Digital vs. reactive loadbox opinions

[Backsnack]

The best way to look at it is a load box is all or nothing, in most cases. The Suhr RL IR is the best here right now. The Fryette PS2 has variable volume, and the reason why it's such a good attenuator is that it's not really an attenuator. It's a great reactive load coupled with a tube power amp reamping it. Your amp is 100% loaded down to line level when using it, and then amplified up again with teh internal amp. Fantastic design, something the new Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander does as well.

So I did some research on this. Looks like a very useful piece of gear.

Would it be a bad idea to use the Fryette PS2 as a tube power amp for a couple of preamp pedals instead of using it like an attenuator for a head? Or would that effectively defeat the purpose of what it's designed to do? Or, would I be better served with a traditional separate power amp in that case? (My thought is the PS2 would do a good job of providing good sound quality at low volumes even if it's used as a traditional power amp, with a bonus effects loop!)

My thought process here is it that could give me a more modular approach with my sound, since it has some voicing options. In case I decided to get a big beefy head at some point, then I could continue to use it as an attenuator.

Reading this thread about the PS2 over at TGP was ... interesting.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...ew-for-those-with-healthy-skepticism.1804585/

 

[USMarine75]

Grab a 5150, skip the attenuator, have a blast .

^ exactly this!

What amp are you looking to run? Anything modern is preamp distortion not power tube, so you can play as low as possible with no effect.

The attenuator is only if you are running something like a Fender Tweed that needs volume to get dirt, because it is power tube distortion and/or doesn't have a post master volume.

I have tons of big glass amps and none of them need an attenuator. I used to play my FB100 and 5150s all the time in an apartment at night and never had complaints. Never woke my babies either. Now my 410 Bassman is a different story... that thing doesn't sound good until it's at a 6 which is just painful for a "40w" amp... so an attenuator was a must. Luckily, my Tone King Sky King has 2 built in attenuators.

The only amp I have ever heard (and own) that needed an attenuator is my Budda SD80. It has no quiet mode. The lowest setting (~0.5) it has equals about a 2 on my 5150s. And at a 4...

(Glad the PS2 got some good reviews. I like mine, but I mainly use it as a 50w pedal amp with the Diezel Zerrer clean as a preamp in front, since I have the Weber Mass III for the Budda now. Maybe I'll A/B them since I brought both with me)

 

[Backsnack]

^ exactly this!

What amp are you looking to run? Anything modern is preamp distortion not power tube, so you can play as low as possible with no effect.

The attenuator is only if you are running something like a Fender Tweed that needs volume to get dirt, because it is power tube distortion and/or doesn't have a post master volume.

I have tons of big glass amps and none of them need an attenuator. I used to play my FB100 and 5150s all the time in an apartment at night and never had complaints. Never woke my babies either. Now my 410 Bassman is a different story... that thing doesn't sound good until it's at a 6 which is just painful for a "40w" amp... so an attenuator was a must. Luckily, my Tone King Sky King has 2 built in attenuators.

The only amp I have ever heard (and own) that needed an attenuator is my Budda SD80. It has no quiet mode. The lowest setting (~0.5) it has equals about a 2 on my 5150s. And at a 4...

(Glad the PS2 got some good reviews. I like mine, but I mainly use it as a 50w pedal amp with the Diezel Zerrer clean as a preamp in front, since I have the Weber Mass III for the Budda now. Maybe I'll A/B them since I brought both with me)

Good to know regarding the focus on preamp distortion. Though I still wonder if you can get some extra power amp coloration (maybe not "brown sound," but something extra) if you can push the power tubes a little harder a lower volumes?

Either way, I'm dreaming of owning a Super Kraken. 100 watts just seems like a lot to play at home, and most Victory amps seem to have a reputation for being rather loud.

Interesting that you're using the PS-2 as a pedal power amp. Do you find you get some noticeable control over the sound with the presence and depth knobs? I'd be interested to hear your opinions on A/B'ing it with the Weber.

 

[USMarine75]

Good to know regarding the focus on preamp distortion. Though I still wonder if you can get some extra power amp coloration (maybe not "brown sound," but something extra) if you can push the power tubes a little harder a lower volumes?

Definitely! You'd have to be at a power amp volume probably 6+ minimum to even begin hearing the difference. You will hear difference more so in the cranked attenuated clean channel between 6L6, EL34, KT77, KT88 etc because of the overall character and breakup volume. With the increased power tube volume you will get more sag and with the preamp dirt into that, some clipping which equals further sag, therefore sweet sounding compression... but every attenuator out there messes with the tone, so you end up losing this (in modern amps, not vintage like Fenders and older Marshall). Most importantly, you lose the cone excursion and sheer volume of air moved at lower volumes - that is the real difference. So really you either need to play your amp balls out loud (A Marshall Plexi will NEVER sound like it is supposed to unless it is at a 6+ and through a 412) or use a smaller power amp section. That is precisely why I prefer 50W amps. You only need more IMO if you need pristine cleans with no breakup (headroom).

Good article:
"An attenuator can only simulate two out of the four components that are involved when you crank up an amp. The four components are #1 preamp tube distortion, #2 power tube distortion, #3 speaker distortion and #4 the physical movement of air that your speakers produce at high volumes. So the two components missing are speaker distortion and the physical movement of air and these are VERY BIG components! Some attenuators have built in EQ to help modify the tone but if you are looking to get the exact tone and feel of your amp at higher volumes, you can't get all the way there from here... Think about your car stereo and how the loudness button works, when you turn down the volume you loose that full sound and there is no punch to the music, the manufacturers know this so for lower volumes they give you the "loudness" button which miraculously brings back the fullness of the music by boosting the low frequencies. An attenuator drops your volume but does not discriminate when it comes to frequencies and has no loudness button. Ted Weber took his Mass Lite units a step further incorporating dual controls for Low/Mid and Mid/High. This helps quite a bit but if you want to get more of a full sound at lower volumes you will need to run parametric or at least a ten band EQ to get anywhere close and you will find a lot missing in the 60 to 140 cycle range. The harder you work a speaker the better it sounds until you reach the point where the voice coil is out of travel so players using a 4/12 cab will find that when attenuated down to a low volume their sound will be particularly thin. If you want a better sound at lower volumes try running a single 12 where you can work the speaker a little, this will make a lot of difference over using four speakers that are barely working.

But when I dig in the amp just doesn't respond like it does without the attenuator, why is this? Yes, because an amp that is dimed out is out of headroom. Headroom refers to how much power the amp has left to hit peaks. If you turn the amp up to say half way and play with a moderate attack and then really dig into a note or slam a chord you will hear a volume difference because your amp has the reserve power or headroom to respond to your increased dynamic. When you're playing thru an attenuator and the amps is dimed out then there is no reserve power or headroom to respond when you dig into a note. The amp is compressed and flattened out."

Either way, I'm dreaming of owning a Super Kraken. 100 watts just seems like a lot to play at home, and most Victory amps seem to have a reputation for being rather loud.

No hands-on experience with Victory here, so I can't say... hopefully it's not like Budda!

Interesting that you're using the PS-2 as a pedal power amp. I'd be interested to hear your opinions on A/B'ing it with the Weber.

Yeah I've only been using the on-board 50w power amp section aspect of it lately. It sounds great because it is so flat that it responds well to whatever preamp you use and then whatever pedals. Sounded best with the Peavey Rockmaster clean in front... I mean legendary spanky good cleans that in their own way rivaled my godly Sky King! For $200 that Rockmaster is THE hidden gem.

 

[Jeff]

So I did some research on this. Looks like a very useful piece of gear.

Would it be a bad idea to use the Fryette PS2 as a tube power amp for a couple of preamp pedals instead of using it like an attenuator for a head? Or would that effectively defeat the purpose of what it's designed to do? Or, would I be better served with a traditional separate power amp in that case? (My thought is the PS2 would do a good job of providing good sound quality at low volumes even if it's used as a traditional power amp, with a bonus effects loop!)

My thought process here is it that could give me a more modular approach with my sound, since it has some voicing options. In case I decided to get a big beefy head at some point, then I could continue to use it as an attenuator.

Reading this thread about the PS2 over at TGP was ... interesting.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...ew-for-those-with-healthy-skepticism.1804585/

Doesn't defeat the purpose at all; in fact, it's another designed purpose for the PS-2. It even has a line-in for this purpose, so you don't have to use the effects return, for preamps that support line level. If you're using a stomp box level pedal, the effects return might work better.

 

[Backsnack]

Doesn't defeat the purpose at all; in fact, it's another designed purpose for the PS-2. It even has a line-in for this purpose, so you don't have to use the effects return, for preamps that support line level. If you're using a stomp box level pedal, the effects return might work better.

There's also a Lo/Hi switch on the preamp input as an adjustment for different levels of signal. The pedals I have in mind for this idea would be the Victory V4 preamp pedals, so I'm guessing the output would be closer to line level, but not quite as low as pedal level.

This is all just a guess, though, because I haven't seen any YT videos or forum posts of people creating this sort of setup.

 

[Jeff]

There's also a Lo/Hi switch on the preamp input as an adjustment for different levels of signal. The pedals I have in mind for this idea would be the Victory V4 preamp pedals, so I'm guessing the output would be closer to line level, but not quite as low as pedal level.

This is all just a guess, though, because I haven't seen any YT videos or forum posts of people creating this sort of setup.

With the Victory stuff, I'm betting it works really well. Those are full blown preamps, as opposed to a typical amp-in-a-box sort of deal.

 

[laxu]

So I did some research on this. Looks like a very useful piece of gear.

Would it be a bad idea to use the Fryette PS2 as a tube power amp for a couple of preamp pedals instead of using it like an attenuator for a head? Or would that effectively defeat the purpose of what it's designed to do? Or, would I be better served with a traditional separate power amp in that case? (My thought is the PS2 would do a good job of providing good sound quality at low volumes even if it's used as a traditional power amp, with a bonus effects loop!)

My thought process here is it that could give me a more modular approach with my sound, since it has some voicing options. In case I decided to get a big beefy head at some point, then I could continue to use it as an attenuator.

Reading this thread about the PS2 over at TGP was ... interesting.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...ew-for-those-with-healthy-skepticism.1804585/

The PS2 is meant to be clean and neutral and not really contribute much to the sound on its own. It will work, but it won't sound like a traditional guitar tube poweramp. I think it's a great unit for running modelers because you can just hook up to the line-in and run full amp sims (poweramp sims included) no problem.

It's not magic though, go too low volume and it won't sound that great either because of the way we hear things at different volumes.