Depression and Guitar Playing

[Discoqueen]

Maybe just try to play something daily, even if it's just flicking your low E string as you walk past your guitar in a music stand or something - some days, that's the most I do, too (I've never consciously told myself to play something every day, but actually maybe that isn't a bad goal for me to set for myself, even if it's just something like that where I ring out one note on a guitar as I walk out the door). I think just the sound and the feel of a guitar can be empowering and exciting, and provide a valuable counterbalance to a different part of my life

That’s really thoughtful advice , thank you

I'm in the same boat although I haven't been diagnosed. I find it hard to pick up the guitar most days,which I know is frustrating for my friend because he wants to release some music soon. However,when I get over the hurdle and record,I go on a little spree and then it starts all over again.

If you meant you also feel depressed, unmotivated, and all those other things to a point that it is effecting your life, I really hope you can get to a doctor or a therapist soon! Don’t rely on a GP for meds.

Speaking as somebody who has been hospitalized twice in the past due to my major depression it is very important to keep up on your doctors about how you feel any medications you are on are working as well as they could be. many medications have diminishing returns over time and will either have to be increased in dosage or changed entirely to a different medication to do the most good. I would not ignore medication either as that may be the worst thing you can do, doing so in the past lead to me ceasing to function and put me away in a hospital for 2 weeks. Would not recommend. The reality about Major depression is that it is caused by a chemical imbalance in your brain that needs to be offset in some way.

I was lucky and when I was taken to the hospital, they decided I wasn’t a threat to myself or others. Which, that whole trip was absolutely fucked for a few reasons, so I’m glad they didn’t make me say. And thank you for your advice about really keeping up with the meds. I don’t have many people around who have struggled with depression this severely so it’s so good to hear from someone who seems to know a lot about it.


And everyone else who I haven’t quoted, thank you again!

 

[Discoqueen]

Maybe just try to play something daily, even if it's just flicking your low E string as you walk past your guitar in a music stand or something - some days, that's the most I do, too (I've never consciously told myself to play something every day, but actually maybe that isn't a bad goal for me to set for myself, even if it's just something like that where I ring out one note on a guitar as I walk out the door). I think just the sound and the feel of a guitar can be empowering and exciting, and provide a valuable counterbalance to a different part of my life

That’s really thoughtful advice , thank you

I'm in the same boat although I haven't been diagnosed. I find it hard to pick up the guitar most days,which I know is frustrating for my friend because he wants to release some music soon. However,when I get over the hurdle and record,I go on a little spree and then it starts all over again.

If you meant you also feel depressed, unmotivated, and all those other things to a point that it is effecting your life, I really hope you can get to a doctor or a therapist soon! Don’t rely on a GP for meds.

Speaking as somebody who has been hospitalized twice in the past due to my major depression it is very important to keep up on your doctors about how you feel any medications you are on are working as well as they could be. many medications have diminishing returns over time and will either have to be increased in dosage or changed entirely to a different medication to do the most good. I would not ignore medication either as that may be the worst thing you can do, doing so in the past lead to me ceasing to function and put me away in a hospital for 2 weeks. Would not recommend. The reality about Major depression is that it is caused by a chemical imbalance in your brain that needs to be offset in some way.

I was lucky and when I was taken to the hospital, they decided I wasn’t a threat to myself or others. Which, that whole trip was absolutely fucked for a few reasons, so I’m glad they didn’t make me say. And thank you for your advice about really keeping up with the meds. I don’t have many people around who have struggled with depression this severely so it’s so good to hear from someone who seems to know a lot about it.


And everyone else who I haven’t quoted, thank you again!

 

[myrtorp]

Something I like to do is get some drums going in my software (maybe there is drum tracks on youtube aswell) and just chugg along, see what i come up with. Dont forget to record any riffs you like!! It can be super hard to remember something the next day

I dont think you should force practise if you dont feel like it. I sometimes feel bad about not working on my chops as much as I want but then I realize I have enough skill to write music I enjoy and that is all that really matters.

I hope you will feel better!

 

[odibrom]

I don't have any direct experience with depression as you apear to have. The furthest I've know is someone once close to the family who got completely psyco with meds. Brain meds are... difficult to deal with, they'll do you good in one way but very harm in another, so pay much attention to that.

As I think of the subject (I'm no doctor nor anything related to mental wellness besides martial arts), depression is a condition that grows from within, and as so it must be fought from within. Pills do not work from within the soul/mind. Pills/meds are an external help that will work on your chemical balance and create a sense of well being... for as long as the pill works, then another pill must be taken and so on. I'm not saying these aren't important or that they should be banned, not at all, only that they aren't a long term solution in my point of view, only a patch (an important one for many).

Trust your doctors and your meds, but also work your inner self. Finding something objective to do is forcing the mind to be focused in something else that is not depression, specially if the something is small, unimportant like washing the dishes. The thing in doing objective things is that one doesn't have to question them, it's just doing and as so, the mind is refocused into those things. Eventually, you may find some joy in doing those things. Though this may seam like "doing nothing" because of how small they are, it actually is the opposite, you are doing something that keeps the mind busy. A busy mind has less time for depressive thoughts. So, find something objective to do, as small as making your bed, but with all the details. Then go for a walk in the park with a different path every day, so there will be some novelty to challenge your mind. Contemplate small things like a bird dipping in the water pond or a stray cat liking his parts in an alley. Find your joy in small things, small details, take pics with your phone or buy a camera and learn photography. These are only silly examples, I'm sure you can find your path. Again, trust your meds and doctors, but also work your inner self.

"God is in the details"... (replace the word god with whatever you feel more comfortable with, but I think you now what I mean)...

 

[Discoqueen]

Yeah, it comes from within my brain ^.~

People don’t consider too often how much a strain illness will put on the ill’s psyche. I’m not spiritual but what has shocked me is how profound depression can be in its darkest times. I almost discover the depths of my *soul* because the turmoil seems to keep digging deeper whencit is bad. It takes all of my cleverness just to decide if I should stay still or try to move forward, and even then, I can’t always know what’s best, just like anyone else.

I think your advice should be aimed more towards the passing kind of depression. Anhedonia is the loss of gratification in most of all things: forcing a mind that’s prone to anxious and obsessive thoughts and psychotic symptoms is really hard, and *soldiering through* can lead to very detrimental results. I really appreciate the way you’re coming at this, though. I don’t know that a lot of people realize the implications of depression in a metaphysical sense. Suicidal ideation is a crappy symptom where your brain just shows you having killed your self (intrusive thoughts are onces that just pop into your head, kinda like little vignettes. These are not the same as suicidal thoughts or behaviors because ideations just happen on their own— I’m just stressing this because for me this is a normal thing but a lot of people find it disturbing, but it is a symptom and one I can manage well). I wonder how detached or jaded a person can be after having all that kind of craziness play out in their head for years and years. You are most certainly right to say that it’s the little things though, and I’m gonna remember that thanks

 

[lurè]

Forcing your mind into something (expecially new things) is probably the worst thing you can do right now.
A synergistic medical and psychic therapy should help you regain the will to do the things you once enjoyed.
Working on your inner self it's hard when the problem lies right there and getting too close to the source can be detrimental when mind is vulnerable.
I don't know if anhedonia is fueling the depression leading you towards suicidal ideation or it's depression that is causing anhedonia (I've no medical preparation at all).
In any case if your a getting a treatment you're putting yourself on track for a succesful recovery.

 

[budda]

OP, have you started looking into treatments at all?

 

[TedEH]

We’re all musicians, so I imagine a lot of us have one diagnosis or another.

I'm a bit late to this thread I think, but the very first thing I see when starting at post #1 is this. I think this is a terrible point to start at- the sort of romanticism of depression that suggests it's coupled with artistry and expression- suggesting that "healthy" people aren't expressive, or that musicians and artists are driven by psychological issues.

In the case that you (not you specifically, but the generic "you") have a legitimate issue to work through, one of the more productive things I think one could do is to decouple the reality of the situation from the romanticism surrounding it- being clinically depressed doesn't make one "deep" or artistic or able to be more meaningfully expressive or anything like that.

I don't mean that to say that a creative outlet can't be therapeutic, but there there isn't any direct connection between playing an instrument and mental health. Some people play guitar more when they're depressed or in poor spirits or whatever else have you, and others do the opposite and play less.

 

[Drew]

That’s really thoughtful advice , thank you

Hell, it's something that I realized as I was writing it that *I* need to do.

Music's important. I need to remind myself how important more often, so I don't lose sight of that.

 

[Vyn]

I blew up mentally in a big way when I lost my partner nearly 4 years ago (4 years will be in July this year). Quit work, quit studying, quit sport, everything. Could not function. Went through a stack of different counselors and psychologists. I never ended up on medication because I refused to, mainly because I was scared of how it would change me. In hindsight, I probably should have at least considered it or tried it out because I was rather unhinged and suicidal.

I'm lucky enough to have two amazing friends who would put up with me ringing them at 2AM in the morning, sobbing down the line and they'd just listen to whatever I had to vent or if I was being particularly stupid, they'd talk me out of doing something I regret or worse. They kept me together for long enough for me to be able to develop the strength to keep myself together. Still have the occasional day where everything is complete hell and too much, but I'm able to grit my own teeth and tell myself I can pull through.

I remember when my partner died I refused to play guitar for 6 months. The only guitar I owned at that point was the one she had given me for my birthday 3 years earlier so I'd just burst into tears even when I'd just so much as look at the case. Eventually I was in a guitar store and purchased another guitar to play. Took a long while before I could even open the case of the guitar she gave me, let alone play it. I think I played it 5-6 times in the last 2-3 years. It's only in the last month I've taking it into the local guitar tech to be properly set up as I'm ready to start playing it full time again.

These days I make sure I do 45-60 minutes of scales every morning and evening, just as a ritualistic way to wake up of a morning and wind down after work in the evening. It doesn't feel like I'm forcing it because I've done it for the last 2 years now, it's pretty much like having a shower or a cup of coffee, it's that routine I don't think about it. Sometimes there will be weeks on end where that's all I'll do without actually playing a song or writing something. But it keeps everything sharp for when I'm really feeling it and stops that depressed feeling that occurs when you haven't played in ages and miss the standard of playing you once were at.

I can't say things get 'better' because it doesn't feel like the right word, however one's ability to deal with shit certainly improves over time.

 

[odibrom]

@Discoqueen Great accomplishments come by mainly by our focus on the things that are really important. A great accomplishment isn't the same for everyone, to some, opening the eyes every day could be thought as so, to others is only conquering the world is enough. It is all about scaling things and get them in perspective. History is full of stories of insignificant people doing amazing things at the edge of survival. Their thought was generally like "it's just around the corner", or in other words "I'm too stubborn to quit/die here" (The Revenant movie is an example). The point I'm thinking is, you're still here, not talking about suicide thoughts, but HERE as talking in SS.ORG about yourself. This means you're already fighting back, you WANT to overcome your difficulties. GRAB THIS POSTURE, don't let it go. Your WILL is everything in the process. As soon as you decide you WILL or you WON'T, the game is already laid down to you.

As far as psiche goes, I'm in the martial arts line of thought, which is... Difficulties are just that, obstacles that we have to learn to overcome, either coming from within or from somewhere else. Since depression is a "self grown one", it means one has to dive deep into the soul and deal with it. The problem is what to deal with when one finds nothing apparently "wrong" when searching. Again, I'm no health professional, so take these words with lots of seasoning, however allow me to lay down some ideas. Warning, long rumbling text ahead.

In order to "permanently" solve your quest, you must understand and face what triggers those depressive feelings. Questions like what, when and why are to be answered but may apear impossible at the start. So, I'm going on the opposite direction now, don't fight the feeling, accept that it exists and lives within you, that it defines you in a certain way but it ain't you. Acceptance is probably the first step of not fighting it and the path to a healthy cure. Acceptance opens the door to contemplation, because you became a spectator of yourself, and as so, you are shown the surroundings of the previously clouded triggers. You identify the triggers there, contemplating yourself in the dark of the depression, accepting that it is part of you. The next step is to find a pattern on those triggers, and believe me, they aren't random, though may seam like so. This may take as much as seconds or years to find, it is dependent on how committed you are on your inner contemplation and on your sharpness into finding connections between things (solving puzzles is a nice exercise for this). When a pattern is found, and I'm sure you'll find it/them, don't rush, don't fight, keep contemplating the moment for the questions shall be answered. Don't try to find outside causes nor to blame this or that, for that is dealing in the past and you already know what it is like. The purpose on knowing the answers is to be brave enough to step out of the circle that keeps feeding back, and restart your life/soul/body-mind thing. Once you have identified triggers, causes and timings, you can avoid them and let them pass besides you without much harm at first, but latter on, without even a scratch. This is what happens in martial arts training since one learns the process of a fight. The purpose is not being able to knock down the opponent, but to not having to do so because it all vanishes at the sight/thought of you. Sure, in the meantime, one will have to learn how to KO the opponent, but also the responsibility on doing so. Life is not a cage fight and if you knock someone out on the streets, you'll get hit by the justice department. Same thing with your mind/soul/depression, if you fight it, it will fight back harder, so don't, contemplate. When in a real fight, one is contemplating the other, he will win the fight. That can have lots of different overcomes and different interpretations, but because he was not with the intention to harm, he will win over the other. I'm not the first to say this, Bruce Lee expressed this on the Enter the Dragon movie in an inicial scene at the boat that takes him to the island. The scene goes like he is challenged to a fight in a provocative way and he deals with that without even laying a punch or a kick (go see the movie, it is worth your time). So, to sum all this rumbling up, take your approach with depression like the "the art of not fighting as THE fight".

Martial arts can be rewarding in many ways. But they aren't the path until you find them to be so, and not all teachers are on this frequency. Competitions is not helpful in your situation (imo). If you're in this mood, I'd suggest something like TaiChi, Yin Kung Fu styles or Aikido.

On a side note, have you passed by the meditation thread already?

I think, contrary to what others may say, that the human mind needs a daily challenge, something new every day. I think that it is a human basic need, as much as air, food and sleep. Pay attention to it.

I hope these words find some echo within your needs, even a small one will suffice for me. If not, there is no problem whatsoever, this isn't for everyone, not because difficulty BS, but only because some do not feel things like this, which is OK as long as we respect each others. My purpose here was to share one point of view, not the only one. You'll make your own synthesis out of all this.

Last words, do not contain, express yourself, let it go and contemplate.

Sorry, last minute edit: just found this meme that I think illustrates my point of view:

 

[Discoqueen]

Forcing your mind into something (expecially new things) is probably the worst thing you can do right now.
A synergistic medical and psychic therapy should help you regain the will to do the things you once enjoyed.
Working on your inner self it's hard when the problem lies right there and getting too close to the source can be detrimental when mind is vulnerable.
I don't know if anhedonia is fueling the depression leading you towards suicidal ideation or it's depression that is causing anhedonia (I've no medical preparation at all).
In any case if your a getting a treatment you're putting yourself on track for a succesful recovery.

Thank you for the insight, you are very right about what you’re saying, I think. For awhile therapy and meds didn’t do much but at least now there is a shape to everything.

OP, have you started looking into treatments at all?

Yes, I’ve been in therapy the last two years consistently (my reporte w this therapist goes back 8 years) and I have a psychiatric nurse practitioner handeling meds. I kinda posted because it’s been a very slow motion towards being functional again.

Hell, it's something that I realized as I was writing it that *I* need to do.

Music's important. I need to remind myself how important more often, so I don't lose sight of that.

For a long time, I couldn’t even listen to music because it was too over stimulating, so it’d make me anxious or I’d just not like it because I knew I loved the album but I felt no response to it so listening was a reminder I couldn’t feel. Now I can listen to music again and it is amazing Melodic Death Metal \m/

I'm a bit late to this thread I think, but the very first thing I see when starting at post #1 is this. I think this is a terrible point to start at- the sort of romanticism of depression that suggests it's coupled with artistry and expression- suggesting that "healthy" people aren't expressive, or that musicians and artists are driven by psychological issues.

In the case that you (not you specifically, but the generic "you") have a legitimate issue to work through, one of the more productive things I think one could do is to decouple the reality of the situation from the romanticism surrounding it- being clinically depressed doesn't make one "deep" or artistic or able to be more meaningfully expressive or anything like that.

I don't mean that to say that a creative outlet can't be therapeutic, but there there isn't any direct connection between playing an instrument and mental health. Some people play guitar more when they're depressed or in poor spirits or whatever else have you, and others do the opposite and play less.

I’m sorry, you’re right. I really didn’t intend for the statement to mean much. The musicians I know are sick with mental health issues or physical ailments, so I was really just thinking about that.
Actually, Major Depressive Disorder is linked to a diminished ability to be creative. Bipolar depression is actually linked to an increase in creativity (both compared to two control groups of people who were mentally healthy.) But that’s neither here nor there, I just mean to say that I do understand what you’re saying , and believe me, I’m not that basic as to believe healthy people can’t be creative and sick people are the most creative. The anxiety and depression started when I was 9 and I am 27, so I take for granted how much of a normal thing it is for me. Some people actually don’t think depression is that serious of a condition sometimes, so it’s interesting how all of these stigmas float around in different communities of people. So, I feel silly for having perpetuated one.

 

[Discoqueen]

I blew up mentally in a big way when I lost my partner nearly 4 years ago (4 years will be in July this year). Quit work, quit studying, quit sport, everything. Could not function. Went through a stack of different counselors and psychologists. I never ended up on medication because I refused to, mainly because I was scared of how it would change me. In hindsight, I probably should have at least considered it or tried it out because I was rather unhinged and suicidal.

I'm lucky enough to have two amazing friends who would put up with me ringing them at 2AM in the morning, sobbing down the line and they'd just listen to whatever I had to vent or if I was being particularly stupid, they'd talk me out of doing something I regret or worse. They kept me together for long enough for me to be able to develop the strength to keep myself together. Still have the occasional day where everything is complete hell and too much, but I'm able to grit my own teeth and tell myself I can pull through.

I remember when my partner died I refused to play guitar for 6 months. The only guitar I owned at that point was the one she had given me for my birthday 3 years earlier so I'd just burst into tears even when I'd just so much as look at the case. Eventually I was in a guitar store and purchased another guitar to play. Took a long while before I could even open the case of the guitar she gave me, let alone play it. I think I played it 5-6 times in the last 2-3 years. It's only in the last month I've taking it into the local guitar tech to be properly set up as I'm ready to start playing it full time again.

These days I make sure I do 45-60 minutes of scales every morning and evening, just as a ritualistic way to wake up of a morning and wind down after work in the evening. It doesn't feel like I'm forcing it because I've done it for the last 2 years now, it's pretty much like having a shower or a cup of coffee, it's that routine I don't think about it. Sometimes there will be weeks on end where that's all I'll do without actually playing a song or writing something. But it keeps everything sharp for when I'm really feeling it and stops that depressed feeling that occurs when you haven't played in ages and miss the standard of playing you once were at.

I can't say things get 'better' because it doesn't feel like the right word, however one's ability to deal with shit certainly improves over time.

I’m really sorry to hear about your loss and subsequent struggle :/ I’m happy you made it through to the other side. Unfortunately people like to rail on meds a lot, so I avoided meds for too long. And I know what you mean about having friends who sustain you long enough till you can build the strength.

One of the hardest truths about depression is exactly what you’re saying, I think. Its not about things getting easier, it’s about you getting better at coping. Thank you for sharing, that was really helpful to read and I think maybe I will try to start running scales a few times a day

 

[Vyn]

I’m really sorry to hear about your loss and subsequent struggle :/ I’m happy you made it through to the other side. Unfortunately people like to rail on meds a lot, so I avoided meds for too long. And I know what you mean about having friends who sustain you long enough till you can build the strength.

One of the hardest truths about depression is exactly what you’re saying, I think. Its not about things getting easier, it’s about you getting better at coping. Thank you for sharing, that was really helpful to read and I think maybe I will try to start running scales a few times a day

Your welcome I think that's one of the things as well, the more you talk about it, the more comfortable you end up being with depression because it's out there, you don't feel like you have to hide anything. Acceptance is a huge part of it I think.

 

[Discoqueen]

Your welcome I think that's one of the things as well, the more you talk about it, the more comfortable you end up being with depression because it's out there, you don't feel like you have to hide anything. Acceptance is a huge part of it I think.

It’s a tough pill to swallow, that’s for sure. I thought I was done with depression a couple years ago, but it crept back in so at least this time around I know a lot about it and how to go about handeling it. So haha, I’m done hiding things and I don’t feel embarrassed or ashamed about it any more and stuff. I think you’re right, acceptance is really important in many ways.

 

[Discoqueen]

@Discoqueen Great accomplishments come by mainly by our focus on the things that are really important. A great accomplishment isn't the same for everyone, to some, opening the eyes every day could be thought as so, to others is only conquering the world is enough. It is all about scaling things and get them in perspective. History is full of stories of insignificant people doing amazing things at the edge of survival. Their thought was generally like "it's just around the corner", or in other words "I'm too stubborn to quit/die here" (The Revenant movie is an example). The point I'm thinking is, you're still here, not talking about suicide thoughts, but HERE as talking in SS.ORG about yourself. This means you're already fighting back, you WANT to overcome your difficulties. GRAB THIS POSTURE, don't let it go. Your WILL is everything in the process. As soon as you decide you WILL or you WON'T, the game is already laid down to you.

As far as psiche goes, I'm in the martial arts line of thought, which is... Difficulties are just that, obstacles that we have to learn to overcome, either coming from within or from somewhere else. Since depression is a "self grown one", it means one has to dive deep into the soul and deal with it. The problem is what to deal with when one finds nothing apparently "wrong" when searching. Again, I'm no health professional, so take these words with lots of seasoning, however allow me to lay down some ideas. Warning, long rumbling text ahead.

In order to "permanently" solve your quest, you must understand and face what triggers those depressive feelings. Questions like what, when and why are to be answered but may apear impossible at the start. So, I'm going on the opposite direction now, don't fight the feeling, accept that it exists and lives within you, that it defines you in a certain way but it ain't you. Acceptance is probably the first step of not fighting it and the path to a healthy cure. Acceptance opens the door to contemplation, because you became a spectator of yourself, and as so, you are shown the surroundings of the previously clouded triggers. You identify the triggers there, contemplating yourself in the dark of the depression, accepting that it is part of you. The next step is to find a pattern on those triggers, and believe me, they aren't random, though may seam like so. This may take as much as seconds or years to find, it is dependent on how committed you are on your inner contemplation and on your sharpness into finding connections between things (solving puzzles is a nice exercise for this). When a pattern is found, and I'm sure you'll find it/them, don't rush, don't fight, keep contemplating the moment for the questions shall be answered. Don't try to find outside causes nor to blame this or that, for that is dealing in the past and you already know what it is like. The purpose on knowing the answers is to be brave enough to step out of the circle that keeps feeding back, and restart your life/soul/body-mind thing. Once you have identified triggers, causes and timings, you can avoid them and let them pass besides you without much harm at first, but latter on, without even a scratch. This is what happens in martial arts training since one learns the process of a fight. The purpose is not being able to knock down the opponent, but to not having to do so because it all vanishes at the sight/thought of you. Sure, in the meantime, one will have to learn how to KO the opponent, but also the responsibility on doing so. Life is not a cage fight and if you knock someone out on the streets, you'll get hit by the justice department. Same thing with your mind/soul/depression, if you fight it, it will fight back harder, so don't, contemplate. When in a real fight, one is contemplating the other, he will win the fight. That can have lots of different overcomes and different interpretations, but because he was not with the intention to harm, he will win over the other. I'm not the first to say this, Bruce Lee expressed this on the Enter the Dragon movie in an inicial scene at the boat that takes him to the island. The scene goes like he is challenged to a fight in a provocative way and he deals with that without even laying a punch or a kick (go see the movie, it is worth your time). So, to sum all this rumbling up, take your approach with depression like the "the art of not fighting as THE fight".

Martial arts can be rewarding in many ways. But they aren't the path until you find them to be so, and not all teachers are on this frequency. Competitions is not helpful in your situation (imo). If you're in this mood, I'd suggest something like TaiChi, Yin Kung Fu styles or Aikido.

On a side note, have you passed by the meditation thread already?

I think, contrary to what others may say, that the human mind needs a daily challenge, something new every day. I think that it is a human basic need, as much as air, food and sleep. Pay attention to it.

I hope these words find some echo within your needs, even a small one will suffice for me. If not, there is no problem whatsoever, this isn't for everyone, not because difficulty BS, but only because some do not feel things like this, which is OK as long as we respect each others. My purpose here was to share one point of view, not the only one. You'll make your own synthesis out of all this.

Last words, do not contain, express yourself, let it go and contemplate.

Sorry, last minute edit: just found this meme that I think illustrates my point of view:

I was talking to a friend awhile back and we were talking about why we hadn’t just given up completely even though at times there was no light at the end of the tunnel (rather it was to far away to see) and it really comes down to saying “fuck you” to the illness sometimes, and that’s all you have left— so that resonates *Im too stubborn to quit/die* That was really motivational thank you.

I don’t think I can respond to all of that, but I have read it through five times ha, so I am thinking about everything you said, and I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your thoughts.

I do want to say that when it comes to illness, you only have so much grit at the end of the day, and what you do when your resilience is broken is kind of what determines which way you’ll go with the illness. The idea of standing still, or contemplating I have called batoning down the hatches lol... stopping and not fighting but this stillness is a defense. It’s the only way to survive the grind I think. When you say “as soon as you decide you will or you won’t” that is very encouraging because I’ve definitely kinda endured the worst of it.
Even though I can’t find something new every day— I do appreciate the sentiment and the advice to be open to expression and be thoughtful. Thank you

 

[odibrom]

You don't have to respond to any of my rumblings, I feel honored for you taking the time to read those... 5 times! Thank you. As @Vyn said and somehow I tried to, acceptance is the first step, but/and contemplation is key, for every thing. Contemplation is not "having to do" things but to "be" with them.

Take that Enter the Dragon movie scene as an example, depression is something provocative to your will, that you don't "have to fight". Fight the need to fight depression and let go. Express yourself and let go. "One must learn to let go of things he/she fears to loose"... (I think this is a quote from Yoda or Obiwan...). Let yourself go...?...

Best wishes and god speed!

 

[budda]

Best of luck to you, OP.

 

[TedEH]

Some people actually don’t think depression is that serious of a condition sometimes

Realistically, I tend to fall of the side of skepticism. Not in the sense that I don't think clinical depression is a real thing, but more that I think people like to incorrectly self-diagnose (treating their bad days like it's an illness), or to take their diagnosis as a crutch (it's not My Fault, doctor says I have the Depression(tm) and Anxiety(tm), so that means I don't have to deal with anything, and everyone has to accommodate me). I'm well aware that there are people with legitimate disorders out there, and I feel for those people. But legitimate or not, I don't accept that identifying a struggle negates personal responsibility.

My very unprofessional opinion (and one that I'm sure lots of people will strongly disagree with) is that depression and anxiety are not a "you have it or not" situation, so much as everyone experiences it, but not everyone is equally well equipped to handle it- for reasons that are as varied as anything could be. It leaves the line very blurry between "real issues" and people just having frequent bad days (which I'd argue are just as real a problem) - when you consider that you can call something a disorder as soon as it has any significant impact on your otherwise healthy/normal life.

So when someone says something like "just deal with it" or "just put yourself in a better headspace and move on" or whatever else have you, or "just go for a walk" - I get why it sounds offensive, but for some people that IS actually the solution, given that the average person is not far enough over that line as to need medical attention for it. For the person who sits in that blurry area of just having consistently poor mood and outlook, or a person who has just a very "meh" life that occasionally dips into depressing territory- the kind of depression that people who have it worse would get offended by calling it depression in the first place - the kind of thing you could say "yeah, we've all been there" - I can understand why someone wouldn't want to admit it, but the solution CAN be something very simple in some of those cases. And I have zero doubts that some diagnoses are exaggerated or wrong. And again, I'm not saying that some very serious and legitimate cases of depression don't exist - but I think we do a poor job of identifying these cases. And that makes sense- it's incredibly challenging to gauge something as subjective as the experience of depression.

I go through long (two to three months or more) periods of what I think a lot of people would call depression - just long drags of time where my mood stays consistently negative, nothing is fun, the slightest thing pisses me off, nothing gets done, my work suffers for it, my hygiene suffers for it, I don't want to be social, people start asking what's wrong, etc. I refuse to call it depression in that sense though. Not in the "I have a problem so deal with me" kind of way. Because I am still responsible for my actions and choices during those times. And part of breaking out of those slumps very often involves actively deciding "I need to be in a better mood" and taking steps to correct whatever is holding me back. And I fully embrace the therapeutic value of music, and long walks, and carefully balanced amounts of socializing, etc. Those are times where you learn the value of taking care of yourself, because I think for some (or for at least myself), the problem comes down to not taking care of yourself.

Didn't mean to ramble on - just kind of went into train of thought mode. Because I get so annoyed with people who refuse to take personal responsibility. It's not that I don't understand, or don't think people's issues are serious. But (and I hate saying this) I've been there. I was once the anti-social, super overweight, smelly kid who was always "depressed" and convinced it was the world against me. It was not the worlds fault I over-ate. It wasn't the worlds fault that I neglected my hygiene. It was not the worlds fault that I shut myself inside to play video games instead of socializing. Those were all my own fault, and I had to own that, just as everyone else has to own their own issues.

None of this is a criticism of anyone here- I'm more thinking of people I know "in the real world". But I wanted on some level to address the "you seem like you don't think depression is real" bit.

 

[odibrom]

(...) "I need to be in a better mood" and taking steps to correct whatever is holding me back.(...)
(...) It was not the worlds fault (...)

All of this can be read as having a deeper consciousness on the world-to-self-to-world relation, which is in a way what I'm talking about in my 2 previous posts. Martial arts are super on teaching this kind of posture, because not only they teach us how to have a better posture and strength, but specially how to deal with "the other", to understand what fights are worthy to fight for and that, in the end, there is no fight at all.

Depression, as a problem, can not be resolved as a generic problem, because then another problem will rise as the Hydra (that multiheaded dragon to whom two more are born if you cut one of). Depression must be dissolved with something much stronger: the WILL. When one thinks that he/she is depressed, depression is right around the corner if not on one's lap already, ready to be nurtured into deeper and heavier feelings. However, when the WILL takes command, everything around it gets sorted out. It's like when we have a flu, first we are down and feel ill, then when we don't feel strong enough, we go to the doctor or something, however, we only get better when we say "I've had enough of this" (that's when the meds get to kick in)...

If one is stubborn enough to still be here talking, you're just a "mind click" away from getting out of the hole. One's WILL is everything...