Ebay mess. Advice?

[Randy]

Condensed version of what happened:

I sold my old mini mill on ebay, which I crated to the buyer in an abundance of caution and I paid for insurance.

Buyer received the item and signed for it. It wasn't until two weeks later I received a notification from eBay that the buyer was seeking a refund because 'item didn't match description" and in the pictures they attached they had several pieces of the machine that had clearly been disassembled, they claimed the machine arrived 'broken'. We exchanged messages multiple times in which they admitted they disassembled the machine and if went from "damaged" (they claimed) to unusable box of parts.

I replied that I can't facilitate a full refund for something they totally dismantled and they should have contacted me as soon as they opened the crate if they saw "damage", as I could've files a claim for shipping issues or sent a partial refund for the partially damages item (which I know I didn't do). The insisted the milling machine was 'broken' from overly dense packing paper inside, but they simultaneously claimed small items in the crate were strewn about causing the damage. It made no sense.

Ebay push notified me throughout this process as the complaint proceeded, over the course of a few weeks. It's been silence ever since and I figured they were processing the complaint still.

Check my bank account today and I see the full amount ($700!) taken from my checking account, and I see eBay withdrew the money. I look for any contact from them and lo and behold, I find an messaged tucked in between normal daily crap like your watchlist etc that said we decided in the buyers favor, send them a shipping label to send the item back. If you don't send them a shipping label, we'll charge your account the full refund for the item and they will not be required to return it!

This is from 5 days ago. The process went on for a month+ but they made the decision quietly and only gave me 5 days to respond before they decided you don't get the money or the item. They allow you to file an appeal but the only options were basically the person never sent the item back (which they expected you to pay them to do, and that time had elapsed) or they sent it back damaged (which I couldn't argue because it never came back).

Rotten process. I appealed but their criteria is so narrow and they have got dead to rights after that 5 days, I don't know if it's going to go anywhere.

 

[Randy]

For reference, here's the mill in the crate before it left. It's screwed to the floor and the only small items inside were the plastic case with the CNC shield/drivers and a small box with the bits in it, I don't have pictures of the paper that went inside but it was standard shipping packing paper from the UPS store.

 

[budda]

Jfc.

 

[BlackMastodon]

Fuuuuuck that sucks to hear. This is always the little voice of anxiety when I sell something valuable on eBay, which admittedly has only been a couple times. I don't know how much you can really do aside from showing how you packed it, and maybe take it up with UPS if it was damaged in shipping?

The buyer is scum, and it's shitty that they made it your mess to clean up.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

With all the stories exactly like this of people getting absolutely fleeced on Ebay I'm kinda shocked anyone is still willing to sell there

 

[MaxOfMetal]

With all the stories exactly like this of people getting absolutely fleeced on Ebay I'm kinda shocked anyone is still willing to sell there

Where else could you sell something like this? Throw it on CL for a bunch of offers to trade for old aquariums and car parts to vehicles you don't own?

@Randy, have you tried contacting your bank for a chargeback? They're probably more willing to help than eBay. Granted that comes with its own problems.

Shitty situation and I'm really sorry this happened to you.

 

[Randy]

So early, early, early follow-up.

I called eBay (they make it almost impossible to get a physical person there, everything is automated Q&A) and specifically got the claims department.

Explained the whole thing to the guy, last part I got to was about how the process dragged on so slow and I was getting notifications of every step, then they rendered a judgement and gave me 4 days to comply with no clear notification.

THAT part the guy found interesting because the legality of the judgement process requires an email notification directly from the agent not just an automated alert thing. He pulled up the record and said nope, they never sent you that email which means the entire judgement and charge back was done in error. Said he was going to close my complaint and refund was gonna be on my way in 24/48.

I said alright, so chargeback and now that I have been officially notified, we can go through the appeal process and I can at least get the item back? And he's like no what we just did over the WAS the appeal process, we made the judgement in error which means the money is being returned to you and this entire claim on this item is closed, end of story.

Cautiously optimistic waiting to see if that's what happens.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Fingers crossed it stands and you get the money back and that's it!

 

[Randy]

 

[Thesius]

Damn congrats. I sell a lot on eBay and I've never had eBay side with me as a seller. Rare thing lol

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Love a happy ending.

 

[BlackMastodon]

What a roller coaster of emotions. I'm equally as impressed at the fact that you were able to get the refund and have it work out in your favour as I am that you actually got a hold of a person there to resolve the claim.

As much as I dislike talking to people on the phone and being on hold for long periods of time, automated phone prompts never get you anywhere when it's a non-standard issue like this. Sometimes just gotta talk to a person but businesses that rely on automated systems really do make it nearly impossible.

Glad to hear it worked out for you!

 

[Crungy]

Fuckin hell, glad you got it sorted out.

 

[Hollowway]

Wow, glad it worked out, but it his is why I’m petrified to sell online. Even if you COULD file a damage claim, good luck getting it. I bought a guitar (from Brett Beebe, if anyone remembers the thread) in Feb, and it came with the tip of the HS broken off. I’ve been sending every thing UPS is requesting of us, and they still haven’t cut a check. Everytime I call they ask for something different, give a different excuse, or say they’ll reach out if they need anything else. My take away is that insurance is worthless, because the odds of getting them to pay is slow slim.

 

[Randy]

Thanks everyone for the support and the kind words.

Couple things of note for background and maybe additional info for anyone potentially facing a similar situation.

The mill was packed as you see there, about a 2'x2'x3' wooden crate with the mill bolted to the floor, any loose items were in a small box. I used crumpled packing paper to prevent the box or cords from flying around inside, and the box was also marked with correct side up and the recesses so that you really could only carry the box right-side up. I spent 3 days just building the crate.

I also screenshotted all my settings in UGS and sent them to the buyer. The packing and the info was so that they would receiver the machine AND controller AND power supply all fully assembled and with my settings so they could just plug it in and go. I also wrote several pages of tips on programming the machine, feeds and speeds, things to look out for mechanically when you cut, etc.

Also worth noting, the very first notice I got from the buyer was two weeks after signing for the box (saying they had just opened it that day) asking for a full refund and the machine totally disassembled. They insisted it was "crushed" by the craft paper, but the pictures they sent included things like the Z axis lead screw completely removed from the column and bent, in a way that's literally impossible to do with the machine assembled. The XY table was also broken free from the base completely like the steel machine screws holding it down were sheared off!

Anyway, despite all the unbelievable claims and the fact I was 100% expecting them to lose the case (especially with the pics i took of the box packed and video of the machine working the same day it was packed), I offered her a partial refund to cover the practical damages that I could see happening (like limit switch wire breaking loose etc) and ALSO partial refund covering the parts necessary to put it back together again, along with links to all the parts I used and offered to re-print the 3D printed items I used to assemble it. Basically offered to coach and fund rebuilding the machine for them.

Despite this, they insisted on a 100% full refund claiming the damage to the machine was entirely my fault.

I bring all that up because when I finally got the blow-by-blow of the claim from ebay that basically documents their process and considerations in siding with the buyer, they did NOT include 1.) the buyer admitting they disassembled the machine 2.) my videos of the machine working 3.) my pictures of the machine and the crate 4.) my offer of a partial refund and guidance to get the machine working. It was literally just their first text complaint, my first response, and then a follow-up response from the buyer I never saw. That's all.

The poison pill on the judgement *may* ultimately have been the failure to send me an email of notice, but the conversation with the agent from ebay seemed to indicate he was looking at all that other information that wasn't in the official report. I think the agent had a range of actions they could have taken, the email made it easy to void but the overarching evidence probably played a role in deciding for a full reversal.

READ THIS PART

The way I got a representative, I went to the ebay help page and there's a button to contact them. They take you through some automated bubbles but eventually a bot-controlled chat window opens, you do a quick Q&A and they try to lead you to another article or send a message, just type "agent" and eventually it'll prompt you to confirm your phone number and they'll call you. I actually missed the call, but returned the call and it sent me to the right place. That number appears nowhere on their website, so this is a seemingly exclusive path there.

 

[narad]

As a generally mellow person, there is nothing I've experienced in getting screwed over and -knowing- that I'm in the right, and that any sensible person would agree, but being separated from justice by crazy bureaucratic processes with no transparency or ability to present the case accurately. It's the kind of stuff that makes me want to throw my laptop into a wall. I've got enough anxiety from the first post that I should go walk it off. But glad things appear to be sorting themselves out in the end!

 

[narad]

There's nothing I've experienced that's as frustrating*, I meant to say.

 

[ShredmasterD]

ebay is like divorce court. its totally one sided regardless of the facts and paypal is ebay's lacky.

sorry to hear of someone going through this . I had the same experience and haven't used ebay in years because of it.

 

[Lemonbaby]

With all the stories exactly like this of people getting absolutely fleeced on Ebay I'm kinda shocked anyone is still willing to sell there

That's exactly why I stopped selling anything on eBay. Sold a recording interface, buyer opened a case, eBay withdrew the money, case closed. The only "proof" provided to eBay was a picture showing the interface connected to a notebook. Literally just that.

I hope the whole planet finally stops supporting those motherfuckers, and I'm talking both eBay and Paypal. If someone only accepts Paypal, I don't buy shit.

 

[/wrists]

Sounds like an absolute nightmare, very relieved to get it sorted.