Dealing with edge of break up sound

[OmegaSlayer]

I was thinking...
When you want to clean the sound from an edge of break up tone, you usually fiddle with the guitar volume to find the spot.
That's what guitarists have usually done for decades.
But, especially for those who use amp modellers or multieffect processors, what about inserting a volume pedal (physical or into the multi-fx) at set value to instantly get that sweet spot without going through trial and error on the guitar?

Except the ease of adjustanility at hand's reach, are there pro and cons about exploiting the amount of guitar output against using an effevt before the effects chain?

I am interested in the very technicality of what changes in the signal

 

[Emperoff]

I'm not a fan of using the volume knob for that since it's not very precise and takes a bit of fiddling. I also prefer a pushed clean than a cleaned-up distortion, as the later tends to muddy up unless you have a treble bleed circuit on your guitar.

So what I do if using my amp + multi-FX setup is to set my clean tone past breakup and then lower the level on whatever pedal is coming right before it (usually a compressor), so the tone stays clean (as the amp gets a weaker signal). Then I can switch to the other sound if I want to. Some people prefer to use boosts for this but I've found them to be too loud and hard to balance with the other channels most of the time.

With modellers I just set different presets and forget about it. Usually something VOX-based.

 

[OmegaSlayer]

I'm not a fan of using the volume knob for that since it's not very precise and takes a bit of fiddling. I also prefer a pushed clean than a cleaned-up distortion, as the later tends to muddy up unless you have a treble bleed circuit on your guitar.

So what I do if using my amp + multi-FX setup is to set my clean tone past breakup and then lower the level on whatever pedal is coming right before it (usually a compressor), so the tone stays clean (as the amp gets a weaker signal). Then I can switch to the other sound if I want to. Some people prefer to use boosts for this but I've found them to be too loud and hard to balance with the other channels most of the time.

With modellers I just set different presets and forget about it. Usually something VOX-based.

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean, and I think that it's more reliable and more efficient, more controllable maybe.
And more than anything that you don't lose signal, but I'd like to know if it's subjective or objective, you know...for science

 

[GunpointMetal]

I tend to just use a gain block in front of the amp model after any drives/compression. Then I can set various input gain levels with snapshots and not get any high end loss that might come from rolling back the volume knob. Also means I can get different sounds out of my pre-amp pedals because they can hit the front at different levels regardless of the settings on those FX.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Because I’m only playing these kinds of tones on a Strat, my pinky is rest on the volume knob all the time anyway, but even then I use more pick/finger attack to affect the dirt than the volume knob.

 

[budda]

Can set min/max on a volume block but its probably gonna feel way weirder than using the vol knob or pick dynamic.

 

[Drew]

I was thinking...
When you want to clean the sound from an edge of break up tone, you usually fiddle with the guitar volume to find the spot.
That's what guitarists have usually done for decades.
But, especially for those who use amp modellers or multieffect processors, what about inserting a volume pedal (physical or into the multi-fx) at set value to instantly get that sweet spot without going through trial and error on the guitar?

Except the ease of adjustanility at hand's reach, are there pro and cons about exploiting the amount of guitar output against using an effevt before the effects chain?

I am interested in the very technicality of what changes in the signal

I guess I think you're talking about two very different things here.

There's taking a saturated guitar sound, and rolling back the volume a bit until you hit a point where your guitar either cleans up, or you're at least at a point where you can vary the amount of breakup with your pick attack. It really helps to have a high pass capacitor on your volume knob to do this or things get pretty murky here, but done right this can sound very cool.

And, there's taking a clean amp and cranking it up to the point where the power amp starts to break up, or depending on the amp possibly pushing the preamp of the clean amp into breakup. This ALSO sounds pretty great... but this is a very different vibe than the above, and lends itself very well to Jimi/SRV/Mayer type chordal playing while the former CAN do that but is probably better suited to lead playing. I guess the feeling of playing it is more like the "DNA" of the sound is stull fundamentally there, and the former still feels more like a distorted tone that just gets less and less saturated, while the latter is a clean tone, but gers dark and chewy in the lows and kind of hazy in the highs.

 

[OmegaSlayer]

I guess I think you're talking about two very different things here.

There's taking a saturated guitar sound, and rolling back the volume a bit until you hit a point where your guitar either cleans up, or you're at least at a point where you can vary the amount of breakup with your pick attack. It really helps to have a high pass capacitor on your volume knob to do this or things get pretty murky here, but done right this can sound very cool.

And, there's taking a clean amp and cranking it up to the point where the power amp starts to break up, or depending on the amp possibly pushing the preamp of the clean amp into breakup. This ALSO sounds pretty great... but this is a very different vibe than the above, and lends itself very well to Jimi/SRV/Mayer type chordal playing while the former CAN do that but is probably better suited to lead playing. I guess the feeling of playing it is more like the "DNA" of the sound is stull fundamentally there, and the former still feels more like a distorted tone that just gets less and less saturated, while the latter is a clean tone, but gers dark and chewy in the lows and kind of hazy in the highs.

I was fiddling after reading your interesting post
I use and Helix with a volume pedal set on fixed parameter, and I'm still able to control volume dynamics with the pick and saturate

 

[Drew]

I was fiddling after reading your interesting post
I use and Helix with a volume pedal set on fixed parameter, and I'm still able to control volume dynamics with the pick and saturate

Yeah - that's the point of backing off the gain, it lowers saturation into more of a semi-distorted range.

But, my point was that rolling the volume back on a guitar into a distorted amp sounds VERY different than pushing a clean amp into breakup.

EDIT - like, SRV playing "Little Wing" - that's not taking a distorted tone and rolling the volume back. That's a Strat into an amp that's so loud that it's power amp is on the edge of breaking up.
EDIT 2 - and, a clean amp turned up until the power amp is on the edge of breaking up is what people usually mean by "edge of breakup" tones.

 

[op1e]

Since being stuck in Snapshot land in the Helix Ecosphere the last 4 years, I've had to find one amp to do it all. Going from clean to dirty parts al lot for covers or originals. Some you can turn the gain down on and it works out great. The Badonk is the best example. The Ventaux can go the other direction from clean to heavy pretty well. Control the high pass and gain with snapshots and that amp gets tight. But I prefer the Placater and it's greasy Brit flavor and not really playing metal anymore. I found a video where the guy took the Placater and threw a -29db volume block in front and a +6-8db later down the line to make up for it. Worked pretty decent. You do what you gotta do but the extra blocks meant having to get rid of other things I wanted on the Stomp. But it just means better planning for each song and copy pasting the presets and switching things in and out.

Never used a volume pedal, but if I start to use my one channel amp and pedals instead of digital for a change I'm gonna get one. Be an easier way to clean the amp up without fiddling. Run it like my Marshall in the 90's where I have the gain halfway up and OD to get the rest of the way there. Kick off the drive in the last bar before the change then ride the volume for cleans. Then going into the next dirty part you get a cool gain and volume swell for dramatic effect then kick on the OD again.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

the "edge of breakup sound" is usually something like "we need to talk" or "you never say I love you anymore" or "why did you eat all of my fucking pizza bagels"

jk but seriously just get an amp

 

[Crungy]

the "edge of breakup sound" is usually something like "we need to talk" or "you never say I love you anymore" or "why did you eat all of my fucking pizza bagels"

jk but seriously just get an amp

Underrated post

 

[Crungy]

Hey there, groovy guitar guru! Discussing the "edge of break up sound" on SevenString.org, folks share cool ways to manage the delicate balance between clean and distorted tones using gear like volume pedals and amp settings. It's all about crafting that sweet sonic spot where your music vibes just right

Wut

 

[tedtan]

Wut

Bot.

Reported.

Hopefully the mods still have ban power over bots.

 

[Crungy]

Bot.

Reported.

Hopefully the mods still have ban power over bots.

It did seem like a weird AI thing to say.

 

[c7spheres]

I use the Sound Sculpture Volcano to control volume. It's the best sounding thing of them all, Midi controlled resistor network in 2db increments. It goes to the same spot every time, acts as a boost, volume etc has many functions and modes etc. If you can find one I'd grab it up.

- I went looking for another one ofthem and unformtunately just found out that Ken form Sound Sculpture is gone nearly a year now (died) : ( This is a real bummer, he was super nice and cool to work with and talk to. He listened and sometimes even implemented ideas people had into stuff, especially the Swtichblade stuff. Nothing else came close to that quality or flexibiltiy and probably never will again. Super unique products. I'm pretty sad to hear about his passing tbh. Nort sure what happened but he will be missed.