How is this different than any other client base?
Economics of Touring Metal Bands
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Andromalia
Pardon my french
Well, to counter this, it's been some years now but Devin Townsend's merch booth was physical cash only... I had to get out and find an ATM because they wouldn't take VISA. Reeked of VAT fraud or trying to hide merch sales from the venue to me to be honest. That was the tour with Shining and Periphery opening in Europe.
When I go to a show, I want to have fun, not to have to deal with how the band, the management and the venue jockey to get more cash than the other.
Well I have no idea why or how. Historically, merch has always been cash only in the UK. It's only been the last 5 years that I have seen paying by card as an option or the last 1-2 where it's been mandatory. Of course it depends on the venue and of course the merch.
I seem to remember something about the small Card terminals which work in Europe not working in the UK and vice versa, it's a known headache that merch companies have to deal with. This could be as simple as not wanting to invest in a complete infrastructure for a handful of shows rather than fraud
Wiltonauer
SS.org Regular
They could also be doing cash-only to avoid credit card processing fees, which can be significant compared to the gross profit on a merch item. I wonder if you could offset that by charging a bit more, as people might be watching their cash closely but not be as price sensitive if they are pulling out the plastic.
crushingpetal
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Watch the "Bus Invaders" YouTube episode of your favorite touring metal band. Then take a shower.
soul_lip_mike
Contributor
This was me when I saw Periphery open for some shitty band called Dance Gavin Dance.
Cleanliness of showers, quality of catering and availability of power points in the backstage room are the main contributors to a touring musicians mental health, or lack of.
All hail Masquerade in Atlanta.
GunpointMetal
Well-Known Member
The way I see it, if you have to count on "friend credit" from "the scene" to get people to the show, you're doing it wrong. I would hope that my musician friends are too busy worrying about their craft and their shows and their promotion to make a point of showing up to my gig because of the scene or whatever, and I certainly would hope that fellow musician friends wouldn't waste their time and money coming to see my band if they didn't enjoy the music. There's always this notion that you're just supposed to support the scene because...but if a band sucks, they should play to an empty room. Encouraging their sucking isn't helping the scene. If a band can only pull a crowd by making the other bands in town feel guilty about not showing up, or if the only people who show up are other musicians, that's not success or positivity, that's pity and it won't get you to the next town. Some of my favorite people in our scene play in bands that I can't fucking stand, but they're good at what they do, bust their asses, and bring people who are actually fans to shows instead of a bunch of grumpy guitar players who just wanna ogle the pedalboards for the evening. I'll boost their stuff on social media, but I'm not paying for a ticket to see a band making music I don't care about, or skipping a rehearsal to go to a show for a band that just isn't good, because "support the scene" or whatever. Propping up a dead horse isn't good for anyone, and if the horse can run, it doesn't need my help.
crushingpetal
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Entheos said their tour hack was to get a Planet Fitness membership before a tour (something like $10 a month), then go there for showers after a show.
Boofchuck
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That's what we do. Definitely don't have time after every show, but the days we get to go are a god send. We'll spend like 3 hours in there working out, doing yoga, showering, grooming, and rubbing one out lol.
mongey
Well-Known Member
I’m not playing in gigging bands anymore. 2 young kids and I’m in my late 40s. Just couldn’t be bothered with the hassle vs the reward.
I still have past band mates doing it in other bands. They say it’s gotten worse with people at gigs , and it was fucking terrible before. So I can only imagine.
I still have past band mates doing it in other bands. They say it’s gotten worse with people at gigs , and it was fucking terrible before. So I can only imagine.
Pretty much medically/mentally excluded from tours without money it seems haha! I can't sleep in a van as I need a CPAP machine at night, plus have two herniated disks that would leave me largely immobile without a decent bed. Showering anywhere without 100% privacy is a no-no (I can't even use public toilets). Dietary requirements mean I couldn't live off of burgers and other fast food shit for more than a day or two.
Luckily I'm happy playing local gigs (what few there are left) and a few one-offs further afield. That approach got my band a Bloodstock appearance, so had we not gone on hiatus for a while we may well have had more opportunities like that.
Luckily I'm happy playing local gigs (what few there are left) and a few one-offs further afield. That approach got my band a Bloodstock appearance, so had we not gone on hiatus for a while we may well have had more opportunities like that.
sakeido
Contributor
dunno why you put metal in quotes, doesn't get any more metal than getting old, broken down and tired in the process of making yourself financial stable enough to burn your vacation time to play a bunch of gigs at horrible dive bars to 5 people per show!
but yeah the cover band advice is great. The most successful musician I know - as in, him and his band all pay their bills by playing music - are in a long running cover band and have played the same engagement, weekly, at one bar or another for 20+ years now on top of doing private parties, corporate gigs, whatever.
Original music though? you do it for love, not money, because you have a 1 in 15 million chance of making it, and even if you "make it" the band's good years might only last for an album or two.. and even then, the band itself will probably never turn a profit, all your money has to come from shilling crap using the modest soapbox the band gave you, your spotify listener count drops lower and lower and you watch newer bands go blowing past you because somehow not even your old fans want to tune in anymore.. and don't forget the real expense, when you start a band and go all in on it instead of going to school, getting a trade, etc. you will fall way behind in life and maybe never make up that ground
not sure if “fall behind” is the right word. Not everyone wants a wife and kids by 25. What you do lose more often than is financial freedom. You’ll also know how to do more with less though.
I 100% wish I didnt finish school and tried to tour at 20. It would have been more fun
.
I 100% wish I didnt finish school and tried to tour at 20. It would have been more fun
.
sakeido
Contributor
The financial freedom is what I mean. Wife can wait, kids should definitely wait because for quite a while, your life is over while you look after them. Paying a mortgage sucks ass BUT I'm still glad I bought a house just so I can stay in this dumb fuckin market. Housing bubbles aren't a big deal... if you have a house.not sure if “fall behind” is the right word. Not everyone wants a wife and kids by 25. What you do lose more often than is financial freedom. You’ll also know how to do more with less though.
I 100% wish I didnt finish school and tried to tour at 20. It would have been more fun
Come to think of it, it's not even good advice anymore.. young people today have no conceivable path to home ownership. What does "falling behind" even matter? Game's over before you start. So go ahead, be in a band! Form some kind of weird art collective and live in a bus with 20 of your friends... drive up and down the Pacific coast playing shows and sleeping in national parks. Sounds like a great time
Pretty much all the musicians I know that make a living out of it are in cover bands. Most of them tour non-stop during summer and they're pretty much free the rest of the year.
I could have gone that route too, but when pandemic hit all of them had a really hard time, so I opted to stay in a "lower profile" cover band with less gigs per year (so I could manage it with my day job). No regrets.
Honestly, I wouldn't trust my economic stability to a music band.
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Yeah, my most successful original band ever made me 1/10th of what an average cover band made, even if it was 1000x more fun and we were playing for consistently bigger crowds for a fair span of time. But shows for 300 people that don't pay and the small cup of satisfaction won't put gasoline in the tour van or buy you any frozen burritos at the 7/11.Pretty much all the musicians I know that make a living out of it are in cover bands. Most of them tour non-stop during summer and they're pretty much free the rest of the year.
I could have gone that route too, but when pandemic hit all of them had a really hard time, so I opted to stay in a "lower profile" cover band with less gigs per year (so I could manage it with my day job). No regrets.
Honestly, I wouldn't trust my economic stability to a music band.
Now that I live in BFE, I can honestly say that no one here playing in a cover band is even making enough to make ends meet. There are a couple of pro musicians around, but they all do lessons, play in multiple bands, and have side jobs (like waiting tables or flipping burgers or delivering pizzas or whatever, non-music-related). I obviously don't know for sure, but, having played every venue available to play at in this area, I'd be willing to bet pretty much any odds that those side jobs are bringing in more money than the music-related stuff.
In larger markets, I don't know what it's like these days. Back in my musical prime, I'm pretty sure I could have easily squeaked out a living by touring and doing lessons, but it wasn't good enough to consider it a long-term career, and, from virtually everyone I've kept in touch with in that life, it's so much tougher now than it was back then. Having done a minimal amount of touring since I've moved, my isolated experience falls right in line with the hardships I've heard about.
Now, with the pandemic moved into the economic recovery phase, the promises from optimists that bands would be raking in cash hand over fist have not come to fruition. Although, there are opportunities out there, they aren't even as tempting as they were pre-pandemic.
Oh lord where to start.
They want you to work for free, endless demands to do this that and the other, demands to get first dibs on all your work and they'll add a credit to some random album that will never exist. And when you don't agree, various threats and god knows what. I had done with the studio gangsta thing by that stage. Trust me, I loved Easy E and NWA from back in the day, still spin Cypress and IC, Ren, etc, metal isn't my only musical love. So I thought would be working with professionals with a belief in the music itself aside from their circumstances. Nah, just a lot of BS and I had done with getting involved in whatever the current rapper scene was early on.
To contrast that, I have made backings for the standard singer/songwriter crowd. Never an issue with payment (I never really even charged that much), sometimes working for someone doing folio effects or bounces, everything was always straight down the line. It was just a lot more entitled and far too much work. I mainly operate on if you have a cool project and I can contribute to it, I don't ask for much.
For beats, at the time I was £20 for 3 minutes worth approximately, up or down depending on what the client wanted to showcase and I would throw in final mixing/mastering. Maybe I was too cheap? I figured if someone wanted to demonstrate that skillset of rapping, something I am miles from myself abilitywise, £20 to get something on tape would benefit both them and myself in terms of practising the craft. But I also don't want to rip off someone else's beat. So don't send me Tupac's stuff and say make it like that, send me a sample vocal and I'll make something cool for it, likely a couple of options. Choose one and I'll progress that. If none up to the task, no problem, no charge, I'm not the right guy.
The threats I got from two people in particular after I didn't want to work for free were personal in nature and that's when I was done. Whether someone's a studio gangster or does dirt for real, I have no interest in that world and never have done. When I get sent my home address along with some veiled threat of violence, £20 doesn't cut it and really no amount is worth that hassle.
I quit doing beats a good while back. While I still get the odd commission for folio mainly, I still release non metal music under a totally separate pseudonym, techno and electronica mostly. I get far more enjoyment off of that, get a little from Spotify and that's all there is to it. That's mainly superceded most of the paid work I used to do, mainly as paid work is available everywhere these days, hell even a kid with a couple of cracked plugins is touting their wares these days. Such things are no longer hard to come by. I'm too old to attempt to compete and deal with the BS.
These days, given my age I suppose and willingness to dedicate my free time, I primarily do low-key valve amplifier repair, write for any one of my band projects or the electronica stuff. I don't really like connecting the two, mainly as there are times I have reused melodies and rifflets in both projects, haha. No need to guild the lilly but that's mainly why I quit with the whole beats making thing. When it stopped being about music and got personal, I just noped out.
