ENGL (Powerball) Tubing/Mods Thread

[vanhendrix]

retubing V1 and V2 to lower gain preamp tubes is not a 'mod'.

unfortunately, the PCB construction method ENGL uses on their amps is very mod-unfriendly and unserviceable. basically, the larger components are literally glued to the PCB, and the layout is very tight with very small solder joints. therefore, actually modding the amp would be quite a pain the ass.

still, i'd start by modding the BIAS it so it can take EL34s and reducing the gain between stages by changing the plate resistors.

also, altering the tone stack and presence control would also help making it sound thicker/meatier

How is modifying one of the components of a device not a mod? However simple it may be

Also V1 and V2 are powertubes. We had a hell of a time getting this thread on track to figure out what we were all talking about before. Let's not get confused again

 

[aviel]

ok. i did it, just used shitty EHX, and it MAKES a difference.
at the begning i was happy, then i switched back to the 12ax7, and was lilke, what the hell, is the same with just less brightness. but then i switched again to the 12AT7, and shit, this brings the amp to life, much more tight, kicking. still a a bitt fizzy, but much more alive. really.

maybe its jusy the placebo effect.

also, EHX tubes have higher current so basiclly, EHX 12at7 should have more gain then a regular 12at7.

i will try to grab jj's and check it. maybe also changing v 5 v 7

 

[Pedrojoca]

ok. i did it, just used shitty EHX, and it MAKES a difference.
at the begning i was happy, then i switched back to the 12ax7, and was lilke, what the hell, is the same with just less brightness. but then i switched again to the 12AT7, and shit, this brings the amp to life, much more tight, kicking. still a a bitt fizzy, but much more alive. really.

maybe its jusy the placebo effect.

also, EHX tubes have higher current so basiclly, EHX 12at7 should have more gain then a regular 12at7.

i will try to grab jj's and check it. maybe also changing v 5 v 7

once again, i reccomend the TAD, i prefered it over the JJ 12at7, way richer on the midrange

 

[aviel]

gonna order those. how well do they ship tubes on ebay? dont we get them brocken ?

 

[Pedrojoca]

it's not ebay man, it's a website dedicated to tubes, it's called TAD, they actually make their own branded tubes. posted the link a while ago: 12AT7 / ECC81 TAD Premium Selected (symmetrisch/b - TAD Vorstufenröhren SELECTED

 

[aviel]

oh got you now. sorry for it. so you order your tubes from their? i see the shipping even inside europe is more expensive then 2 tubes..

 

[vanhendrix]

once again, i reccomend the TAD, i prefered it over the JJ 12at7, way richer on the midrange

I thought you'd be interested to know that I just found out that Mesa tubes are simply rebranded JJs, so we've been talking about the same thing all along

 

[Pedrojoca]

I thought you'd be interested to know that I just found out that Mesa tubes are simply rebranded JJs, so we've been talking about the same thing all along

but i don't use the JJ in V6 man, i use the TAD, you just quoted me saying that

 

[vanhendrix]

I know, but now we're in the same ballpark

 

[vanhendrix]

Well guys, I replaced my aging powertubes with Mesa 6L6GCs. Mine were almost 3 years old, and I wanted something that I could swap out myself without taking it to some jerkass tech.

Long story short, here are the results:

- Much less fizz. Up until I did the swap I was running my presence completely off, now I'm using the knob again!

- Maybe a touch less of the "processed" sound that people seem to talk about, but has never really bothered me.

Other than that, it sounds almost the same, which is good. Keep in mind I swapped my V6 back to the AX7 some time ago though.

 

[Pedrojoca]

Well guys, I replaced my aging powertubes with Mesa 6L6GCs. Mine were almost 3 years old, and I wanted something that I could swap out myself without taking it to some jerkass tech.

Long story short, here are the results:

- Much less fizz. Up until I did the swap I was running my presence completely off, now I'm using the knob again!

- Maybe a touch less of the "processed" sound that people seem to talk about, but has never really bothered me.

Other than that, it sounds almost the same, which is good. Keep in mind I swapped my V6 back to the AX7 some time ago though.

Yay, some news again finally. Dude what do you mean with not having to take it to a tech? didn't you have to bias it?

 

[vanhendrix]

Yay, some news again finally. Dude what do you mean with not having to take it to a tech? didn't you have to bias it?

No I did not. That was the important part to me really

The amp is fixed-bias (more or less) so as long as you're replacing the tubes with the same type (engl specifically told me ANY 6L6GC tubes) then you can get away without biasing. The amp has the tube monitoring system that'll shut bad tubes down, so I wasn't terribly scared about blowing something up.

I really needed something to reign in that out of control high end response though, I don't like having any of the knobs turned all the way off. This seems to have done the trick without altering much otherwise. Exactly what I wanted.

 

[Leec]

retubing V1 and V2 to lower gain preamp tubes is not a 'mod'.

unfortunately, the PCB construction method ENGL uses on their amps is very mod-unfriendly and unserviceable. basically, the larger components are literally glued to the PCB, and the layout is very tight with very small solder joints. therefore, actually modding the amp would be quite a pain the ass.

still, i'd start by modding the BIAS it so it can take EL34s and reducing the gain between stages by changing the plate resistors.

also, altering the tone stack and presence control would also help making it sound thicker/meatier

Loktide is absolutely right. Changing a preamp tube is not a 'mod'. It's simply changing the tubes. Just like changing strings from D'Addario to Ernie Ball is not modding your guitar.

I appreciate this thread and the effort involved, but without actual examples it's difficult to take such subjective discussions at their word. And when 50% of the authors is stating that Nickelback have good tone (Nickelback!!!), it's difficult to give too much weight to their words.

I don't want to be totally negative, though. There's some good information here, and it will hopefully get people into experimenting with their pre-amp tubes - something everyone should try; it's very easy, very cheap and can have a dramatic effect.

I've just scored a Powerball that appears to be completely stock, pre-amp wise. I'll be putting some well recorded (i.e, not camcorder microphone) demo clips online soon. And once I've played around with various tubes, I'll post up clips of those, too.

 

[Pedrojoca]

Loktide is absolutely right. Changing a preamp tube is not a 'mod'. It's simply changing the tubes. Just like changing strings from D'Addario to Ernie Ball is not modding your guitar.

I appreciate this thread and the effort involved, but without actual examples it's difficult to take such subjective discussions at their word. And when 50% of the authors is stating that Nickelback have good tone (Nickelback!!!), it's difficult to give too much weight to their words.

I don't want to be totally negative, though. There's some good information here, and it will hopefully get people into experimenting with their pre-amp tubes - something everyone should try; it's very easy, very cheap and can have a dramatic effect.

I've just scored a Powerball that appears to be completely stock, pre-amp wise. I'll be putting some well recorded (i.e, not camcorder microphone) demo clips online soon. And once I've played around with various tubes, I'll post up clips of those, too.

sorry for the misinformation man, feel kinda bad for it, but Nickelback , eww. No. I don't recall anyone talking about nickelback. But i mean it man, it does make a difference, you should definetly do it. thanks for posting though

 

[Leec]

It's not misinformation, dude. The only thing I disagreed with is calling the swapping out of tubes a 'mod'. That term when used about amps usually refers to some more significant wiring or circuit board changes.

No need to feel bad, either. What you and Vanhendrix have written here is clearly useful as a guide. I just think it could have been way more useful with clips to demonstrate these changes you're talking about when you're trying to catalogue them, as it were.

 

[vanhendrix]

Aww I had a big long post about how I thought this thread should be a guide. I guess it dissapeared when I couldn't get on the forums last night, but it was just explaining about how since these are such minute changes, posting clips would be pretty pointless. It's all about finding the best fit between tube choice and user. Any difference in the tubes could be easily masked/altered by the multitude of variables in recording clips.

The moral:
They're cheap, swap your own tubes. We've already explained which ones work. See how it sounds in your particular situation


That is all






P.s. I still consider it a mod

 

[spaghettipomodoro]

Alright so I'm going to hopefully get my hands on an ENGL Powerball 1, I've read the entire thread so I have a general idea of what preamp tubes to get (though any particular brand?)

But I have no idea what to do with the power tubes. :S Suggestions?

 

[Pedrojoca]

well, a lot of people love EL34s but you have to get the resistor modded, i think you can put 5881s in there and bias it to that, but i'm not sure, can anyone chime in?

If you plan on staying 6L6 as default, i say go Ruby 6l6, JJs are too dark.

 

[vanhendrix]

For powertubes, at the end of the day I just went with a brand felt I could trust (mesa). I feel as long as you keep with the 6L6GC-type that the amp wants, there's really no wrong answer. Once you get into rebasing/modding transistor nonsense, then you might see some huge differences depending on the tube type you want

 

[Mikeyprs]

Aight People! .. forum newbie here lol, I've recently become an owner of the Engl Powerball! (V1 I believe) and atm, I'm really liking the sounds of the amp on it's own, but at a practise session i recently had with the band.

I found myself getting buried in the mix, which may well have been my own fault come to think of it by running the ch3/4 gain around 6/7 and the master was around 4/5 ... or something like that anyway.. now I've never scooped my mid section either particularly in a show/practise session but it didn't seem to be enough?? the other guitarist in the band was using the studios marshall half-stack which seemed rather overpowering to say the least... (i guess it don't help that he really pushes the amp quite hard tbh...)

In any case... i'm interested in what has been said in this thread i.e tube swapping but would you guys say/agree that it would be wise to give the amp a couple more run throughs with the amp before tweaking incase it's a newbie error at play here??

Thanks,
Mike