Design image of Kalium Rim 60" scale upright electric bass

[ixlramp]

Kalium Rim
60" scale
Lowest possible open note pitch F#00 (11.5Hz)

The instrument is currently being prototyped.
This image was posted on Kalium's Facebook page, so sharing it here for those not on Facebook.
Kalium Music website https://kaliummusic.com/

 

[Crungy]

I wonder what's out there to amplify that low of a fundamental. I remember Accu Groove had some stuff that could go low but I don't believe it was that low.

 

[CanserDYI]

I want one.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I look forward to the cellphone recordings.

 

[Hollowway]

Is there a thread on this already? Or maybe I saw it on FB.

Either way, this is cool, and I want one.

And there are no speakers that can produce that fundamental well. But that’s ok, because humans can’t hear it anyway. It’ll still sound low, because of the fundamentals, though. A Greenboy cab or a Mike Arnopol cab would be the best bet to produce the lowest frequencies, though.

 

[Hollowway]

@Winspear wanna get one with me, throw a couple of strap buttons on, and play it horizontally, lol? Not sure my arms are long enough, but I’ve never played an upright.

 

[Andii]

I wonder what's out there to amplify that low of a fundamental. I remember Accu Groove had some stuff that could go low but I don't believe it was that low.

While that's a very valid concern, and the answer is absolutely not... there is another issue that is even worse:

Human hearing only goes down to 20hz.

 

[Riverview]

Isn't Kalium notorious for horrible customer service ? I've heard tons of complaints , from getting actual instruments to not getting a pack of strings sent .

 

[Crungy]

While that's a very valid concern, and the answer is absolutely not... there is another issue that is even worse:

Human hearing only goes down to 20hz.

Right, I understand the human ear cannot hear it but was wondering if a speaker existed to reproduce the fundamental. It's still a frequency that can me measured.

 

[Andii]

Right, I understand the human ear cannot hear it but was wondering if a speaker existed to reproduce the fundamental. It's still a frequency that can me measured.

I don't think so. Even massive high performance subwoofers don't go there. Most massive 18in high performance subwoofers start rolling off just below the audible 20hz. Lowest spec I've seen on high end($2,000-$3,000+)prebuilt subwoofers is maybe 16 or 18hz.

I built a subwoofer with the 18in. Dayton audio reference HO that I run on 1,000W RMS and it is rated to 18hz. When I feed it extremely low tones outside of the hearing range I can watch it's long excursion, but nothing is audible except artfacts. If it was capable of producing a measurable wave vs just doing the movement, it would be indistinguishable from what it does do anyway.


Here are some examples of some other massive beast subwoofer drivers(that do not go to 10hz):
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-UM18-22-18-Ultimax-DVC-Subwoofer-2-ohms-Per-Co-295-518

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...ion-Subwoofer-with-5-Voice-Coil-4-Ohm-295-054

 

[Hollowway]

Yeah, even the Kalium Tru-sub stuff only goes down to 20Hz.

But on this subject, why is it difficult to make a speaker deliver lower notes? I would think it would be easier to do that than high pitched frequencies, because it’s so few cycles per second. Anyone know why it’s hard to do?

edit: given that creating low oscillations shouldn’t be super difficult, this is a novel approach - it’s a fan, lol. How cool would it be to have your cab with your sub fan on top?

https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/worlds-most-amazing-subwoofer-has-no-woofer/

 

[Andii]

Ehhh I actually just looked at some measurements of my some subwoofers and it turns out I'm wrong. My own subwoofer and some of the other BIG ones do look like they make measurable sound at 10hz, just at a rolloff. Good FR ratings stop when the rolloff hits -3db below the rest of the range.

 

[Andii]

Yeah, even the Kalium Tru-sub stuff only goes down to 20Hz.

But on this subject, why is it difficult to make a speaker deliver lower notes? I would think it would be easier to do that than high pitched frequencies, because it’s so few cycles per second. Anyone know why it’s hard to do?

edit: given that creating low oscillations shouldn’t be super difficult, this is a novel approach - it’s a fan, lol. How cool would it be to have your cab with your sub fan on top?

https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/worlds-most-amazing-subwoofer-has-no-woofer/

It's not difficult. Just expensive. It takes a serious heavy motor and a lot of power. The super low notes need comically large EVERYTHING. The cost of the materials in each part of it is large and the sheer mass is inconvenient to ship across the ocean and to the end user. Because of that, typical home theater stuff is pretty wimpy and also most sound reinforcement subwoofers at music venues aren't even made to make sub bass so much as just bass to fill out the sound.

I've played with so much subwoofer stuff and built my own as an enthusiast of audio and it's truly interesting stuff. But basically it's not hard, just expensive.

As for 10hz, solid within -3db FR subs aren't out there, because there isn't a demand for big expensive heavy massive devices that do something that humans can't even detect lol.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Isn't Kalium notorious for horrible customer service ? I've heard tons of complaints , from getting actual instruments to not getting a pack of strings sent .

I hadn't heard of instruments not being delivered, but pretty much everything else checks out. The owner can be very abrasive to deal with as well.

I don't think they're scammers or thieves or anything, they just never seem to have their shit together. If they put even an ounce of the thought and execution of delivering their product as they do making it they'd be unstoppable.

 

[bostjan]

Is it fretted?!

This is insane and I must have it! Then I must tune it up to standard.

 

[ixlramp]

Winspear wanna get one with me, throw a couple of strap buttons on, and play it horizontally, lol?

But related to that, Skip (of Kalium) has stated this instrument will be designed to be playable on a strap at a non-vertical angle.

Is it fretted?!

As far as i remember, it will be fretted and have a standard bridge radius, so not bowable (despite the bow-cutouts of the design).

Kalium have been planning this instrument for many years. Apparently one problem encountered is winding the strings for it, but Skip has stated he is confident he can solve that problem.
Skip has stated that reaching lower pitches is not the only intention, he is equally interested in the effect of the scale on the tone of moderately low pitches.

As mentioned above, it is unnecessary in terms of audible tone to reproduce the fundamental or even the 2nd harmonic of pitches like F#00, the higher and more audible harmonics carry the note definition.
The lower an instrument goes, the more unnecessary the lowest harmonics become.
I suspect a normal sub-woofer setup would be sufficient, perhaps with a high pass filter to remove the unnecessary and potentially problematic lower frequencies.