Down Tuning a Short Scale??

[TheUnvanquished]

Hey everyone. This is my first post! I'm really excited about it too, as there is no forum more metal Haha!

Anyways, I'm primarily a guitarist but want to get me a bass! I, lately, have been keeping my six string guitars in a tuning that is, essentially, Dadgad dropped down one whole step to Cgcfgc. It gives me the ability to play some really interesting chord voicings, low one finger power chords, and shredding out some lead type stuff isn't too much trouble compared to the more traditional "Drop C" or whatever.

But yeah this post is about a bass. I want a short scale to jam on, and I've been thinking that the new fender pawn shop mustang bass will do the trick. But will it? Because I'm gonna want to put it in CGCF tuning to be able to record with my guitars. Basically what I'm wondering is if anyone out there has had any success with putting a short scale bass (30" scale) into a CGCF tuning? Does it sound ok? What string gauges am I going to want to use to get enough tension?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[MassNecrophagia]

Why does it need to be a short scale?

 

[BIG ND SWEATY]

why not just get a normal scale bass?

 

[karlos]

hey bro

i too am a hell new poster. i think this is number 3?

I was wondering about that too. I would say that with a short scale bass you are likely to get troubles without a setup. Ive seen shortscales tuned to B on youtube and they have been ok from memory. Also rondo music do shortscales in B. Not saying thats evidence that you will be 100% ok, but its looking hopefull. I went with a 35 inch and i found it sick to jam on hey. Es and Bs sound nice.

What you can do is check out Circle K bass strings and go for a nice balanced set. Because you are going for C on a short scale you will need to aim for a higher tension which will be maybe a step or so higher to compensate for the short scale (can someone confirm this please.. im no expert). e.g. balanced C tuning on a 34inch (40.4 pound) = .130inch. So a maybe a 0.142 to .150 inch for good tension.

karl

 

[BillNephew]

You're probably going to need tapered end strings for how low you're going, because all Fender short scales I've tried don't fit standard straight, non-tapered ends. Also, try and get brighter sounding (steel strings or such) so you can keep the definition of the notes somewhat intact, easier said than done.

 

[TheUnvanquished]

I really have two reasons for wanting a short scale. The aesthetic, but also because I have small hands. My longest finger on my left hand, my middle finger, is only 3 inches long. And yeah I just measured it with a measuring tape. Ha.

But yeah I've struggled with big stretches on a 34" scale SR bass that I've got lying around. I can't do it. I really can't physically play a regular scale bass, not the way I would like to anyway. I know it will some effort in getting used to bass from playing guitar all these years, but I've put the time in and my hands just aren't giving me what I want out of them.

And I've put my guitars back in E flat standard. The open tuning is cool but hell I'm not Devin Townsend (even though his makes a C major chord). It makes riffing easy, makes cool chord voicings easy to grab also, but I can't really shred in a dadgad style tuning. It isn't impossible, but it IS a pain in the ass to get used to. Ha.

Will a 30" scale bass handle E flat standard tuning? I hope so.

This is getting frustrating though. Damn my stubby digits! Hahaha...

 

[karlos]

dude I can feel your pain. wish I had spider fingers too hey. but yeah give the low tuning a crack hey. it should be ok with the right gauge strings and the right setup. E flat should be fine for sure.

Man so are you going to buy it?

Im sure theres a table floating around that tells you how well you guitar will intonate at a given scale length for a given tuning? can anyone point me towards it?

 

[InfinityCollision]

^It's a little (actually a lot) more complicated than that since various properties of the string itself will also influence these things, but the basic result is that your ability to intonate the string comes down to how far back you can set the bridge saddle and to an extent how much tension is on the string. Clarity and such is a different matter...

D#0, maybe even D0, should be feasible (without considering tone) just going with the biggest string Circle K offers and shooting for ~40 lbs tension (D0 would be closer to 37 lbs, too light for me on such a thick string). That said I'd probably limit myself to G#0 or above so that I could use a .190 or thinner string and stick to three wraps and fewer.

 

[MassNecrophagia]

I really have two reasons for wanting a short scale. The aesthetic, but also because I have small hands. My longest finger on my left hand, my middle finger, is only 3 inches long. And yeah I just measured it with a measuring tape. Ha.

But yeah I've struggled with big stretches on a 34" scale SR bass that I've got lying around. I can't do it. I really can't physically play a regular scale bass, not the way I would like to anyway. I know it will some effort in getting used to bass from playing guitar all these years, but I've put the time in and my hands just aren't giving me what I want out of them.

And I've put my guitars back in E flat standard. The open tuning is cool but hell I'm not Devin Townsend (even though his makes a C major chord). It makes riffing easy, makes cool chord voicings easy to grab also, but I can't really shred in a dadgad style tuning. It isn't impossible, but it IS a pain in the ass to get used to. Ha.

Will a 30" scale bass handle E flat standard tuning? I hope so.

This is getting frustrating though. Damn my stubby digits! Hahaha...

The problem is that you don't play bass the same way you play a guitar. Big stretches mean nothing, because your hand doesn't need to be anchored in order to play a chord. Your fingers aren't much smaller than mine and I manage a 6 string, 35" scale bass absolutely fine. You could probably pick up an SR506 used for cheaper than the 30", as well, and you'd completely avoid any of these problems.

Is going with the 30" really avoiding more problems than it's introducing?

 

[imprinted]

I really have two reasons for wanting a short scale. The aesthetic, but also because I have small hands. My longest finger on my left hand, my middle finger, is only 3 inches long. And yeah I just measured it with a measuring tape. Ha.

Err, you've got the same size hands as I do and I played in a Thrash/Death/Industrial Metal band using a 5 string 35" Scale bass. Harden up Nancy!

 

[Chuck]

I really have two reasons for wanting a short scale. The aesthetic, but also because I have small hands. My longest finger on my left hand, my middle finger, is only 3 inches long. And yeah I just measured it with a measuring tape. Ha.

I think those a pretty average sized hands... My middle fingersfawk are also 3 inches. And as far as I know I have average sized hands.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Can I ask a possibly borderline off topic question?

Might I take a gander at your bass playing technique? Just curious.

Going from guitar to bass I felt like I struggled a bit as well. Even more so when I bumped up to a 35" bass. Your hands really can't quite do the same thing on one as the other although they'll want to based on the familiarity of the layout. But there are a few things I've started to do just because of playing extended scale/range guitars.

A lot of folks put their thumbs in the middle of the back of the neck in a classical pinch style which helps a bit with stretches. I assume coming from guitar you've probably tried this. On bass every now and again I find if I drop my thumb just a hair lower I can sometimes stretch a bit farther if I need to.

I also push my wrist forward a bit more, but not uncomfortably so. Just enough so that I can arch my hand over top of the fretboard the way a pianist would over the keys. This also seems to help me stretch a tad farther and provides a little more agility should I need to move around quickly at any point. I'll often switch back and forth between varying degrees of this approach and other more "relaxed" left hand techniques (not arching so much and just letting my finger rest against the board instead) depending on what I need at the time.

Maybe try giving some of those a go on your SR and see if they work for you?

 

[TheUnvanquished]

Harden up Nancy

And yeah a buddy of mine, who used to take lessons from Victor Wooten's bass tech, Anthony Wellington, kinda helped point out flaws in my technique recently. Thanks everyone. You guys didn't beat me up too bad. You kinda got me in the spirit to dust off my Ibanez SR and give the longer scale neck a shot.

 

[TheEmptyCell]

It may help you to shift the bass over to the right when you're playing. Installing a strap button on the back of the body (basically the opposite side of the bridge) will help do this automatically when you're playing with a strap.

 

[imprinted]

Harden up Nancy

And yeah a buddy of mine, who used to take lessons from Victor Wooten's bass tech, Anthony Wellington, kinda helped point out flaws in my technique recently. Thanks everyone. You guys didn't beat me up too bad. You kinda got me in the spirit to dust off my Ibanez SR and give the longer scale neck a shot.

You won't regret it! Once you've got yourself settled you'll notice that you'll start automatically adjusting from Guitar to Bass and back again.

 

[Konfyouzd]

^This...

I really really didn't think I was going to be down with playing bass at first due to the size and the fact that the strings were ass raping my fingers. After a little while now I'm playing an even bigger bass than I started on (35"--somehow the even larger scale is now more comfortable...?) and still feel like a 28.625" guitar is too big...

 

[r3tr0sp3ct1v3]

Brice HXB-406 3/4 Black Quilt Short Scale - RondoMusic.com

I have been thinking of getting one of these and tuning it up. I think the only way you could get that tuning ona short scale would be to tune up? Correct me if I am wrong