"Diminished" discussion

[bob123]

I was always taught a "diminished" note is simply a note moved flat in a scale.

I was informed today, that a "diminished" note is a flat-flat (whole step down, not a half step).

My beef is that a "diminished chord" is a minor chord with a flat 5th, not a whole step down. I.e., Cdim = C-Eb-Gb, whereas by a "Traditional definition" a "diminished chord" would then become C - Eb- F, no?

If someone can chime in and explain this, Id appreciate it.

 

[djyngwie]

Diminished (when speaking of intervals) is basically the term used when an interval that is already minor (or perfect) is lowered a semitone.

The double flat will happen if the minor or perfect interval already has a flat in it. For instance, an Eb minor chord contains the notes Eb (tonic), G (minor third) and and Bb (perfect fifth). To get a diminshed chord you lower the fifth to get a diminished fifth. But since the perfect fifth, Bb, is already flat, the correct note in the diminished chord would be a double flat: Bbb (enharmonic to A, but Bbb is the correct theoretical note name).

 

[SirMyghin]

A diminished chord is 2 consecutive minor thirds, and contains a diminished 5th (this is likely the reason for calling it a diminished chord). 5ths and 4ths are perfect intervals therefore there is only augmented, diminished, and the perfect interval.

So it is as djyngwie said, a minor or perfect interval lowered a semitone. A diminished interval is very much a contextual thing, much like say, an augmented 6th chord (which is harmonically contains a minor 7th), but the reasolution defines the previous interval (these are sometimes referred to as 'an embellishment of the octave'. Meaning they resolve outwards (the 6+ and root of the chord expand to create an octave, how depends on the inversion).

 

[bob123]

Holy cow Im glad I asked this, you guys explained it so well. So I WASNT "incorrect" in my thinking, I was incorrect in context. Thanks for explaining this to me

 

[MeriTone Music]

I was always taught a "diminished" note is simply a note moved flat in a scale.

I was informed today, that a "diminished" note is a flat-flat (whole step down, not a half step).

My beef is that a "diminished chord" is a minor chord with a flat 5th, not a whole step down. I.e., Cdim = C-Eb-Gb, whereas by a "Traditional definition" a "diminished chord" would then become C - Eb- F, no?

If someone can chime in and explain this, Id appreciate it.

It only takes 1/2 a step to 'diminish' a perfect 5th. However, it does take two 1/2 steps to create a diminished 7th! First it'd go from natural 7th to minor 7th, then from minor 7th to diminished 7th.

diminished triad = 1 b3 b5

diminished 7th chord = 1 b3 b5 bb7

Hope that helps

 

[bondmorkret]

Might have already been mentioned, but the diminished scale is made up of adjacent dim7 chords/arpeggios a semitone apart. Really cool scale!

 

[27duuude]

Major, minor, perfect, augmented, and diminished are all the types of intervals.

4,5 and 8 are perfect intervals that can be diminished or augmented with a half-step

2, 3, 6, and 7 are intervals that will either be major or minor depending on the scale.

Depending on whether they are major or minor determines the distance between their diminished or augmented versions.

A major interval will have to be raised 1/2 step to reach its augmented version, down 1/2 step to reach its minor version and down 1 whole step to reach its diminished version. I'm sure you can infer the rules for minor intervals.

 

[AdamHernandez13]

Diminished (when speaking of intervals) is basically the term used when an interval that is already minor (or perfect) is lowered a semitone.

The double flat will happen if the minor or perfect interval already has a flat in it. For instance, an Eb minor chord contains the notes Eb (tonic), G (minor third) and and Bb (perfect fifth). To get a diminshed chord you lower the fifth to get a diminished fifth. But since the perfect fifth, Bb, is already flat, the correct note in the diminished chord would be a double flat: Bbb (enharmonic to A, but Bbb is the correct theoretical note name).

The minor triad is actually Eb Gb Bb, with the diminished being Eb Gb Bbb

 

[djyngwie]

The minor triad is actually Eb Gb Bb, with the diminished being Eb Gb Bbb

D'oh! My bad.