Does it ever make sense to BOTH mic an amp AND use its direct out?

[BaylorPRSer]

Hi there.

I think I've got a handle on the pros and cons of micing an amp vs going direct out, but what is the reason not to just do BOTH? Use the direct output into the mixer, and stick a mic up to it, and blend the two?

Got a gig coming up, and we are renting some equipment. I unfortunately don't have the means to test this out on my own at present.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Only if the engineer really has a mic setup they like.

 

[Baelzebeard]

Does your direct out have a cabinet sim?

If yes sure, mic and send will work fine together. If not, it will probably sound thin and harsh with a cab sim somewhere in the chain before the signal hits a full range speaker.

 

[c7spheres]

I wouldn't do it for your gig without having experience with it.
- Depending on the music and situation it could be ok or not. For example if you're doing a metal show with basically heavy stuff the whole time not a big deal if you get a decent sound you like quickly, which isn't likely with direct.
- If you're using any type of contorolled feedback interaction between amp and speaker then don't do it until you get experience how the amp translates to the direct out. For cleaner gigs like rock jazz etc you're probably good to go but may not like the tone even if audience can't tell the difference.
- Sometime the direct may only be used for monitors or mains etc as well.
- Mixing direct and mic'd are doable iwth good results but a burden to get likeable. Direct seems to reinforce the mids and low end and shrill out the top end ime but is fine through PA.
- For a live show on stage mics I;m a bigger fan of iso boxes or iso barriers. Either the type you thrown in front of a drummer or best case is the padded anvil case type with amp inside, but even with that you're at mercy of the monitors so again, things like controlled feedback can be an issue without time intvested.
- The easiest and safest thing to do until more familiar with it is to go with what's familiar to you like a mic on cab. Then isolation and position are the only issues which can be dealt with easier.

 

[BaylorPRSer]

Yeah, it's actually a Linkin Park Tribute show. We don't know what our guitarist will play through yet. The amps that have been floated will likely have a direct out. We may only have one instrument mic. The bassist will for sure have a direct out.

We may only be able to mic one or the other (the bass amp or the guitar). Think the bass amp will be more likely to sound good going direct.

 

[c7spheres]

Yeah, it's actually a Linkin Park Tribute show. We don't know what our guitarist will play through yet. The amps that have been floated will likely have a direct out. We may only have one instrument mic. The bassist will for sure have a direct out.

We may only be able to mic one or the other (the bass amp or the guitar). Think the bass amp will be more likely to sound good going direct.

It could work. Hopefully the amps sound decent. You can use the pa mixer depending on what it is to make a generic cab sim from a direct signal by roling off the highs and lows around 80-150hz and 5k-7k or so probably using a shelf filter. May the force be with you. lol.

 

[Drew]

Yeah, it's actually a Linkin Park Tribute show. We don't know what our guitarist will play through yet. The amps that have been floated will likely have a direct out. We may only have one instrument mic. The bassist will for sure have a direct out.

We may only be able to mic one or the other (the bass amp or the guitar). Think the bass amp will be more likely to sound good going direct.

So, there's the "ideal" scenario answer, and the "practical" answer. And I think the "practical" answer is the bigger one here.

Do you HAVE to use the guitar direct, as well as mic'd, or can you just mic it? Depending on the amp (basically, whether or not it has a "speaker emulated" out - or I suppose worst case doesn't even have that - vs something that's designed for direct recording and potentially even has a couple pretty good IRs loaded) it might be possible to get a decent tone direct, but more likely than not the deck is going to be stacked against you and you're, at a minimum, going to want to at least lean on the mic even if the emulated out is at least usable.

But, assuming you have a good emulated out, running that with a mic could also cause some phase alignment challenges - the mic will introduce some slight time delay vs the direct out, and that could cause some really ugly phase cancellation through the monitors, though phasing that might be hard to hear against the bleed from having, you know, a loud amp in the room next to you. You'd need to spend some time phase-aligning the mic an the DI (I like the aproach of flipping phase on he mic preamp, then moving around the mic to make it sound as BAD as possible against your other source with the two sources volume-matched (for me, usually a first mic already positioned to a way i like; for you, the DI), then when you've got a truly awful thin fizzy nightmare of a sound, flip the phase alignment back and what you're hearing should be pretty good.

But, this introduces a lot of variables you probably don't need. I'd do one of these two things:

1) Does your direct out sound really good? Use that, no mic.
2) Does it not? Use a mic, no direct out.