's literally playing a video clip of the governor's speech, but c'mon, man...do better with sources...

OK, so: cases increasing among vaccinated in the last 2 months. How does that relate to the curve of people getting vaccinated in the first place? If 100% of people are vaccinated, then 100% of people testing positive will have been vaccinated.

The question is: how are those "tested positive" cases comparing to hospitalizations and deaths, taking those same vaccination numbers into account?

He mentioned that the number of deaths increased by 25%. Going from 4-5 is an increase in 25%. But he left out the other side of that equation: how much have unvaccinated deaths increased?

In West Virginia, cases have increased by 320%. So if vaccinated folks are only increasing by 25%, that seems to prove the vaccinated are doing pretty well.

In west Virginia, deaths are up 500% from 8 weeks ago. So again, vaccinated only going up 25%, seems pretty damned good.

Weird... I'm posting about a speech given by a Governor and people are concerned about where it's posted, rather than the content. Weak. In any case, if you think an increase in deaths, by those vaccinated, at 25% is damned good, then I don't know what to say. What are YOUR stats from, to suggest there is a 500% increase (and without explaining what the increase is from, e.g., drug overdose, cancer, car accidents)? You said "do better with sources," but you provided NONE.

 

[Randy]

INCOMING NEWS
https://simonparkes.org/post/governor-speaks-out/

Can't trust a guy in such an ill fitting suit.

 

[TedEH]

I know we have an ignore people feature, but do we have an ignore thread feature? And yes, before anyone doesn't get the joke and "calls me on it", I see the irony of posting in a thread about not wanting to participate in the thread.

 

[spudmunkey]

Does someone have the link that was posted? After I posted my reply, I meant to see if I could find that specific speech from the WV governor to see what he was actually saying at the excerpt of that clip with the complete context, but I closed the window and I think I've got OP ignored.

 

[Randy]

I know we have an ignore people feature, but do we have an ignore thread feature? And yes, before anyone doesn't get the joke and "calls me on it", I see the irony of posting in a thread about not wanting to participate in the thread.

To each their own but I don't personally have an issue with "ignore worthy" arguments going on alongside ones I give a shit about. I think about it like the "Post Your Gas" thread. If something doesn't tickle my fancy, I roll right past it unphased. I kinda process dumb/bad faith posts in political threads the same way.

 

[spudmunkey]

OK, I found it. it was 3 weeks ago.

Starting at 22:38:


He used these increase in positive cases and deaths among the vaccinated as an example of how even vaccinated people are even being affected by non-vaccinated, and how he's pressing for booster shots for the most vulnerable parts of their population. And you can see how, by the numbers I provided in my previous post.

 

[spudmunkey]

Weird... I'm posting about a speech given by a Governor and people are concerned about where it's posted, rather than the content. Weak. In any case, if you think an increase in deaths, by those vaccinated, at 25% is damned good, then I don't know what to say. What are YOUR stats from, to suggest there is a 500% increase (and without explaining what the increase is from, e.g., drug overdose, cancer, car accidents)? You said "do better with sources," but you provided NONE.

My source? Literally any reputable source that tracks COVID cases and deaths, and comparing yesterday to 2 months ago. I didnt think I had to clarify "covid cases & deaths", but that's what I meant with 320% and 500%: the change in COVID cases and deaths respectively.

However, I will readily admit that my numbers are indeed flawed for one reason. You posted this as if this was brand new breaking information. So, I looked up today's numbers and looked up numbers from 2 months ago. However, what I didn't know until I was able to find the actual source source of the video from the Govermor's own YouTube channel ( And boy, does he talk slow… took a long time to find the right video with that clip… I eventually noticed that he rarely wears a tie, so was able to find the most recent video where he was wearing a tie, and searched through that video to find the clip), was that this was from 3 weeks ago. So I will absolutely admit that my numbers are probably skewed a bit, due to being 3 weeks off of both what "today" means and also "2 months ago" means.

But you're arguing a point he is NOT making. He's not doubting published numbers. You are mis-interpreting his intent, i have to assume partially because it was edited to remove his actual context by the vlogger/radio show/podcast host, to insinuate something else.

And while cases of vaccinated have gone up 25% in 8 weeks...how much have vaccination totals gone up in those same 2 months? Anything around 25%? Even if zero additional people were vaccinated in the last 8 weeks...you know what didn't go up at all? The number of UNvaccinated people...yet their numbers went up, too.

It's worth pointing out that West Virginia has among the lowest, if not the lowest, percentages of vaccinated population, and also has among the highest (if not the highest) increases in cases in the nation.

 

[spudmunkey]

Actually, going back to August 23rd and June 28th numbers (the date that video was posted, and the day 8 weeks prior:
Overall new cases went up 1,734%
Deaths went up 250% (using the running 7-day averages for 6/28 since they don't report every day)

For comparison:
Santa Clara County in California (SCC); 1.9 million people, 1,477 people/square mile, 81%+ fully vaccinated
West Virginia (WV); 1.7m people, 77.1 people/square mile, 39.9% vaccinated

(I just picked SCC because it's the closest county to me that's close to West Virginia's population)

Since 8/15 (4 weeks):
SCC Cases: 19.6% drop
SCC Deaths: 11 of these 26 days had 0 deaths, but the 7-day average is actually up 100%. It went from 1 (8/15) to 2 (yesterday).

WV Cases: 400% increase
WV deaths 750% increase

Today WV's deaths 7-day average is 750% higher than Santa Clara County, despite being 1/19th as densely populated, not being a border state (for whatever that's worth...a lot to a certain Florida governor), and 0 international airports (California has 9, and Santa Clara County is within 40 miles of 3 of those international airports) and give-of-take 1/7 the homeless population.